Total War: WARHAMMER III

Total War: WARHAMMER III

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Are Chaos Dwarfs based on a real world culture?
They believe they've been chosen by their god and all other races exist only to be enslaved and exploited for their benefit. Are they based on a real world culture like the Bretonnians, Cathay and the Empire are?
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Beiträge 3145 von 59
Toblm 21. März 2023 um 17:02 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rianne:
Can you people for ONCE not devolve these kinds of threads into discrimination?
Far, far, far to late for that.
zacharyb 21. März 2023 um 17:03 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rianne:
Can you people for ONCE not devolve these kinds of threads into discrimination?

Are we still allowed to hate on Bretonnia?
chaos dwarfs are based on ancient mesopotamia. this jew stuff is just racist bs and nothing more.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von IA:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von dulany67:
Americans were definitely not innocent in that time period, but the US is less than 300 years old.

Do you believe the entire history of world slavery kicked off with the founding of the US?

I'm not talking about Americans.

careful bro ur in the ban zone \o
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Lord Humungus; 21. März 2023 um 17:30
Maximvs 21. März 2023 um 17:38 
The closest are the Assyrians and Babylons...
Stranger 21. März 2023 um 18:25 
I'd say no, if anything they're just an evil version of existing dawrfs, which is essentially what they are, I'm not knocking on them, I do love chaos dwarfs from what I've seen, and also a fan of the dark iron dwarfs in wow.

If anything they're just an interesting take on the dwarven races with evil characteristics/aesthetics.
epicbod 21. März 2023 um 18:27 
Babylonian Redanaite and the Skullroad.. I mean Silk Road 'labor' trade. Gotta keep a steady flow of 'labor' to Baa.. I mean Hashut the Father of Darkness, who also happens to look like a Bull God.

"Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr, orders that a thousand swords be made of good black iron, a thousand corselets of ruddy bronze, a thousand arrowheads of 5 shekels of steel and ten thousand of 2 shekels, and that this be delivered to the Fortress of Zharr when the moon is full. Let it be known that Zhatan plunders to the west and returns within the month with slaves for the service of Hashut. So say I, Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr, Glory to Zhatan, Glory to Ghorth the Cruel, All praise Hashut Father of Darkness."

—Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr (Direct quote for 5th Ed Battle Book)

There ya go laddie.
Toblm 21. März 2023 um 18:39 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von epicbod:

"Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr, orders that a thousand swords be made of good black iron, a thousand corselets of ruddy bronze, a thousand arrowheads of 5 shekels of steel and ten thousand of 2 shekels, and that this be delivered to the Fortress of Zharr when the moon is full. Let it be known that Zhatan plunders to the west and returns within the month with slaves for the service of Hashut. So say I, Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr, Glory to Zhatan, Glory to Ghorth the Cruel, All praise Hashut Father of Darkness."

—Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr (Direct quote for 5th Ed Battle Book)

There ya go laddie.
Which you think proves what?
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Toblm; 21. März 2023 um 18:40
Toblm 21. März 2023 um 18:56 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von IA:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von epicbod:
Babylonian Redanaite and the Skullroad.. I mean Silk Road 'labor' trade. Gotta keep a steady flow of 'labor' to Baa.. I mean Hashut the Father of Darkness, who also happens to look like a Bull God.

"Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr, orders that a thousand swords be made of good black iron, a thousand corselets of ruddy bronze, a thousand arrowheads of 5 shekels of steel and ten thousand of 2 shekels, and that this be delivered to the Fortress of Zharr when the moon is full. Let it be known that Zhatan plunders to the west and returns within the month with slaves for the service of Hashut. So say I, Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr, Glory to Zhatan, Glory to Ghorth the Cruel, All praise Hashut Father of Darkness."

—Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr (Direct quote for 5th Ed Battle Book)

There ya go laddie.

Jesus Christ that's a lot of "coincidences".

> the bovine fire god that demands sacrifices (Hashut = Moloch)
> shekels
> golems

From the wiki:
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Zhatan_the_Black

I thought the guy who started this thread was just trolling, but it seems that Chorf lore was inspired by ancient semites.
It is. But thats what everyone who actually listed a culture has said. Carthage, Phoenicia, along with much of Mesopotamia were Semetic cultures. No need for anti-Semitic tropes.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Toblm; 21. März 2023 um 18:57
peremptor 21. März 2023 um 19:04 
It is what it is there's history and then there's what really happened. Obviously the good guys always win. Enjoy the stories.
Ursprünglich geschrieben von IA:
Ursprünglich geschrieben von epicbod:
Babylonian Redanaite and the Skullroad.. I mean Silk Road 'labor' trade. Gotta keep a steady flow of 'labor' to Baa.. I mean Hashut the Father of Darkness, who also happens to look like a Bull God.

"Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr, orders that a thousand swords be made of good black iron, a thousand corselets of ruddy bronze, a thousand arrowheads of 5 shekels of steel and ten thousand of 2 shekels, and that this be delivered to the Fortress of Zharr when the moon is full. Let it be known that Zhatan plunders to the west and returns within the month with slaves for the service of Hashut. So say I, Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr, Glory to Zhatan, Glory to Ghorth the Cruel, All praise Hashut Father of Darkness."

—Zhatan the Black, Commander of the Tower of Zharr (Direct quote for 5th Ed Battle Book)

There ya go laddie.

Jesus Christ that's a lot of "coincidences".

> the bovine fire god that demands sacrifices (Hashut = Moloch)
> shekels
> golems

From the wiki:
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Zhatan_the_Black

I thought the guy who started this thread was just trolling, but it seems that Chorf lore was inspired by ancient semites.

The Chaos Dwarfs consider all life other than that of their own kind to have value only as raw resource and fitting sacrifice, and to them the muscle and sinew, and even the souls of those that bow and scrape at a gesture of their iron-shod hands and cringe before the stroke of their steel-barbed whips are no more than a commodity to be amassed, exploited and spent.

Pretty much taken from talmud and how it describes the treatment of "cattle" (slaves).

Chorfs are also accompanied by hobgoblins (mongol goblins), which is an analogy towards khazarian asiatic jews (mongolic tribes that converted to judaism).
Have the Jews hurt you in some way?

Khazarian Jews didn't exist.

About the slavery:
Broadly, the Biblical and Talmudic laws tended to consider slavery a form of contract between persons, theoretically reducible to voluntary slavery, unlike chattel slavery, where the enslaved person is legally rendered the personal property (chattel) of the slave owner. Hebrew slavery was prohibited during the Rabbinic era for as long as the Temple in Jerusalem is not reconstructed (i.e., the last two millennia). Although not prohibited, Jewish ownership of non-Jewish slaves was constrained by Rabbinic authorities since non-Jewish slaves were to be offered conversion to Judaism during their first 12-months term as slaves. If accepted, the slaves were to become Jews, hence redeemed immediately. If rejected, the slaves were to be sold to non-Jewish owners. Accordingly, the Jewish law produced a constant stream of Jewish converts with previous slave experience. Additionally, Jews were required to redeem Jewish slaves from non-Jewish owners, making them a privileged enslavement item, albeit temporary. The combination has made Jews less likely to participate in enslavement and slave trade.

In the early Common Era, the regulations concerning slave-ownership by Jews underwent an extensive expansion and codification within the Talmud.[which?][32] The precise issues that necessitated a clarification to the laws is still up for debate. The majority of current scholarly opinion holds that pressures to assimilate during the late Roman to early medieval period resulted in an attempt by Jewish communities to reinforce their own identities by drawing distinctions between their practices and the practices of non-Jews.[33][34] One author, however, has proposed that they could include factors such as ownership of non-Canaanite slaves, the continuing practice of owning Jewish slaves, or conflicts with Roman slave-ownership laws.[32] Thus, the Babylonian Talmud (redacted in 500 CE) contains an extensive set of laws governing slavery, which is more detailed than found in the Torah.

The major change found in the Talmud's slavery laws was that a single set of rules, with a few exceptions, governs both Jewish slaves and non-Jewish slaves.[23][35] Another change was that the distinction between Hebrew and non-Hebrew slaves began to diminish as the Talmud expanded during this period. This included an expanded set of obligations the owner incurred toward the slave as well as codifying the process for manumission (the freeing from slavery). It also included a large set of conditions, that allowed or required manumission to include requirements for education of slaves, expanding disability manumission, and in cases of religious conversion or necessity.[4][23][35][obsolete source][36][37][38] These restrictions were based on the Biblical injunction to treat slaves well with the reinforcement of the memory of Egyptian slavery which Jews were urged to remember by their scriptural texts.[39] However, historian Josephus wrote that the seven-year automatic release was still in effect if the slavery was a punishment for a crime the slave committed (as opposed to voluntary slavery due to poverty).[40] In addition, the notion of Canaanite slaves from the Jewish Bible is expanded to all non-Jewish slaves.[41]

Significant effort is given in the Talmud to address the property rights of slaves. While the Torah only refers to a slave's specific ability to collect gleanings, Talmudic sources interpret this commandment to include the right to own property more generally, and even "purchase" a portion of their own labor from the master. Hezser notes the often confusing mosaic of Talmudic laws distinguishes between finding property during work and earning property as a result of work.[42][43][44][45] While the Talmud affirmed that self-redemption of slaves (Jewish or not) was always permitted, it noted that conditionless manumission by the owner was generally a violation of legal precept.[46][obsolete source] The Talmud however, also included a varied list of circumstances and conditions that overrode this principle and mandated manumission. Conditions such as ill-treatment, oral promise, marriage to a free-woman, escape, inclusion in religious ceremony, and desire to visit the Holy Land all required the master to provide the slave with a deed of manumission, presented to him with witnesses. Failure to comply would result in excommunication.[46]
SBA77 21. März 2023 um 22:51 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von HuffingJenkem:
Are Chaos Dwarfs based on a real world culture?
Aesthetically Mesopatamian ones but that's about it.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von SBA77; 21. März 2023 um 22:56
MrSoul 21. März 2023 um 23:42 
*looks in on first thread in discussions after being offline for most of the day*
https://media.tenor.com/hMQKLC9BCRgAAAAC/seinfeld-thats-enough-internet-for-today.gif
777395 21. März 2023 um 23:53 
Khazarian Jews?
Funny, the language of the Dwarfs is called Khazalid. Another coincidence i'm sure.

Chaos Dwarfs are an old-old Warhammer race and Games Workshop, as demonstrated, by their numerous factions (especially old school GW) know their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ history.

These. Are. Not. Coincidences.

Also, Jews never making an attempt to convert only speaks further to their xenophobia. After all you don't want the gentiles joining the chosen ones.
That being said you, in modern times, can become a "Jew" after one of the most gruelling initiation periods overseen by Rabbis wherein you learn more about Judaism than even your average Jew. After that you're termed a "Ger" which literally translates to "Alien" so you'll never actually be one of them.
777395 21. März 2023 um 23:59 
I'm gonna really enjoy playing this faction but let's not delude ourselves where the inspirations come from.

We're all happy for the Norscans (based on viking-age Scandinavians and pre-medieval Germanic peoples) to be city-sacking, pelt-wearing slaughter-rapists but you name the real-world inspirations for the Chorfs and the disturbing parallels with ancient Semites then suddenly people lose their ♥♥♥♥. C'mon be consistent now.
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