so, white mask varre wasn't really a bad guy?

[Potatochobit Lv3 pwrd Next Form]

I mean, you were the one who invaded him, right?
on the way to kill his boss?

[Sabaithal]

İlk olarak fauxpas tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sabaithal tarafından gönderildi:

Tarnished are not undead.

True, but its clear from the opening cutscenes that you, Gideon, Dung Eater, and Goldmask were all dead and was resurrected by the light of Grace and Fia admits she is straight out undead so the "main" ones that are Guided by Grace at least are resurrected beings.


Also at one of the churches Marika talks about the newly formed Taenished dying, but I'll have to see if I can find that clip.


So, not "undead" in the sense of Dark Souls, but living beings that died, were resurrected, and continue to do so as long as they continue to follow thier destiny as laid out by Grace.

OR, they just left the lands between after being banished, and are now coming back. Doesn't necessarily mean they were killed at any point. The game is kind of vague about that.

[fauxpas]

When resting at Third Church of Marika

Spoken echoes of Queen Marika linger here, as well. Shall I share them with you?
Very well. In Marika's own words. My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace.
With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die.
Well? Perhaps that might serve you in lieu of a maiden's guidance.
When resting at Church of Pilgrimage

Spoken echoes linger here. Words of Queen Makira, who vanished long ago. If you wish, I will share them with you.
In Marika's own words.
Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed.
Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring.
Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey.
When resting at the Grand Lift of Dectus Site of Grace

Spoken echoes of Queen Marika linger here as well. Shall I share them with you?
In Marika's own words. The Erdtree governs all. The choice is thine. Become one with the Order. Or divest thyself of it. To wallow at the fringes; a powerless upstart.

[fauxpas]

The game is actually pretty clear that the 'real' Tarnished, the ones being governed by Grace did in fact die, we see everyone's dead body (including yours) in the opening cutscenes being resurrected, Queen Marika tells them that they will very banished, die, and be resurrected in order to return stronger when she needs them.

[Sabaithal]

The problem with that is exactly what you just addressed. To "die" in this game doesn't mean the same thing it does in reality, that's "destined death". So strictly speaking they're still not really undead.

The actual undead in this game are the conventional walking corpses that try to bite your neck out when you get close. And those are bodies without souls, similar to Godwyn.

[fauxpas]

İlk olarak Sabaithal tarafından gönderildi:

The problem with that is exactly what you just addressed. To "die" in this game doesn't mean the same thing it does in reality, that's "destined death". So strictly speaking they're still not really undead.

The actual undead in this game are the conventional walking corpses that try to bite your neck out when you get close. And those are bodies without souls, similar to Godwyn.

Which is why I've never said Tarnished (except for Fia per her own story) are "Undead" and instead are resurrected people. It might be a subtle distinction, but an important one.

[paladin181]

İlk olarak ᴠ̅̅ɪ̅̅ᴘ̅̅ᴇ̅̅ʀ tarafından gönderildi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMTlk4IDYGk&t=4s :er_heart:

There's a lot of talking about Varre, but no evidence that he killed the player's maiden. A LOT of logic leaping here, like at the end when there are two possibilities. Not a very well supported theory.

[paladin181]

İlk olarak cybercybercybercyber4 tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak fauxpas tarafından gönderildi:

Umm ... Irina is killed by one of the rebelling mutants so that wouldn't affect anything.

how do you know that?

also follow up question: if you obtain the frenzy flame, before getting to the entrance of the earthtree, does melina still give you the rold medallion?

You can't. The entrance to the frenzied flame is sealed by Morgott, and you can't leave his arena until you rest at the site of grace and receive the medalion.

[GoreTiger]

İlk olarak fauxpas tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Sabaithal tarafından gönderildi:

Tarnished are not undead.

True, but its clear from the opening cutscenes that you, Gideon, Dung Eater, and Goldmask were all dead and was resurrected by the light of Grace and Fia admits she is straight out undead so the "main" ones that are Guided by Grace at least are resurrected beings.


Also at one of the churches Marika talks about the newly formed Taenished dying, but I'll have to see if I can find that clip.


So, not "undead" in the sense of Dark Souls, but living beings that died, were resurrected, and continue to do so as long as they continue to follow thier destiny as laid out by Grace.

I mean to be fair we /do/ die after we leave the church, don't we?
That whole scene with the light of grace touching us after we're thrown off the cliff, I always interpreted that as the tree bringing us back to life.

[GoreTiger]

Also what happens if you kill varre after we get the piece needed to reach mogh? Anything bad?

[LukeStuifZand]

İlk olarak Sabaithal tarafından gönderildi:

Its heavily implied the dead maiden at the chapel of anticipation, your maiden, was killed by him.

Wasn't that Finger Maiden actually Vyke's? Which is why his spirit defends that church?

[Sabaithal]

İlk olarak GoreTiger tarafından gönderildi:

I mean to be fair we /do/ die after we leave the church, don't we?
That whole scene with the light of grace touching us after we're thrown off the cliff, I always interpreted that as the tree bringing us back to life.

The tree is supposed to be the thing that kills you off to begin with. Its just not doing its job, which is why you can "Die" and not actually die (destined death).

[Sabaithal]

İlk olarak _Luke_ tarafından gönderildi:

Wasn't that Finger Maiden actually Vyke's? Which is why his spirit defends that church?

Different church, different maiden. There are two "dead maidens" you can find in the game.

[fauxpas]

İlk olarak GoreTiger tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak fauxpas tarafından gönderildi:

True, but its clear from the opening cutscenes that you, Gideon, Dung Eater, and Goldmask were all dead and was resurrected by the light of Grace and Fia admits she is straight out undead so the "main" ones that are Guided by Grace at least are resurrected beings.


Also at one of the churches Marika talks about the newly formed Taenished dying, but I'll have to see if I can find that clip.


So, not "undead" in the sense of Dark Souls, but living beings that died, were resurrected, and continue to do so as long as they continue to follow thier destiny as laid out by Grace.

I mean to be fair we /do/ die after we leave the church, don't we?
That whole scene with the light of grace touching us after we're thrown off the cliff, I always interpreted that as the tree bringing us back to life.

You die many times in the game since Fromsoft likes making the respawn mechanic in-universe lore (Which is both good and bad.), bit the opening cutscene after you make your character shows your 1st resurrection.


The lore is ... unclear ... on whether the scion actually kills you or not per the flask item description but I lean towards you didn't actually die that time.

[GoreTiger]

İlk olarak Sabaithal tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak GoreTiger tarafından gönderildi:

I mean to be fair we /do/ die after we leave the church, don't we?
That whole scene with the light of grace touching us after we're thrown off the cliff, I always interpreted that as the tree bringing us back to life.

The tree is supposed to be the thing that kills you off to begin with. Its just not doing its job, which is why you can "Die" and not actually die (destined death).

The tree doesn't control the scions tho, If anything it was sent by morgit or godrick to scout areas and collect tarnish for grafting.

İlk olarak fauxpas tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak GoreTiger tarafından gönderildi:

I mean to be fair we /do/ die after we leave the church, don't we?
That whole scene with the light of grace touching us after we're thrown off the cliff, I always interpreted that as the tree bringing us back to life.

You die many times in the game since Fromsoft likes making the respawn mechanic in-universe lore (Which is both good and bad.), bit the opening cutscene after you make your character shows your 1st resurrection.


The lore is ... unclear ... on whether the scion actually kills you or not per the flask item description but I lean towards you didn't actually die that time.

Considering whether you beat the scion or not you still fall off the cliff, we likely died. Especially if we're taking into account in-game fall mechanics.

[Coin]

İlk olarak Dollmaker tarafından gönderildi:

and is lead by a delusional creep

Who is literally inside his own brother. Wincest i guess.