THE DIALOGUE HAS SOME PROBLEMS!

[ultimatesuperman20]

I like the game for the most part. Unfortunately I've run into a problem that's not that big a deal but annoying enough that I think it's worth mentioning. Dialogue is REALLY stupid and doesn't match the timeline of events.

If you've played the game you know what I'm talking about. LITERALLY every single time I die I always talk to everyone in the house I'm able to speak with. I wanna be sure I don't miss out on any story bits or chances to improve my bound with someone. The problem is people are constantly saying stupid lines that make no sense regarding how my runs are going. I literally beat Hades and people are like, durrrrrrrrr so you finally made it to Elysium? Um ya dumbass I made it there like 5 runs ago!

Characters will constantly act as if I've never been somewhere or haven't cleared a certain level and it's annoying as hell considering the fact that I talk to them EVERY SINGLE TIME I come back from a run! There's no excuse here. I also HATE the dialogue sometimes. Hades especially. His whole, "Oh you don't understand BOY" shtick is annoying and repetitive as hell. Other characters will do the same but Hades is the worst. He'll also keep saying lines like this.

(1) You're foolish boy
(2) abandon this foolish quest boy
(3) You have no understanding of x boy
(4) Do not ask me about x again boy

This dialogue is repetitive, unimaginative and annoying. I've beat his ass several times and his dialogue BARELY changes. Apparently Hades has brain damage cause he acts like quest to leave will never be achieved when I've already ESCAPED 10 TIMES!

In summation I'll say this. I feel like there's two sides to their writing. One side is good and interesting, the other is annoying, repetitive and disjunctive. I'm constantly hearing dialogue that I should've heard HOURS earlier. They talk about me defeating a boss as if it's the first time when that's like the 15th time I've beaten it XD. I like the game but the dialogue would REALLY be improved if someone rearranged so it matches what the hell is actually going on.

[C4RNIVOR3]

You're misunderstanding how the dialogue system works. The dialogue is not always immediately reactive to your actions. There are two primary dialogue pools the game uses, the unique dialogue for all of the game's narration and character development, and recycled dialogue for when there is no current unique dialogue to go through. The game checks that you've met the requirements for unique dialogue, and enters that into the pool of potential dialogue that may come up when you speak with a character. There is no way to guarantee any specific piece of dialogue comes up, though certain conversations will have higher priority. It's because of how this works that you may end up getting dialogue at weird points, because you've previously met a requirement, and that dialogue simply hadn't cycled through yet.

[ultimatesuperman20]

Originally posted by C4RNIVOR3:

You're misunderstanding how the dialogue system works. The dialogue is not always immediately reactive to your actions. There are two primary dialogue pools the game uses, the unique dialogue for all of the game's narration and character development, and recycled dialogue for when there is no current unique dialogue to go through. The game checks that you've met the requirements for unique dialogue, and enters that into the pool of potential dialogue that may come up when you speak with a character. There is no way to guarantee any specific piece of dialogue comes up, though certain conversations will have higher priority. It's because of how this works that you may end up getting dialogue at weird points, because you've previously met a requirement, and that dialogue simply hadn't cycled through yet.

Nothing you said invalidates anything I said. You just info bombed me on how the system works. I'm sorry dude but explaining to me why these problems exist doesn't change the fact that they exist. If their current system is resulting in these problems they should've changed the system.

[C4RNIVOR3]

I never said nor implied it invalidates anything, and it's valid to point out because a lot of people don't know how the dialogue works and for the most part expect reactions to be instantaneous. Dialogue coming a little bit late is weird but nothing game breaking. In my opinion much of this is a nitpick.

[Nibbie]

I mean, what are the other options? I think its just you never get all that dialogue ever, or you get it all at once, and I don't see either being an upgrade. Also remember that not everyone progresses at the same rate. I don't know how fast you beat the game, but it may have been faster than most people, so you had less time to get more 'beginner' dialogue out of the way in a timeframe that makes sense.

[ultimatesuperman20]

Originally posted by Nibbie:

I mean, what are the other options? I think its just you never get all that dialogue ever, or you get it all at once, and I don't see either being an upgrade. Also remember that not everyone progresses at the same rate. I don't know how fast you beat the game, but it may have been faster than most people, so you had less time to get more 'beginner' dialogue out of the way in a timeframe that makes sense.

I'll respond to both your statements but I don't know if you can quote two people at once lol

The point I was making in my initial comment was to say there's a problem with the dialogue system in Hades. C4RNIVOR3 responded by saying I, "misunderstood how the dialogue system worked". I'm sorry but you were clearly trying to invalidate my initial statement with your response to at least some extent. I don't mind you having a different opinion so there's no need to back peddle lol

Nibbie, your comment is kinda confusing honestly. I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I'm guessing you don't care that much, but if you do I'd ask you restate your problem with my discussion more clearly because I'm not sure what you're talking about and I don't want to respond with foggy information.

[myhr2]

Meh, ymmv. I find the dialogue to be genius. Yes, it can be out of order if you're performing better than what is expected, but if you take it as a pool of dialogue and not linear discussions, then the goal becomes seeing how deep the pool is, how many variations there is, instead of following things chronogically. So yea, I disagree, and think you have a problem with non-linear narration.

[ultimatesuperman20]

Originally posted by myhr2:

Meh, ymmv. I find the dialogue to be genius. Yes, it can be out of order if you're performing better than what is expected, but if you take it as a pool of dialogue and not linear discussions, then the goal becomes seeing how deep the pool is, how many variations there is, instead of following things chronogically. So yea, I disagree, and think you have a problem with non-linear narration.

I dialogue is really good in some places. Honestly there's so much freaking dialogue it's insane, and I appreciate the dedication. Since you're cool with the chronological disorder of dialogue I'm not sure what else I can say other than I'M NOT! lol the actual gameplay is pretty fun though so I'd still recommend the game.

[Fourlamas]

You get new unique stuff with ! and big !, otherwise yes you get same/similiar lines every time, its not the games fault you cant get the hint.

[Minneyar]

What you're missing is that the developers, and most of the people here, don't consider this to be a problem. It's just an inevitability in a game like this where you have a huge amount of dialogue that can be conditionally triggered in a non-linear fashion.

The other alternative would be for the game to just skip dialogue that becomes "invalidated" because you passed some other trigger before you heard it, and permanently missing dialogue in a game that can take hundreds of hours to fully complete would be a far worse problem.

[YinYin]

Hades does not want to acknowledge or talk about your achievements down in the house. His behaviour there is a core aspect of the story. Other characters will reference it. And it will still change over time. He just takes the longest among all to change even the slightest.

The rest ... well information doesn't travel and reach everyone at the same speed. And Zagreus seems to be too modest at times, not bothering to correct people on how far he got/reacting to something else of the conversation instead.

If there is something truly out of order (like a character congratulating you for getting out and then later congratulating you for finally reaching Elysium), that's an actual problem. Them being late on information, not so much.

edit: and yeah, if dialogue becomes repetitive to you - stick to characters with exclamation marks only - those without are pure repetitive filler (but I don't think they actually come up before you've exhausted the story dialogue for the character ...?)

[ultimatesuperman20]

Originally posted by Minneyar:

What you're missing is that the developers, and most of the people here, don't consider this to be a problem. It's just an inevitability in a game like this where you have a huge amount of dialogue that can be conditionally triggered in a non-linear fashion.

The other alternative would be for the game to just skip dialogue that becomes "invalidated" because you passed some other trigger before you heard it, and permanently missing dialogue in a game that can take hundreds of hours to fully complete would be a far worse problem.

I agree that most people don't consider this a problem. The issue is that just because you're/I'm in the minority doesn't mean there's not a problem here. I also don't agree with this ridiculous idea that there's NO WAY to fix this issue and you just gotta deal with it. It's 100% fixable and I don't buy for a second that the dialogue system is somehow stuck and unchangeable.

I realize the games already out and most people love it, I like it too. I know it's too late to change the dialogue now, but if there's ANY problem with a game the customers should bring it up so there's a micro chance it'll be fixed for the next game. You may not think it's a problem but I do, it's as simple as that.

I don't like the chronologically disordered dialogue or the simply poorly written dialogue. Meg acting like she'll kick my ass after I've beaten her 30 times is stupid and annoying. You guys need to take off your blindfolds and stop ignoring this flaw just because the rest of the game is so good lol

[Morphic]

Originally posted by ultimatesuperman20:

It's 100% fixable and I don't buy for a second that the dialogue system is somehow stuck and unchangeable.

It would require an entire rework of the system to get what you want. I doubt the Devs would do that to please a very small minority of people.

Originally posted by ultimatesuperman20:

You may not think it's a problem but I do, it's as simple as that.

Okay, great. However, it is a small problem and the majority of people playing the game do not see it as a problem. Or if they do, they view it as an acceptable problem that stems from a dynamic system than a static system. IMO, I'd rather have a dynamic system with minor flaws than a static system.

Originally posted by ultimatesuperman20:

I don't like the chronologically disordered dialogue or the simply poorly written dialogue. Meg acting like she'll kick my ass after I've beaten her 30 times is stupid and annoying. You guys need to take off your blindfolds and stop ignoring this flaw just because the rest of the game is so good lol

Meg consistently acts that way... because that's her job. She is supposed to kill you and prevent you from progressing. Even when you max her affinity, she'll still act that way for the most part because she wants to keep up the pretense you two are enemies and she is doing her best to stop you. It doesn't matter she fails, what matters is it looks like she is doing her best.

If she didn't act that way, Hades would get rid of her or punish her for not doing her job. As opposed to being disappointed and frustrated she sucks at her job.(Though she has other duties aside from stopping Zagreus, so since she does well in those Hades isn't about to get rid of her.)

Maybe you need to take off your "Personal Bias" glasses and stop focusing on a single issue and letting it ruin your experience. IMO, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[ultimatesuperman20]

Originally posted by Morphic:

Originally posted by ultimatesuperman20:

It's 100% fixable and I don't buy for a second that the dialogue system is somehow stuck and unchangeable.

It would require an entire rework of the system to get what you want. I doubt the Devs would do that to please a very small minority of people.

Originally posted by ultimatesuperman20:

You may not think it's a problem but I do, it's as simple as that.

Okay, great. However, it is a small problem and the majority of people playing the game do not see it as a problem. Or if they do, they view it as an acceptable problem that stems from a dynamic system than a static system. IMO, I'd rather have a dynamic system with minor flaws than a static system.

Originally posted by ultimatesuperman20:

I don't like the chronologically disordered dialogue or the simply poorly written dialogue. Meg acting like she'll kick my ass after I've beaten her 30 times is stupid and annoying. You guys need to take off your blindfolds and stop ignoring this flaw just because the rest of the game is so good lol

Meg consistently acts that way... because that's her job. She is supposed to kill you and prevent you from progressing. Even when you max her affinity, she'll still act that way for the most part because she wants to keep up the pretense you two are enemies and she is doing her best to stop you. It doesn't matter she fails, what matters is it looks like she is doing her best.

If she didn't act that way, Hades would get rid of her or punish her for not doing her job. As opposed to being disappointed and frustrated she sucks at her job.(Though she has other duties aside from stopping Zagreus, so since she does well in those Hades isn't about to get rid of her.)

Maybe you need to take off your "Personal Bias" glasses and stop focusing on a single issue and letting it ruin your experience. IMO, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

To be clear, I don't care that Meg keeps fighting you even after you've crushed her a million times. My problem is they didn't edit the dialogue enough to reflect your situation. Her saying things like, "your not making it past me" or "your journey ends here" etc makes NO SENSE when you've beaten freaking Hades at this point.

So again, I don't care that she keeps trying to fight you. I only care about the bad dialogue they give her even after you've shown that you're undeniably stronger than her in every way. Hades demands she try and fight/stop me every run I make, FINE but I highly doubt part of his orders were, MAKE SURE YOU ACT REALLY SNARKY AND FULL OF CONFIDENCE EVERY TIME YOU FIGHT HIM! EVEN AFTER HE'S BEAT YOU 30 TIMES! lol

[The Devil]

You know this game Isn't specifically a dating simulator right? Sometimes you just have to get past the fact that it is indeed a game and games are programs.

[ultimatesuperman20]

Originally posted by Roronoa Zoro:

You know this game Isn't specifically a dating simulator right? Sometimes you just have to get past the fact that it is indeed a game and games are programs.

Nothing about what I've said indicates I thought this was a dating sim lolz The actual gameplay/combat is good. I'm talking about my issue with the dialogue. You should read my comment before responding because it seems you just read the title before posting lol