ELDEN RING

ELDEN RING

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Power Sword Sep 10, 2023 @ 10:25am
You should not be able to fight Godskin Apostle on horseback...
It's a beautiful fight and hard if on foot, but on horseback you just skip his mechanics completely.
Like yeah, I know what you'll say "just don't fight him on horseback then"... but if so, why even try to balance games at all, if anyone who wants it harder can just impose rules on themselves?
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
potato Sep 10, 2023 @ 10:28am 
then don't fight him on horseback
Lynfinity Sep 10, 2023 @ 10:59am 
Originally posted by Power Sword:
It's a beautiful fight
...up until you realize he has some lightning-fast openers and follow-ups which a normal human being cannot reliably react to.

Also, the only time when you can fight him on horseback is in Atlus Plateau. Every other fight happens in a "No Torrent Allowed" area.
Sabaithal Sep 10, 2023 @ 11:21am 
Originally posted by Lynfinity:
Originally posted by Power Sword:
It's a beautiful fight
...up until you realize he has some lightning-fast openers and follow-ups which a normal human being cannot reliably react to.
This. Its why its not fun to fight the apostles in particular. It doesn't feel fair when I get hit with an opener (and subsequent combo) that I cannot see.

Less of a problem with nobles because their attack doesn't lead to a combo (nobles presence) but it has even less of a telegraph, which is to say it doesn't have one. One moment he is just staring at you, next moment you are airborne. However the timing with Noble attacks is far more consistent in general so they're easier to deal with once you catch the hang of it.

Really does reinforce the mentality of "try something besides dodging" for some enemies.
Last edited by Sabaithal; Sep 10, 2023 @ 11:31am
EF_Neo1st Sep 10, 2023 @ 11:29am 
Originally posted by Lynfinity:
Originally posted by Power Sword:
It's a beautiful fight
...up until you realize he has some lightning-fast openers and follow-ups which a normal human being cannot reliably react to.

Also, the only time when you can fight him on horseback is in Atlus Plateau. Every other fight happens in a "No Torrent Allowed" area.
I would say he is very casual to dodge everything, the fatty fast thrust attacks and the rolling meat-boulder are harder in that regard
Aasimar069 Sep 10, 2023 @ 12:04pm 
Let people play the way they want FFS
Mr_Blank Sep 10, 2023 @ 12:08pm 
No spoilers but there’s at least 3 instances where you don’t fight him on horseback lol
Krazy Wallet Sep 10, 2023 @ 1:19pm 
I prefer fighting the apostle compared to the noble. I don't think the apostle has any attacks that aren't telegraphed. The noble, however, has noble presence and I just don't see a windup for that.
Lynfinity Sep 10, 2023 @ 2:15pm 
Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:
I don't think the apostle has any attacks that aren't telegraphed.
https://youtu.be/V2aqkuxVfwk?si=VTwmQenKhlGC1xN-
Some of the worst offenders are:
- 9:25 and 16:26 (the second swipe in particular)
- 10:34, 14:09 and 14:40
- 11:36 and 12:13

You're not dodging these in melee range unless you have the ability to glimpse into the future or you have an insane reaction time.
RedEssence Sep 10, 2023 @ 2:37pm 
Originally posted by Lynfinity:
Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:
I don't think the apostle has any attacks that aren't telegraphed.
https://youtu.be/V2aqkuxVfwk?si=VTwmQenKhlGC1xN-
Some of the worst offenders are:
- 9:25 and 16:26 (the second swipe in particular)
- 10:34, 14:09 and 14:40
- 11:36 and 12:13

You're not dodging these in melee range unless you have the ability to glimpse into the future or you have an insane reaction time.

The swipes at 9:25 and 16:26 are clearly telegraphed when they are coming, you can easily dodge these, he always does that weird spin up animation before launching them and he always does the same two swipes

The slash at 10:34, 14:09 and 14:40 are followups, once you learn when they can happen you can dodge them easily

I will agree that the swipes at 11:36 and 12:13 are lightning fast and difficult to dodge
Last edited by RedEssence; Sep 10, 2023 @ 2:40pm
Krazy Wallet Sep 10, 2023 @ 3:16pm 
Originally posted by Lynfinity:
Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:
I don't think the apostle has any attacks that aren't telegraphed.
https://youtu.be/V2aqkuxVfwk?si=VTwmQenKhlGC1xN-
Some of the worst offenders are:
- 9:25 and 16:26 (the second swipe in particular)
- 10:34, 14:09 and 14:40
- 11:36 and 12:13

You're not dodging these in melee range unless you have the ability to glimpse into the future or you have an insane reaction time.

I've dodged these attacks several times. I had to learn his movesets as my first playthrough wandered into Dragonbarrow at level 40-50 (hard to remember now). Being familiar with souls titles, I have a philosophy of beating bosses as I find them. He had many attacks that could one-shot me at that time, several combos that would kill me such as the one at 9:25. It's important to remember that dodging isn't the only reaction. Both when you dodge and where you dodge are also important - other times you just need to book it and run.

Many bosses have weaknesses of either rolling into them, or at an angle slightly past them. If you roll backwards on medium roll for 9:25, the second slash is likely to clip you. If you roll forward and left, or if you roll backwards on light roll (I believe), the second attack will miss.

14:09 literally has him pull his arm back in a windup. Not sure what more of a telegraph you want. It's quick, but it's dodgeable if you're looking for the tells. Same thing for 11:36. He draws his hand backwards and behind him as he winds up.

This is true of most video games, but I find especially true for souls games - if you want to get better, record your playthroughs and re-watch them. If a boss is giving you trouble, practice on them for 30 minutes (don't kill them), and watch the recording to see where they are hitting you the most. You'll surprise yourself on how many tells you're missing, reacting too slowly, or reacting in an incorrect manner.

Compare that to the windup of Noble Presence at the very start of this video (language warning):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-QaHDtisj8

There's just an audio notice with a slight, backwards stretch. To my knowledge, the best way to "dodge" this attack is to stay far enough away to not trigger that response.
EF_Neo1st Sep 10, 2023 @ 3:16pm 
Originally posted by RedEssence:
Originally posted by Lynfinity:
https://youtu.be/V2aqkuxVfwk?si=VTwmQenKhlGC1xN-
Some of the worst offenders are:
- 9:25 and 16:26 (the second swipe in particular)
- 10:34, 14:09 and 14:40
- 11:36 and 12:13

You're not dodging these in melee range unless you have the ability to glimpse into the future or you have an insane reaction time.

The swipes at 9:25 and 16:26 are clearly telegraphed when they are coming, you can easily dodge these, he always does that weird spin up animation before launching them and he always does the same two swipes

The slash at 10:34, 14:09 and 14:40 are followups, once you learn when they can happen you can dodge them easily

I will agree that the swipes at 11:36 and 12:13 are lightning fast and difficult to dodge
9:25 - player attacked when should not, wait for enemy to attack dont go attacking, it becomes a gamble of sorts and he had bad luck
16:26 - at 16:26 boss started atacking (again, another bad luck from a "gamble", wait for boss to attack first then you attack)

10:34 - after the attack the boss did, expect the other attack too, it is a free hit if he had dodged into the boss and was behind
14:09 - boss clearly had not finished the combo
14:40 - at 14:39 it is clear the boss is going to attack, but player decides to attack anyway, basically asking to get hit

So yes, it is all fault of the player there

11:36 - attack once and leave, dont overdo. He overdid and got punished.
12:13 - he was too far away what made he lose a bit of time until he could land the attack (his dodge was sort of late but there is a kind of situation hard to not get hit, reason why I often stay closer to the boss, not that far away)
Wild Sep 10, 2023 @ 3:16pm 
Originally posted by Power Sword:
Like yeah, I know what you'll say "just don't fight him on horseback then"... but if so, why even try to balance games at all, if anyone who wants it harder can just impose rules on themselves?
That’s how these fromsoft games, and a lot of others, have been designed now, with these scaleable difficulties.
You definitely have to have some discipline, to not just use the strongest thing available to you, but it’s so much more enjoyable when you find your goldilocks zone of difficulty.
Mr_Blank Sep 10, 2023 @ 3:37pm 
Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:
I prefer fighting the apostle compared to the noble. I don't think the apostle has any attacks that aren't telegraphed. The noble, however, has noble presence and I just don't see a windup for that.
Haven’t seen you In Awhile man good to see ya :steamhappy:
Lynfinity Sep 10, 2023 @ 3:59pm 
Originally posted by RedEssence:
The swipes at 9:25 and 16:26 are clearly telegraphed when they are coming, you can easily dodge these, he always does that weird spin up animation before launching them and he always does the same two swipes
The first swipe is telegraphed, yes. The second one comes out way too quick. You can outspace it, but if you're anywhere in melee range - you get hit 100%.
Originally posted by RedEssence:
The slash at 10:34, 14:09 and 14:40 are followups, once you learn when they can happen you can dodge them easily.
It can be a follow-up and can be not, as seen in the third instance (14:40) where he just walks towards you and then BAM! Very difficult to react to. Unless you've been labbing Apostle for hours straight, I suppose.
Lynfinity Sep 10, 2023 @ 4:15pm 
Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:
Same thing for 11:36. He draws his hand backwards and behind him as he winds up.
For like half a second, maybe even less? Gee, sure sucks that my eyes and brain can't process this during the fight.
Originally posted by Krazy Wallet:
If you roll backwards on medium roll for 9:25, the second slash is likely to clip you. If you roll forward and left, or if you roll backwards on light roll (I believe), the second attack will miss.
The problem is that this frickin' second swipe seems to hit that sweet spot when i-frames from your first roll are gone, but you're still in recovery frames and can't dodge a second time fast enough. So, again, if you're in melee range, you get hit by it no matter the direction of your roll.

And if this problem is solved by switching to light roll to gain just enough distance to avoid it, Apostle basically inherits the "Malenia Syndrome" - too much of a b**ch on medium roll, easy work on light roll.
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Date Posted: Sep 10, 2023 @ 10:25am
Posts: 17