Azazel vs Sigvald vs N'kari. Most fun "Slaanesh" campaign

[JoeVonFo]

Hi guys

I want to play an immortal empires campaign in the name of glorious Slaanesh.

If any of you have played as more than one of these characters I'd love to hear your opinions on which campaign was the most enjoyable and why.

On one hand I kinda like N'kari being able to get all the actual Slaanesh units (Slaaneshi marauders, instead of just marked marauders etc), but on the other hand the warriors of chaos building system seems best suited for Slaanesh in comparison to the other gods, due to how charming his minions are, thereby making them better at obtaining vassals.

What's your take?

[JoeVonFo]

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

Originally posted by JoeVonFo:

I play on legendary, so guess I'll have to refrain from using that mechanic..

How much of an issue would you say that is as WoC? To be unable to vassalize that way I mean.

And just so I know..
If I make Throgg my vassal while he's dead, will he then come back or should I wait until he's alive?

First just to explain, there's certain settlements that naturally belong to certain norscan vassal factions. If you take a dark fortress with that norscan faction's picture, you will automatically vassalize them, and if you take settlements with those vassals pictures you can automatically gift the settlement to them (though you can also just do it through diplomacy).

A faction bugs out specifically when you use that option to revive a faction that had died earlier in the campaign. Throgg is not one of the factions you can automatically vassalize (you'll have to subjugate him or vassalize him diplomatically), so this bug can't apply to him since if he dies, you can't revive him.

Its a non issue though. The worst case is 1 dead settlement (vassal settlements aren't worth much other than preventing enemy ai from settling them anyways, at least for norscans. They don't seem to really build up much). Or you can still declare war on a bugged faction, take the settlement back, and gift it to another vassal.

Ah okay, thank you for clarifying that! :)
That's a pretty nice mechanic actually. But if I then take one of these fortresses and the old tribe is dead.. What happens if I try to resurrect it and it bugs?
Is my campaign lost or does it simply not work?

Because if I'm playing as festus or some non-slaaneshi lord I assume this is the easiest way by far to vassalize a tribe.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by JoeVonFo:

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

First just to explain, there's certain settlements that naturally belong to certain norscan vassal factions. If you take a dark fortress with that norscan faction's picture, you will automatically vassalize them, and if you take settlements with those vassals pictures you can automatically gift the settlement to them (though you can also just do it through diplomacy).

A faction bugs out specifically when you use that option to revive a faction that had died earlier in the campaign. Throgg is not one of the factions you can automatically vassalize (you'll have to subjugate him or vassalize him diplomatically), so this bug can't apply to him since if he dies, you can't revive him.

Its a non issue though. The worst case is 1 dead settlement (vassal settlements aren't worth much other than preventing enemy ai from settling them anyways, at least for norscans. They don't seem to really build up much). Or you can still declare war on a bugged faction, take the settlement back, and gift it to another vassal.

Ah okay, thank you for clarifying that! :)
That's a pretty nice mechanic actually. But if I then take one of these fortresses and the old tribe is dead.. What happens if I try to resurrect it and it bugs?
Is my campaign lost or does it simply not work?

Because if I'm playing as festus or some non-slaaneshi lord I assume this is the easiest way by far to vassalize a tribe.

They'll be a neutral faction that won't show up in the diplomacy menu, and won't do anything. You can still declare war on them by clicking on them with your army, but otherwise no diplomacy is possible. Most of the time they weren't even a vassal for me, so you can just declare war and kill them next turn.

[Cuthalion]

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

Originally posted by Roflberries:

Reviving dead factions to vassalize causes the vassal to break. You can play around this by only creating vassals using diplomacy and seduction.

So just don't use the post battle option to vassalize a faction outside of the one you get on turn 1 and gift settlements directly via diplomacy and you won't encounter it.

Oh that's not an azazel bug then, that's every chaos faction. In my experience it didn't break every time, just most of the time, so I quicksave before reviving a vassal and if they break I just take the territory myself (though obviously that's not an option for legendary players).

I played Sigvald and it's not exactly this way, though similar.
Dead factions should not be revived, they will break. But existing nosrans can be vassalized alright, not only your starting vassal. You need to take their capital (it's not always clear which is their capital) and if they are still alive, they will become your vassals and will not be buggy.
Funny thing is how I vassalized Mung (or which one is that to the north-west corner?). They were vassals of Valkia and attacking me with them. I besieged their capital. In their turn they made a sortie and lost, thus allowing me to vassalize them right on spot. And immediately they turned on Valkia and backstabbed her, saving my other settlements.

[McSpanky]

I had a lot of fun playing Azazel. I ended up getting Slaanesh's Blade through the Eye of the Gods thing. This made Azazel an insanely fast flying assassin. He was able to fly across the battlefield at high speeds, take down their lord or single entity in less than 5 hits, then retreat and repeat.

Also had nearly all of Cathay vassalized and was quite fun seeing them spread out and try to take over my enemies.

[Faptor]

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

There's a lot of hot elven chicks near N'Kari's start position.

those aren't chicks

[titanopteryx]

After playing the WoC a lot I have some observations to share about the bug. If a norscan faction gets eliminated by being confederated, then you revive it, the vassal is bugged. However I don't think it bugs if it's eliminated by being killed, then revived.

One thing that sets Azazal apart from the other WoC is he starts right next to the 2 norscan LLs and clan moulder. So you can go subjugate the 3 of them and have 3 LL vassals. You gotta take their last settlements and pick the subjugate option.

[yuzhonglu]

Originally posted by Faptor:

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

There's a lot of hot elven chicks near N'Kari's start position.

those aren't chicks

Alarielle, Sisters... Lots of pure incorruptible goodness to corrupt.

There's also Morathi, but she's corrupted already.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

Originally posted by Faptor:

those aren't chicks

Alarielle, Sisters... Lots of pure incorruptible goodness to corrupt.

There's also Morathi, but she's corrupted already.

Alarielle incorruptible? She picks up the sword of khaine almost every single campaign. And we've probably all experienced how much high elf factions love declaring war on you. Skaven factions are more diplomatic than she is.

She's clearly a Khorne worshipper though, so it does make perfect sense that its your job as a slaanesh character to kill her.

[yuzhonglu]

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

Alarielle, Sisters... Lots of pure incorruptible goodness to corrupt.

There's also Morathi, but she's corrupted already.

Alarielle incorruptible? She picks up the sword of khaine almost every single campaign. And we've probably all experienced how much high elf factions love declaring war on you. Skaven factions are more diplomatic than she is.

They could at least change her traits after seduction so that every province she visits spreads Slaneeshi corruption, and she gets bonuses (instead of maluses) with higher corruption. It's annoying how even after vassalizing her she still provides hordes of untaint.

[hammerinn]

N'kari has such a ridiculous start. Every settlement battle i'm facing all spearmen and archers. one spear unit bogs down half my army because the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pathing in cities is SO bad. I literally click forward movement and my troops move backward to maintain coherency because apparently only one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ guy can turn a corner at a time. You can't use any cavalry because it's all spearmen so forget half of your disciple armies. And if you think that settlement garrisons are balanced across different factions we aren't playing the same game.

[yuzhonglu]

Originally posted by hammerinn:

N'kari has such a ridiculous start. Every settlement battle i'm facing all spearmen and archers. one spear unit bogs down half my army because the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pathing in cities is SO bad. I literally click forward movement and my troops move backward to maintain coherency because apparently only one ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ guy can turn a corner at a time. You can't use any cavalry because it's all spearmen so forget half of your disciple armies. And if you think that settlement garrisons are balanced across different factions we aren't playing the same game.

For minor settlements, you use a select group to run around and pick off enemy units one at a time. Don't fight in any location where there's more than 2 enemy units.

For major settlements, you sneak N'Kari and a select group of cav straight to the victory points.

[hammerinn]

Originally posted by zefyris:

Originally posted by JoeVonFo:

Yeah I was leaning towards N'kari as well, although Azazel is quite nice as well.. Really love that he's a small (non-large) model, but N'kari is quite awesome, although made of glass :D

One other thing that's quite alluring about Azazel is the inclusion of chaos cannons though.
"Come to me children... Or I shall blast you to pieces!"

N'Kari isn't really fragile. He and his armies are so fast that they reach their target before they can receive a lot of damage from enemy fire, and once in melee, N'kari causes so muchs debuffs around him that enemies barely scratch him, while he quite literally wreck them. He also quickly have access to several ways of causing rampage among enemies. You can use that on enemy ranged every time you see one managing to disengage from melee, forcing it to run back to you rather than firing from afar. it's a very satisfying lord to use tbh.

Except you are fighting elves. They block you up with endless spearmen while archers and towers nuke N'kari

[yuzhonglu]

Originally posted by hammerinn:

Originally posted by zefyris:

N'Kari isn't really fragile. He and his armies are so fast that they reach their target before they can receive a lot of damage from enemy fire, and once in melee, N'kari causes so muchs debuffs around him that enemies barely scratch him, while he quite literally wreck them. He also quickly have access to several ways of causing rampage among enemies. You can use that on enemy ranged every time you see one managing to disengage from melee, forcing it to run back to you rather than firing from afar. it's a very satisfying lord to use tbh.

Except you are fighting elves. They block you up with endless spearmen while archers and towers nuke N'kari

Not true. The AI will split their units if you split your army in multiple locations. Pick off the split off units. Your army should be 100% cav or marauder horsemen. Focus on mobility and pick off isolated units.

[Sledjer]

N'Kari starts on Ulthuan and he is in a great situation where he is surrounded by potential enemies, but his relationship boost means that he doesn't have to worry too much about getting attacked from behind. He's in a good situation to rush the island and take it all quite quickly, but you can really do whatever you want because its unlikely even the high elves will attack you as long as you do some basic diplomacy.

Azazel and Sigvar are both better though imo because WoC benefits from using vassals in general, and that means Slaaneshi vassalization mechanics are actually useful. Also Slaanesh followers are excellent among WoC factions because of how good Slaanesh chosen are (the best IMO, only one that comes close is Tzeentch). On top of that, they get souls from gifts of Slaanesh which trivializes soul maintenance mechanics.
Of the two, Azazel has an even stronger relationship boost than N'Kari so that probably makes him the best.

[zefyris]

Originally posted by hammerinn:

Originally posted by zefyris:

N'Kari isn't really fragile. He and his armies are so fast that they reach their target before they can receive a lot of damage from enemy fire, and once in melee, N'kari causes so muchs debuffs around him that enemies barely scratch him, while he quite literally wreck them. He also quickly have access to several ways of causing rampage among enemies. You can use that on enemy ranged every time you see one managing to disengage from melee, forcing it to run back to you rather than firing from afar. it's a very satisfying lord to use tbh.

Except you are fighting elves. They block you up with endless spearmen while archers and towers nuke N'kari

While settlements are a bit trickier, you can catch ranged by using rampage effects on them, or decimate them with spells, or simply go through the spearmen ranks with chariots or anything massive like N'Kari himself. Also all your army is fast so you can distuurb their position by threatening to take other points. Still not really a problem.
Though I still encourage anyone playing as N'Kari to go for any physical and missile resistance you can find, just for the extra protection on the long run. N'Kari isn't really vulnerable in melee.