Great work, I love some of these changes.

A little off-topic, but does the mod conflict with my Local 4P guide?: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1807348715

Originalmente postado por 󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡MNT:

Any chance we can get a screenshot of the ascension interface? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it while I map out what I want to do on my first play with this mod.

It sounds similar to Grim Dawn's 'Devotion' system, right down to the names. It sounds like the nodes in this one are linear though, and you need all for the completion bonus.

Looking forward to this beta! You guys did an amazing job once again! +1

Looks interesting. Can't wait for the release.


Are ambidextrous and Finesse mutually exclusive?

Thanks everyone!

@Rain: There's some stuff that would have benefited from Larian adding engine features, especially with regards to the standalone experience we're making. Also the potential for it to be an "official" thing.

@MNT: Yeah I'll add a screenshot or gif to the Ascension sheet when I get a chance.

@GreppiM: Looks like your guide references a download that isn't a mod, in which case it should work just fine.

@Blankedy Blank: That's correct, it's inspired by that system quite a bit. The upper-tier nodes have points where you need to choose, though.

@Keyen: The AP recovery from either may never reduce the net-cost to less than 2 AP. This was written next to Finesse, but not next to Ambidextrous (I added it to Ambidextrous as well now, thanks!).

Hum, several additional questions:

-Is the limitation of stats (even for LW) at 40 still here, or you can go higher?

-In the ascension spreadsheet, you are sometimes talking about 5/5b. I guess these two are exclusive?

-Still in the ascension spreadsheet, you are sometimes talking about 4/4b, then 5, then 6b (which is confusing). How do it works, are they linked to their line (for instance, if you take 4b, you have to pick 6b) or you can still take 5 after 4b?

-Can you pick multiple same tier ascension nodes?

-If so, how does it works when you have activation conditions who don't really work with each other? For instance, I pick Blood ape, summoning a totem next to an enemy destroying a totem. It's an occultist reaction. If I pick the Imp as well, i get one free additional occultist reaction (does it means I don't have to pay the AP?), and I can use occultist reaction when an ally applies wither to an enemy. Does a totem is summoned? Next to my ally? Next to the enemy?

-Can we remove one specific ascension node we don't need anymore? (For instance, if we picked stuff so we met the requirement of the next tier, and once we get them, we are still over the requirement even without the first node, can we remove it?)

-Shouldn't savage sortilege a base talent as well (with Pet pal and Lone wolf), since many stuff grant spell crit natively?

-How does Torturer work with the change? You explained a lot about tiered status, but you didn't say anything about burning/bleeding and if they were still blocked by armor/magic armor.

-An ascension skill is "Any non-zero amount of damage you deal is sufficient to apply at least two stacks of Battered or Harried, but you have -65% damage."How does it works with multiple damage skill like searing daggers? You apply 2 stacks per hit?

Thank a lot!

- Limitation of attributes is still 40.

- 5/5b in Ascension does indeed mean that these are a choice.

- 5, then 6b in Ascension is an error on my part, it should be 5/5b; thanks! On the lines where you see 4/4b and 5/5b, you will be able to choose 4, then 5b if you want, or 4b, then 5 if you want.

- You can pick as many Ascension clusters of the same tier as you want, the only restriction is that you have enough points and you satisfy their requirements.

- Yes, +1 free reaction per round means you have a "charge" of it not costing any AP.

- If we find any combos that are bugged together, we'll have to fix 'em. In the case of Blood Ape + The Imp, they should not conflict. The Imp will let you do an Occultist reaction on the enemy who is Withered by your ally. If you have the Blood Ape in this case, you also summon a totem next to the target of your Occultist reaction--which is the enemy who was Withered.

Can we remove one specific ascension node we don't need anymore?

- Yes and no; I will add an explanation for this to the sheet--we want you to play around with these nodes a lot. You can freely allocate/remove nodes on a whim, given that it does not break any requirements you are currently satisfying, and given that it is not a node preceding linked nodes you currently have allocated. This may be more clear after I add a visual to the sheet.

Shouldn't savage sortilege a base talent

- Perhaps, we'll have to see. More likely we could do an optional patch to make it so. Keep in mind that this talent is better than it was before because it now allows your DoT statuses (like Burning, Poison, etc) to crit, and these DoT statuses now scale with your damage increases. I should add this note to Savage Sortilege in the Talents section, as well as in non-tiered statuses, where it is now.

- Torturer works just as it used to, the original non-tiered statuses like Burning/Bleeding are indeed still blocked by armor.

Thanks! :D

I feel like Torturer should be a base talent or atleast unnecessary, it's not fun to experiment with, it's kinda essential/must for any fire mage,

High/Low ground should atleast have a low base modifier that can't be modified, or make a comeback as a talent, it makes some of the fights designs irrelevant without it.

Another thing I'm unsure on how I feel is the new Attribute system, I feel like people will dump most points into Power, and I preferred Vainilla system of armor, where Intelligence gives you anti-mage armor, Strength gives you anti-warrior armor and Finese gives you both but not as much, just dumping a few points onto strength meant you could do a melee-mage with Physical armor, or vice-versa. Finese rn is too RNG-based (If you ask me, RNG has no place on the DOS games), I think most people would rather invest elsewhere rather than relying on probabilities. I think it'd also be a better idea to have all skills base damage to scale with weapons rather than reducing Power's effectiveness with shields. Constitution is just as irrelevant as it is on the Vainilla game, in fact, due to Strength giving you armor %, it's even more irrelevant. The Attribute system is still far from perfect imo, it's my main gripe with the mod.

Then again, I might change my mind if I try it out, most of these changes are phenomenal, you guys did an excellent job.

- Yes and no; I will add an explanation for this to the sheet--we want you to play around with these nodes a lot. You can freely allocate/remove nodes on a whim, given that it does not break any requirements you are currently satisfying, and given that it is not a node preceding linked nodes you currently have allocated. This may be more clear after I add a visual to the sheet.

Alright, let me give an example (Totem character!) to see if I got it right. First, I guess it's like Grim dawn, where you have 1 point node giving 1 of any attribute.
So:
-First point: the thing giving +1 entropy.
-3 pts spent on the crow, Requirement met (need 1), gives 3 entropy for a total of 4.
-Another point spent on the thing giving +1 inertia
-3 pts spent on The Armadillo, gives 2 form 2 inertia (and can self sustain)
-Removing the point spent on the thing giving +1 inertia. (Which is still okay the armadillo requires 1 inertia and gives 2)
-5 points on the Blood Ape, requires 2 forms (from armadillo) and 4 entropy (from the crow and the base point), gives 1 form 3 entropy
-Remove three points from the crow (because blood ape can self sustain from the base entropy and his own 3 entropy)
-3 points into silkworm, gives 3 form 1 entropy
-5 points into Cerberus, requires 6 form (2 from armadillo, 1 from blood ape, 3 from silkworm), 2 inertia (from armadillo), 5 entropy (1 from base, 3 from blood ape, 1 from silkworm).

And everything require 1 +3 + 1 + 3 -1 +5 -3 + 3 + 5 = 17 points needed.

Can we do that, or I misunderstood something?

The concept of "The enemy kills 1 totem, 2 new totems are summoned" is really sexy, I NEED to try it in my first party.

I feel like Torturer should be a base talent or atleast unnecessary

It's very powerful, for sure; we'll keep it in mind.

High/Low ground should atleast have a low base modifier

My thoughts on high/low ground was that the range benefit was already way too good, let alone any damage bonuses (which are inherently multiplicative). It still does offer extra range which, again, is insanely good.

Another thing I'm unsure on how I feel is the new Attribute system

With regards to armor requirements, we didn't like how requirements were essentially nonexistent, and we liked the DOS1 style of having strength be a "tax" stat for wearing better armor. In testing, it seemed to work out pretty well, and CON seemed very difficult to ignore--though some specific builds can probably play with stacked armor and go light on CON, which I think is fine. Finesse is intended to be stacked to a point where you have reliable AP recovery, at which point you wouldn't be influence by its RNG (unless you meant the dodge aspect of it, which is something to keep in mind).

@Keyen: You've understood correctly, that build seems like it would work! However, to be sure, note that Cerberus replaces dying totems with *one* totem; perhaps the language should be changed to make this more clear. If you have Blood Ape and you do an Occultist reaction from the totem death, though, you would indeed get two totems from it dying.

This is in fact one of the builds we tested a lot, and we really enjoy the playstyle of it. There may be artifact(s) relevant to that build as well, so make sure you look through those if you aren't worried about spoilers.

Personally we loved a similar build with The Ritual as well; led to a lot of fun moments where enemies would kill a totem and end up getting bodied by ~7 totems firing all at once xD

The high ground bonus wasn't strictly multiplicative. It was still additive with critical damage (but was multiplicative with everything else).

But yeah, it was crazy.


BTW, i'm making an ascension calculator for easy theorycrafting, I will share it this evening or tomorrow.

I, for one, am looking forward to getting thoroughly wrecked.

BTW, i'm making an ascension calculator for easy theorycrafting, I will share it this evening or tomorrow.

Awesome! I would be more than happy to link to it on our sheet, if you're alright with that.

Is actual tanking a thing with taunt/shackles of pain? Or is taunt still not working while shackles work like an anti taunt whre AI ignores you completely? Rather important to me because this fits my playstyles a lot

Here you go:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DIHWIkhXJS_sj5HKsERENeYXc5ioTnNxnKKKGqd2lH0/edit?usp=sharing

If you have comments, I take them. However, i'm not that good with excel that it can calculate the most optimized path for you :p