Were it unnessecery to have your souls games character being immortal ?

[Uboa]

In other games , when you lost a battle , the game will assume that was never happened and only consider your best attemp as canon .
But in souls games always having your character being immortal as an exsuce to make him respawning again and again . But they do not actually do anything since everyone respawn , the bosses have their memory wiped , no body trying to destroy your bonfire . And some one like Genichiro asking about his grandpa health , get supprised by Wolf's resurrection power 50 times in a row .

[Groen90]

It's easy to nitpick on these things with how much the lore in these games ties in nicely with the gameplay, but sometimes you just have to draw a line and say "yeah, that's just how the game works"... not everything needs a lore reason, but that's just how I see it.

[Uboa]

Originally posted by Groen90:

It's easy to nitpick on these things with how much the lore in these games ties in nicely with the gameplay, but sometimes you just have to draw a line and say "yeah, that's just how the game works"... not everything needs a lore reason, but that's just how I see it.

I can see that , but every souls games have that , just wonder if the story was like Ashen one , chosen undead , Wolf , hunter have never acttually died or lose any fight , they are just barely survive to the end , would that negatively affect the overall game ?

[Elbonris]

Originally posted by Uboa:

Originally posted by Groen90:

It's easy to nitpick on these things with how much the lore in these games ties in nicely with the gameplay, but sometimes you just have to draw a line and say "yeah, that's just how the game works"... not everything needs a lore reason, but that's just how I see it.

I can see that , but every souls games have that , just wonder if the story was like Ashen one , chosen undead , Wolf , hunter have never acttually died or lose any fight , they are just barely survive to the end , would that negatively affect the overall game ?

If the player character never dies the canon is the same, outside of any cutscene deaths.

For souls lore logic, one way to think if it is that every undead, ashen one or whatever that uses a bonfire resets the world, just like the player.
But each person has their own world. Think multiverse or Rick and Morty style.
It's the same reason co op works on lore.

But also, it's just a way to try and make it more lore based instead of just "when yo. Die you respawn here because it's a video game"

[Sabaithal]

This argument was made back when Ds1 was still hot, so I'd look there for the response to it.

Short answer, this way, with no "game over" state, it doesn't take the player out of the world even when they fail. Also its likely most people will just reload a save after a "game over" anyway, so what does it matter?

If you're talking about self-imposed ironman runs, you can do that either way.

[WastingSanity]

So are you just looking for a Dark Souls that has a Nemesis system like Shadow of Mordor/War?

[Target]

Well Seath uses your respawn mechanic to kidnap you. But generally the lore half works and you have to meet the game half way. If the bosses are hollow and undying, why do they die permanently when most other undead keep comming back, including the player? Well no one wants to re-fight all the bosses every time they heal. Maybe taking their boss soul stops them from respawning but it seems to mostly be a game mechanic more so then part of the story.

What I want to know is why do hollow NPCs not come back after you kill them, they dont have boss souls and you only turn hollow after turning undead, so why dont they come back?

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

This is how most games are.

There are some games that acknowledge death; maybe you'd like to check those instead.

[Call Sign: Raven]

Kind of a weird criticism, since it's explained you are cursed with undeath, but okay.

[Revalopod]

Originally posted by Harrison Ford:

Kind of a weird criticism, since it's explained you are cursed with undeath, but okay.

kind of a weird comment, since that's not even their point; they literally stated you are immortal, and are asking what's the point of it, and why it's the same way for every souls game.

[Revalopod]

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

This is how most games are.

There are some games that acknowledge death; maybe you'd like to check those instead.

they're asking a question about the point of a certain mechanic, showing an interest in dicussing the game and it's mechanics, and you suddenly leap to the conclusion that they should play a different game instead? ok

[Revalopod]

I think it makes the game much more sensible and believable. Tell me, if deaths weren't canon, how would some little rotting zombie guy be able to defeat innumerable powerful giants and epic dragons and gods and monstrosities, etc all consecutively without ever being bested once? that would be classic Hollywood plot armour which is lazy and unbelievable, while an immortality mechanic at least adds a sense of plausabiltiy to our character's triumphs in the game.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Originally posted by Revalopod:

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

This is how most games are.

There are some games that acknowledge death; maybe you'd like to check those instead.

they're asking a question about the point of a certain mechanic, showing an interest in dicussing the game and it's mechanics, and you suddenly leap to the conclusion that they should play a different game instead? ok

They are asking a question that reveals their preference, as well as their ignorance about how the vast majority of games function. Yes, it's very reasonable to suggest that other games may be better suited to their fancy.

One of the biggest problems with people on steam or reddit or whatever is when they feel compelled to play games in which they're not interested.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Originally posted by Revalopod:

Originally posted by Harrison Ford:

Kind of a weird criticism, since it's explained you are cursed with undeath, but okay.

kind of a weird comment, since that's not even their point; they literally stated you are immortal, and are asking what's the point of it, and why it's the same way for every souls game.

Thematically, the point of it is that the character is cursed with undeath.

Mechanically, it's literally the same for every single video game. When I fall into a hole as Mario, I'm allowed to play the game still. My character doesn't die permanently. The game doesn't just shut down foever.

[Revalopod]

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

Originally posted by Revalopod:

kind of a weird comment, since that's not even their point; they literally stated you are immortal, and are asking what's the point of it, and why it's the same way for every souls game.

Thematically, the point of it is that the character is cursed with undeath.

Mechanically, it's literally the same for every single video game. When I fall into a hole as Mario, I'm allowed to play the game still. My character doesn't die permanently. The game doesn't just shut down foever.

canonically, you don't die hundreds of times in mario (I'm guessing, idk any lore) or most games for that matter.

[Vechernyaya]

I agree with the OP, this game mechanic is what make me unable to play Souls like games and I came here to check if that would again be the case with this game.

In fact it's not the mechanic itself, it's the fact that failure and death of the player are intra-diegetic, in my view, this way of making the character immortal kill the stakes : instead of telling the story of a hero, where the player fails sometime, but not the character, those games are telling the story of a character that can fail 329 times, or even 2973 times, but in the end they will prevail because after a sufficient number of tries, you will end up succeeding, even by sheer luck.

I don't even understand how DS1 can be undertitled "Prepare to die edition" when there is litteraly no death in the game (in my definition of death : becoming inanimated as opposed to having the appearance of a zombi but continuing your life).