VR support ?

[▷▲▽𝗶◁]

like with Everspace 1...

[david]

+1 VR - the original is still one of my favourite VR games.

Offer it as DLC on pre-order and see if people are willing to pay for it I guess.

[dunninger]

Well, we all may be giving this game a pass, but ES1 is still a great game in VR, largely ignored by the broader VR community, but well worth the full price. I have been a long time advocate of ES1, and when I say to my VR friends 'Have you tried Everspace?' - the reply is almost always 'No, what's that?' - so, in this regard, I certainly feel RFG's pain. The made a great VR game, but for one reason or another, it was largely ignored. I would still rather play ES1 over Squadrons, as it has (for me) a more engaging game loop.

On the issue of controller support for *all* VR games. I will roll with what I get. If the game is good, then you are simply unaware of having anything in your hands at all. If you are thinking 'hey, why am I holding a Xbox controller?' - I would argue that the game itself is lacking.

[Signor Lama]

I stopped playing ES1 thinking "hey that's a nice start, VR is amazing, let's wait for the whole package with ES2" and nope. how disappointing. won't have my money and uninstalling ES1 right now. sorry guys but wrong decision. Game industry needs to push VR and brand new experiences, without that "extra" this is just another boring, flat, 3d shooter. farewell

[💎 Andy 💎]

@Michael. ROCKFISH

Again, said with respect.

I am not sure if you read through this post, that I wrote.. ⤵⤵ (Linked below)
That Treebs reposed, and then you replied on.--

(And please excuse me mentioning another game, it is in a positive nature, nothing negative.)
And I specifically mention this game, and Dev team.
Because they too are a "semi indie," very competent, skilled group of devs.. Like yourselves.
As well as being a game, where you can pilot a lot of different vehicles.

--if you did. (read it.)
And saw the WHOPPING numbers gap between Subnautica 1- (with VR) and 2-(without it.)

There are two very "justifiable points for the implementation of VR in ES2."

I hope you read, and consider these. They are both unequivocal.

Point one.

⭐
90+% of the "VR owners who are asking for VR implementation, are not in the slightest bothered, or expecting "motion controller support... Fact.
(Would it be nice...sure.)
However, given the choice between...
👍🏼Game pad, and or HOTAS, with the HMD.
👎🏼Or no VR....
I dont even need to complete this sentence... do I.

Seeing as this is a Space ship game, and Gamepad /HOTAS is awesome, with the HMD.
I am not sure what you read. Or who the "motion controller zealots" were, that screwed it for everyone else...
Both...
🥽🕹🎮 "The VR gamers, and "instant purchasers." If ES2 had HMD, with gamepad /HOTAS support.
As well as..
💲 You ROCKFISH Devs. from reaping the rewards of that "extra mile implementing it.

In conclusion to point one.

The vast majority of VR owners, just want ES2, in VR, using a gamepad, and or HOTAS.

But be assured, if you do reconsider, and bring VR in the form of "HMD VR."
You WILL see a surge in sales, as a game, and kudos as a company, for listening to your fans /supporters.

Point two.

⭐And here we get back to Subnautica.
But you are probably ahead of me already.

Those numbers. ⤵⤵⤵⤵⤵⤵⤵⤵⤵⤵ Down there, in that post linked below.
They are FACT.

And ........ Subnautica, does NOT have motion controller support. Whether in vehicles or even out.
And the response from the VR community is .. well...

"OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE."

Quite literally.

SO, and this is not rhetorical.
Question for you Michael, and your team..

"In what world, galaxy, dimension.
Is NOT adding HMD gamepad / HOTAS, a "business decision, that makes any sense?"
(Again) From your standpoint, or (the massively enthusiastic fans) AKA.. ours?

Originally posted by Treebs:

Originally posted by 💎 Andy 💎:

The following is said with respect.
And is a direct reply to your post.

🥽1. But so many other developers have.
AAA, to indie, one-persons devs.
From...
Space games, like- Star Wars Squadrons / Elite Dangerous /HOTDS / CDF star fighter / NO Mans Sky, etc, etc.
To..
Car / Truck Games, like- Project Cars, (series) Dirt (series) Truck Simulator U.s and European. Asseto Corsa / Distance, and on and on.
To..
So many other titles. like - ALYX, Subnautica, SuperHot, and so so many more.
All of Those, and all the other devs,
"brought the "optional VR support. And dealt with the marketing consequences/challenges."

🥽2. What is said in this thread, about the "big game engines UE4, and Unity bending over backwards to facilitate developers implementing VR" is a fact.

🥽3. MANY, not all... but many, people who bought ES1, and the fame / kudos attained for Rockfish was due, to VR.

🥽4. VR both in numbers sold, and progression in gaming, has come a long way since you guys launched ES1.

🥽5. Rockfish "obviously" have a dedicated following among the VR community from ES1.
Even from the "booming reaction" of those who have bothered to post on this thread alone,- (as we all know that not everyone posts on the forums, are anywhere near the numbers of those who just purchase "The games." on Steam)
And yet the (you) chose to completely ignore these fans / supporters of Rockfish, and your previous game.

🥽6. The sheer number of HMDs that were sold OUT, and on back order. And I do mean every single HMD from the Rift's to Valves own Index, And everything in between, this last year.
Things have changed, and are changing the "Mainstream status" of this technology..

🥽7. Whether from a financial, / loyalty, / and even a "future proofing stand point.
Whoever decided not to go the extra mile, and not to include VR in ES2, it was a faux pas.

🥽 8..
And just to make reference once more, to another team of talented devs like you guys.

Who made the same mistake... Just for comparison.
Lets look at the numbers.....

Subnautica, WITH - VR. (not motion controller, just game pad) VS the second game Subnautica "Sub zero" <--(there's a joke in there, but I will refrain.)
And...
Just take a look at the WHOPPING! difference, in sales, reviews, AND degree of reviews.

Subnautica 1....... WITH - VR.
Release Date Jan 2018
(Only 1 year earlier than the second one below.)
And remember, they were an unknown.... Without the following that the second should have capitalized on.

145k (thats ---> One hundred and forty-five thousand) reviews.
(Circa 117k MORE reviews..- (Not sales, just reviews,) -than the second game when they dropped VR.)
All..." Overwhelmingly Positive"

Subnautica Sub Zero....... WITHOUT - VR.
Release Date Jan 2019.
28 (twenty-eight thousand) reviews (Again.. 117k less reviews than SN1)
And "very positive"

If this isn't a "cautionary tale" I'm not sure what is. 🤔

Agan all said with due respect.

I / we would not be here if I / we didnt love your work. But want it, / will purchase it, as it was in ES1... With the option of VR. 🥽

Exactly this. Well said and written. The developers pathetic response in this thread is quite sad really. This discussion should highlight to them how many people are passionate about their game and want to enjoy it at it's best (VR and a joystick). The VR market has doubled in size since the last game implemented VR, which they did a poor job with on the first game anyway.

If they actually invested in hiring people to implement VRt properly it would massively boost sales for the game and bring in a whole new audience. If they don't want to that's up to them ultimately but don't be so f*cking disrespectful to fans who are just asking for it to be considered.

Originally posted by ROCKFISH Games:

Originally posted by Generic Skateboarding Beer Dog:

Unfortunately, that was exactly one of the issues with the predecessor, and we've read "demanding full VR support incl. motion VR motion controllers" for ES2 in several places on the internet already. /Michael

[Typhoon]

Originally posted by 💎 Andy 💎:

"OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE."

Quite literally.

"In what world, galaxy, dimension.
Is NOT adding HMD gamepad / HOTAS, a "business decision, that makes any sense?"
(Again) From your standpoint, or (the massively enthusiastic fans) AKA.. ours?

Sorry but have to interject here, you can't keep using the difference between Subnautica and Below Zero as a barometer for VR popularity in a franchise. There are many factors which can affect a lower rating/amount of sales for Below Zero, one of which being that Below Zero is still in early access and isn't finished.

And regarding VR implementation being a business decision: every aspect of game development takes man-hours. What Michael means is that there's a fine balance between spending the time and resources on developing a feature and the amount of projected revenue said feature will garner. I develop apps for the company I work for and often deciding whether to include a feature is based on the amount of time it will take to develop versus the amount of time it will save the end user. While in my role I won't be paid any different for what I develop, I do have to factor in if it would be worth me spending 16 hours implementing functionality that will only save 1 hour total over the apps lifetime use.

[Nisverah]

Originally posted by Treebs:

If they don't want to that's up to them ultimately but don't be so f*cking disrespectful to fans who are just asking for it to be considered.

VR players have got to be some of the most needy I've seen, the dev statement did not come off as disrespectful in the slightest, and made plenty enough reasoning as to why they'd wait until release or 2022 to worry about VR.

Also this whole Subnautica comparison is wild considering in the end, Sub Zero is not a main series game and was lacking in plenty of areas aside from VR. Just remember that correlation is not causation, there are other factors than VR, and I'm positive VR was a minor factor in the overwhelmingly positive reviews.

[D'Shanz]

Alright, so since I've already bought they game, but can't abide by RFG's decision and their attitude, I've used my situation to the best of my ability and I've left my first ever negative review.

I've detailed the exact situation as it is (and a little bit of my opinion/interpretation thereof), to hopefully inform more people that wouldn't make it to the forum and find out that they are stripping this game of the VR content.

I've encouraged those that read to join us here in adding their "no VR, no buy" to the many others here. I'd also like to invite those in this discussion that want this to gain more visibility to read my review and to mark it as helpful.

[Typhoon]

Originally posted by D'Shanz:

I've detailed the exact situation as it is (and a little bit of my opinion/interpretation thereof), to hopefully inform more people that wouldn't make it to the forum and find out that they are stripping this game of the VR content.

Unfortunately your "little bit" of interpretation is wrong.
Nowhere have they said they're not considering VR at all and they've said they'll consider adding it as a feature to the game after the 1.0 release - they've said nothing to even suggest they'll double-dip with a standalone VR version like you mention in your review. They're not "stripping" VR from the game either because it wasn't here in the first place.

If you're going to write a review slamming a game for something, could you at least make sure you're slamming it for something that's actually happening?

Otherwise you just harm the argument you're trying to make.

[D'Shanz]

Originally posted by Generic Skateboarding Beer Dog:

Originally posted by D'Shanz:

I've detailed the exact situation as it is (and a little bit of my opinion/interpretation thereof), to hopefully inform more people that wouldn't make it to the forum and find out that they are stripping this game of the VR content.

Unfortunately your "little bit" of interpretation is wrong.
Nowhere have they said they're not considering VR at all and they've said they'll consider adding it as a feature to the game after the 1.0 release - they've said nothing to even suggest they'll double-dip with a standalone VR version like you mention in your review.

If you're going to write a review slamming a game for something, could you at least make sure you're slamming it for something that's actually happening?

Otherwise you just harm the argument you're trying to make.

Dude, read Michael's latest response. He has literally made it clear they are not adding VR to ES2, but will only consider releasing standalone. If you're going to call me out on something at least get your facts straight.

And as far as I'm concerned, yes, it IS stripping a feature when it existed in the previous title. You're free to have your own opinion on that, this is mine.

[Typhoon]

Originally posted by D'Shanz:

Dude, read Michael's latest response. He has literally made it clear they are not adding VR to ES2, but will only consider releasing standalone. If you're going to call me out on something at least get your facts straight.

Dude, read the thread and don't take a single comment out of its context. I know what Michael's comments were because I was the one replying to him and followed up. Go back and check from the one below.

Originally posted by Generic Skateboarding Beer Dog:

Just to clarify, have we gone from:
"We will be looking at VR again in 2022"
to:
"we considered having optional VR in ES2, but we decided not to"
?

The plan is still to revisit it as a feature in 2022 after the release of V1.0. Where do you get the info on a standalone version from?

[D'Shanz]

Man, here are Michael's exact words TO YOU

"As you can read in the pinned response of this thread, we ruled out having optional VR in ES2, but that we will have a look at the topic after full release if a standalone, fully optimized VR version might be a good business decision, or rather spend our limited resources in adding more content and features to the "pancake" version."

Let me try to make it even clearer:

"we ruled out having optional VR in ES2" <-- Means VR WON'T be in this title

"but that we will ... release a standalone, fully optimized VR version" <-- Means they will release a separate product (maybe)

FFS man, what are you on? Telling me that *I* can't interpret when the man LITERALLY told YOU SPECIFICALLY what I said in my review. Sheesh

[Typhoon]

Originally posted by D'Shanz:

Man, here are Michael's exact words TO YOU

"As you can read in the pinned response of this thread, we ruled out having optional VR in ES2, but that we will have a look at the topic after full release if a standalone, fully optimized VR version might be a good business decision, or rather spend our limited resources in adding more content and features to the "pancake" version."

Let me try to make it even clearer:

"we ruled out having optional VR in ES2" <-- Means VR WON'T be in this title

"but that we will ... release a standalone, fully optimized VR version" <-- Means they will release a separate product (maybe)

FFS man, what are you on?

I missed the part where he mentioned standalone so I'll give you that, but he meant it as an option:

"or rather spend our limited resources in adding more content and features to the "pancake" version"

He means they'll decide what they're doing after the release of V1.0, whether that be creating a standalone VR game or adding features like VR to the existing build, just like they did with ES1.

Apparantly the argument against VR has been the expectation from some of the community for a full-fat VR port when noone in this thread has expressed a desire for one.

We then went on to discuss that nobody has mentioned here the desire for a fully fledged motion control version (discussing keyboard, hotas and controller support) and that HMD functionality in the current game would please most people.

Context. My criticism of your review is that you've dealt with absolutes, like VR will only be a thing as a standalone and they've said they're definitely not adding it as a feature, which just isn't true.

[💎 Andy 💎]

Originally posted by Generic Skateboarding Beer Dog:

Originally posted by 💎 Andy 💎:

"OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE."

Quite literally.

"In what world, galaxy, dimension.
Is NOT adding HMD gamepad / HOTAS, a "business decision, that makes any sense?"
(Again) From your standpoint, or (the massively enthusiastic fans) AKA.. ours?

Sorry but have to interject here, you can't keep using the difference between Subnautica and Below Zero as a barometer for VR popularity in a franchise. There are many factors which can affect a lower rating/amount of sales for Below Zero, one of which being that Below Zero is still in early access and isn't finished.

What Michael means is

Erm.. Yep... I really can make a comparison.
1- SN = With VR option = loved, and huge purchases.
2- SN2 = No VR option = not loved, and way.. WAY less purchases..

Sure there are "differences" in the game. Or I would hope so, as subzero is, well, the "second" game"... So y'know.. its... its a, "different game."
(I didn't buy SNSZ, simply because it doesn't have..... well, you know...)

And..
The..... "its still not finished." chestnut...
I'm sorry.... I will try to forgo being sarky here.

But it was released, pretty fleshed-out, way way back in January 2019...
2 years ago.. Not last month.
So that argument just doesn't hold water.. "Even frozen water."

Oh and.
"What Michael means." ....
Really?

Thank you Michael's proxy.

No hate man, but that did make me smile. 🤭

[D'Shanz]

Ok yeah, I literally just reread that part before you posted, and I'll actually admit that I misread:

"or rather spend our limited resources in adding more content and features to the "pancake" version." (which implies they may decide later)

as

"rather than spend our limited resources in adding more content and features to the "pancake" version." (which implies they'd rather not spend any of their "limited resources" at all)

which seemed like a naturally conclusion to that sentence.

My interpretation still stands, but they haven't put out as hard of an anti-inclusive stance as I first interpreted, so thanks for helping me to understand that, but you haven't invalidated my opinion and review and I feel it's still important to make their decision be known. I'll make a minor edit to it to rectify it accordingly.

[PandabaconVR]

You should implement a VR feature. With games out like squadrons and the fact you had it in the first Everspace its kind of lazy to not implement it. This game would be extremely playable in VR.