RimWorld

RimWorld

Rimsenal - Core
gunnyer Jun 4, 2017 @ 5:46pm
Most Effective Weapons?
I've realized after over a hundred hours of playing with this mod that there's no clear-cut answer as to which arms company's weapons are simply superior to the rest, aand that I need to experiment with every gun available to find what's effective or what's not. With currently about 9 different archetypes, generally divided by factions/companies, each with a gun for everything, it's very difficult to determine which gun to use as a potential standard for my colonists. This decision has been made even more difficult by the introduction of new weapons and balancing old ones thruought the history of the Rimsenal Pack's updates as the overall game evolved.

I've started to compile a list of all the guns in my current saves with their average accuracies, cooldowns/warmups, ranges, and damage, trying to determine the most effective weapons for a job, be it a sniper, close-quarters-specialist, or just normal grunt trying to do some damage fast.

I'm currently comparing each weapon by category:
Sniper (I'm assuming everything with a range of 35 or greater falls under this category)
Gunner (average colonist without a special role)
Rapid Fire (if you're thinking minigun you're right)
Artillery (look papa! I'm a walking mortar!!:steamhappy:)
CQC (when the snipers need to deal with distant targets and they're knoking down your door)
Melee (not something I'm currently looking too deep into because the weapon's quality affects it's damage output directly, making it difficult to compare different types with only a limited supply of each:steambored:)
I'm organizing each weapon in a category by damage dealt per second (DPS), assuming 100% hit ratio.

I'm putting this out here because I'm interested in what the rest of the commuity thinks and hopefully as a guide for users of this mod who are confounded as I am as to whether to give their colonists an assault rifle, a shard rifle, or a crucible rifle. :steamfacepalm:


EDIT:
Here's my list so far, which I will edit here from now on.


KEY:
DPS = Damage Per Second, calculated based on damage per hit/cooldown and warmup, weapons within a category are organized from highest to lowest DPS.
X = Weapon I personally consider the most effective in a category based on DPS, rate of fire, accuracy, and range. I will most likely equip most of my colonists within their assigned roles with the indicated weapon for uniformity and its proven effectiveness.
Accuracy: As this appears to be the only value that changes depending on quality or durability, all measurements are very general and taken from normal weapons only to give an accurate baseline. Measurements are shown in a simple format organized by range; [Touch][Short][Medium][Long]
- = <50% accuracy
+ = >50% accuracy
= = ~50% accuracy
m = least accurate range, noted after range
M = most accurate range, noted after range
Cooldown: Listed Cooldown on weapon
Warmup: Listed Warmup on weapon
Damage: Listed Damage on weapon, number of shots fired in a burst(if applicable), and the rate at which shots within a burst are fired(if applicable).
Range: Listed maximum Range on weapon


Modlist:
ED-Embrasures, HugsLib, EPOE 2.0, Rimsenal, Rimsenal-Storyteller Pack,
Rimsenal-Security Pack, Rimsenal-Federation, Rimsenal-Feral, Rimsenal
Enhanced Vanilla Pack, Medical Tab, GHXX Tech Advancing, EdB Prepare
Carefully, Simple Sidearms, I can Fix It!, Relations Tab



Snipers:
JI AMR: DPS; ~7.857
Accuracy: -m=++M
Cooldown: 3
Warmup: 4
Damage: 55
Range: 50

Charge Driver: DPS; ~7.246
Accuracy: -m+M++
Cooldown: 3.4
Warmup: 3.5
Damage: 50
Range: 40

Smart Sniper Rifle: DPS; ~7.071X
Accuracy: =m+++M
Cooldown: 1.75
Warmup: 3.2
Damage: 35
Range: 45
NOTE: +50% Shooting Accuracy, -10% Aiming Time

Sniper Rifle: DPS; ~6.319
Accuracy: =m+++M
Cooldown: 2.33
Warmup: 4
Damage: 40
Range: 45

Anti-Material Rifle: DPS; ~5.789
Accuracy: =m+++M
Cooldown: 4
Warmup: 5.5
Damage: 55
Range: 55

Bolt-Action Rifle: DPS; ~5.696
Accuracy: =m+M+M+
Cooldown: 1.26
Warmup: 1.9
Damage: 18
Range: 37



Gunners:
TE Kinetic Rifle: DPS; ~12.381
Accuracy: ++M+=m
Cooldown: .55
Warmup: .5
Damage: 13
Range: 25

JI Molten Rifle: DPS; ~10.638
Accuracy: +m+M++m
Cooldown: 1.1
Warmup: 1.25
Damage: 25
Range: 29

GD Modular Carbine: DPS; ~10.145
Accuracy: ++M+=m
Cooldown: 1.02
Warmup: .75
Damage: 7, 3 (600rpm)
Range: 23

GD Modular Rifle: DPS; ~9.130
Accuracy: ++M++m
Cooldown: 1.4
Warmup: 1
Damage: 7, 4 (360rpm)
Range: 29

Assault Rifle: DPS; ~8.046
Accuracy: ++M++m
Cooldown: 1.36
Warmup: .9
Damage: 7, 3 (514.29rpm)
Range: 31

Compound bow: DPS; ~6.666
Accuracy: +M++=m
Cooldown: 1.3
Warmup: 1.4
Damage: 18
Range: 30

Pila: DPS; 3.75
Accuracy: +M=--m
Cooldown: 4
Warmup: 4
Damage: 30
Range: 20

Blowgun: DPS; ~1.613
Accuracy: +M+--m
Cooldown: 1.7
Warmup: 1.4
Damage: 5
Range: 15


Rapid fire:
Minigun: DPS; ~36.036X
Accuracy: =M---m
Cooldown: 1.66
Warmup: 3
Damage: 8, 30 (900rpm)
Range: 32

Smart Machine Gun: DPS; ~12.152
Accuracy: =+M=-m
Cooldown: 1.65
Warmup: 1.5
Damage: 8, 6 (450rpm)
Range: 25

LMG: DPS; ~11.707
Accuracy: =+M--m
Cooldown: 2
Warmup: 1.4
Damage: 8, 6 (514.29rpm)
Range: 25.9

Feral Submachine Guns: DPS; 10
Accuracy: +M+--m
Cooldown: 1.4
Warmup: .8
Damage: 5, 6 (450rpm)
Range: 13


Artillery:
Charge Cannon: DPS; ~
Accuracy:
Cooldown:
Warmup:
Damage:
Range:

Siege Gun: DPS; ~
Accuracy:
Cooldown:
Warmup:
Damage:
Range:

Plasma Rifle: DPS; ~
Accuracy:
Cooldown:
Warmup:
Damage:
Range:

EMP Rifle: DPS; 0
Accuracy: +M++=m
Cooldown: 1.5
Warmup: 1.3
Damage: 80 (stun)
Range: 25


CQC:
Scatter Charger: DPS; ~23.256X
Accuracy: +M+M=-m
Cooldown: 1.3
Warmup: .85
Damage: 10, 5
Range: 12

Heavy SMG: DPS; ~12.581
Accuracy: +M+--m
Cooldown: 1.65
Warmup: .9
Damage: 13, 3 (327.27rpm)
Range: 18

Machine Pistol: DPS; ~8.571
Accuracy: +M+=-m
Cooldown: .9
Warmup: .5
Damage: 5, 3 (514.29rpm)
Range: 24

Throwing clubs: DPS; ~4.211
Accuracy: +M=--m
Cooldown: 1.6
Warmup: 1.25
Damage: 12
Range: 14

Auxilary Pistol: DPS; ~4.384
Accuracy: +M=--m
Cooldown: 1.8
Warmup: .35
Damage: 8,2 (80prm)
Range: 18


Melee:
Assault Hammer: Heavy melee, don't bother with anything else for specialists
Longsword: Definetly a good standard, don't know about comparison to moded kit
Concussion Baton: It hits hard, don't know if it's worth it yet
Vibrosword: Lightest? Definetly the fastest & weakest
Last edited by gunnyer; Sep 7, 2017 @ 3:02pm
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
gunnyer Jun 4, 2017 @ 5:50pm 
The smart weapons are the trickiest to pin down because of their accuracy buffs, which make the values listed innacurate as to the final result.
-UF- TheAvatar Jun 10, 2017 @ 1:53am 
I am turbo interested in this list you are making. I discovered this mod right before a17 was released and I didn't want all my colonists to die from a random patch event. And I've been enjoying picking it back up and learning how well the guns play together.
gunnyer Jun 11, 2017 @ 4:59am 
Currently I'm taking my time with the list, building on it as I come in contact with new weapons in my current save. I haven't been doing any more significant testing because I just got a new, very awesome (or at least compared to my old one) computer, and am working through the usual kinks of a build-it-yourself rig (drivers are a pain).

Also not positive as to the best method of sharing the list on Steam while still making it easy to update.
Last edited by gunnyer; Jun 11, 2017 @ 5:00am
Sheep Viking Jun 11, 2017 @ 11:34am 
you could use google docs for the list that way you can update it as you want while still keeping it good looking
Opossum Boy Jul 10, 2017 @ 8:23pm 
As of right now, it seems the best weapon company to work with by far is Joutun Industry; i've used all four, and shard weapons generally aren't lethal enough to deal with mechanoids or manhunters, (though this is good when you need humanoid prisoners), and while graydale is good, it's obviously meant to be a placeholder until you get set for better weapons. I have yet to use the hunter weapons in a colony, that's my next goal.

I'd love to see some proper testing, though. As of right now, I haven't been getting very difficult raids at all, even though I have almost ten thousand silver, I'm still getting federation raids of only auxillary pistol soldiers and bombers, and I have yet to see a single ogron from the ferals. All I know is the JI can absolutely destroy most of my enemies before they even breach the first barrack, and that's what matters, so i'm putting my money on JI sweeping the competition.
gunnyer Jul 14, 2017 @ 11:02pm 
Finally got most of the kinks worked out of my new rig and am starting to come back to this, sorry I took so long:steambored:. I've decided to put the list in the initial discussion question to make it easier to find as the discussion potentially grows. I'll make little edits as I go along there for updates and make a comment when I do anything major or could use some advice.
Igams Jul 15, 2017 @ 5:16am 
Hey gunnyer glad to hear your new rig is coming together nicely!

I'm super interested in this list your making. I just started using Rimsenal and the sheer amount of options are kind of baffling. I don't even know where to start in terms of outfitting my troops and getting some kind of standard gear setups going. Once you finish with this I'm sure this will be a huge help to the community.

I know you're not done with this yet but what's your general opinion so far? I'm trying to find a good Rimsenal alternative to the standard Assault/Charge rifle trooper and am having a hard time of it with these crazy Rimsenal factions leaving me with casualties almost every Raid while I'm still grasping the basics.

Last edited by Igams; Jul 15, 2017 @ 5:17am
gunnyer Jul 15, 2017 @ 1:06pm 
I haven't done too much testing with the JI or YP weapons yet because they require a large stockpile of material to build, but the Charge Driver wins almost hands down for when the enemies get up in your grill and you don't want to start a melee. The Anti-Material Rifle has the best range and highest damage per shot, so it's good to have 1 unit with it for standoff capability, but you probably want most of your snipers to be using the Smart Sniper Rifle since its got the same range as the Sniper Rifle and has very powerful accuracy buffs on it.
I haven't found a clear winner in the more standard infantry role yet because their stats are often very similar and there's so many to deal with, but out of what I've tested so far the TE Kinetic Rifle has the higest DPS, and the JI Molten Rifle, GD Modular Rifle, and ordinary Assault Rifle have the best range. While the JI Molten Rifle probably has the bes range and DPS combo, the GD Modular Rifle can put the most rounds down range, potentially generating a higher DPS simply through more probability tests to hit the target with smaller amounts of damage.
Igams Jul 18, 2017 @ 11:27pm 
Interesting. I think I'm gonna make a world just to test some of these combos out and go wild with dev mode.
TheVictoryKiwi Aug 17, 2017 @ 6:33pm 
Hi there, I actually started another descution like this but more to do with what the mod guide and chart on google docs doesn't tell you and the weapons in action, though I wish I had read this first. If you are interested in data concerning how the Yunhwa weapons work and how any of the other weapons work, I've done pretty decent testing on the weapons as of late.

I'm not sure about DPS though, I've definitely figured out some of what weapons work best for which scenerios but I haven't compiled DPS statisctics like this, is all of this tested or based on stats on paper? Also, did you use the different power armors in these tests or take into account their bonuses?

I can say that Jotun is the best branch against mechanoids, Yunhwa is best against animals or soft-targets and Graydale benefits allot from the relyable accuracy stats. As for the best rifle I'm not sure... I'd imagine it would really all differ based on target type and size but I don't think the Hrunting Molten Rifle will ever let you down. The Frost Shard Rifle is good against soft-body targets and usually downs enemies more often than kills them, fires more often with decent DPS but lacks the optimimal range expected of an assault rifle and is utterly useless against mechanoids and higher ranked Federation pawns.

I think a Hrunting would do well in most scenerios, even against animals which are Jotun weapons' weakness it does fairly decently. I have yet to compare that to a Burst Charger though. Against a full-fledged Federation army with Peacekeepers and Peacemongers however, always use Tisiphone, their usefulness is in their lore on google docs.

As for melee weapons, I tested a Legendary Assault Hammer vs a Legendary Vibrosword on a pawn with 20 in melee stat and bionic upgrades: at maximum potential the Assault Hammer outpreforms due to its greater damage only when the first two hits either kill or neutralize most of the danger in melee range, the Vibrosword surprisingly takes the cake when dealing with enemies who may last longer or are soft-bodied due to how fast they attack and thus a greater chance of cutting off or disabling body parts. The other two melee options are better used just for their stat bonuses if you are also using the Sidearms mod.
This was also tested against mechanoids and I would not suggest using an Assault Hammer against Scythers since they will out-dps you and kill you, a Vibrosword will more often disable their blades and make them for less dangerous to fight at melee distance.
Last edited by TheVictoryKiwi; Aug 19, 2017 @ 6:28am
TheVictoryKiwi Aug 17, 2017 @ 6:38pm 
Originally posted by Opossum Boy:
As of right now, it seems the best weapon company to work with by far is Joutun Industry; i've used all four, and shard weapons generally aren't lethal enough to deal with mechanoids or manhunters, (though this is good when you need humanoid prisoners), and while graydale is good, it's obviously meant to be a placeholder until you get set for better weapons. I have yet to use the hunter weapons in a colony, that's my next goal.

I'd love to see some proper testing, though. As of right now, I haven't been getting very difficult raids at all, even though I have almost ten thousand silver, I'm still getting federation raids of only auxillary pistol soldiers and bombers, and I have yet to see a single ogron from the ferals. All I know is the JI can absolutely destroy most of my enemies before they even breach the first barrack, and that's what matters, so i'm putting my money on JI sweeping the competition.
Graydale weapons seem to be the most useful for a permadeath, no save-reloading, "the way it was meant to be played" Rimworld playthrough. The main weapons lack any quality modifiers, meaning they will never have horrible accuracy, combined with their power armor they are almost always accurate at their optimal distance from target. I think they are meant to emphasise reliability and adaptability as well as reduced cost, but yeah they pale in comparison to what the other weapons can do in their specialized fields.

As for the Federation, when you eventually face Peacemakers, Snipers, Peacemongers and other horrible things, Tisiphone weapons and especially their armor do much better than Jotun's. Peacemongers especially have a ton of resistance to normal bullet damage but are easily shredded by kinetic/blunt damage, a good Kinetic Lancer will destroy them in seconds, an army with them will annihilate any Federation raid.
Last edited by TheVictoryKiwi; Aug 17, 2017 @ 6:46pm
gunnyer Aug 19, 2017 @ 2:43am 
@TheVictoryKiwi I would like to see your data on Yunhwa Precision weapons, I haven't done much with those because of their range and damage, while I normaly focus on knocking out targets in one shot before they enter their own firing ranges. Raiders also don't really use them, which is both a boon and a shame, so I never pick them up as drops.
I also wasn't aware that there was a google docs, which I'll have to go find and look at.

To calulate DPS I just add the Warmup and Cooldown times together and divide the Damage by that value. For burst weapons, I also take into account the number of shots and their rounds per minute (rpm); multiplying the damage by the number of shots and dividing that by the rpm(in seconds), then dividing it all by the combined Warmup and Cooldown times.

I'm not really looking too deaply into melee weapons because I try to knock out targets at standoff range and use an embrasures mod to keep them at bay. So I don't have many enemies I have to melee unless there's an infestation, in which I generally find that the Aussault Hammer worked well. Again, I try to stay out of melee range, so most of the melee expert's job is to destroy the hives, which the Aussault Hammer definetely does the best, followed by the baton weapon used by the Federation, and the Vibrosword takes significantly longer to do the job.
Melee weapons damage per hit also varies depending on the quality of construction, so it's really difficult to say that one weapon always trumps another and is a clear victor. Gun's quality however, only affects their accuracy, which also degrades as the weapon's durability degrades. So it's easier to give a general ballpark range for their accuracy, with concrete damage capabilities assuming 100% accuracy.
TheVictoryKiwi Aug 19, 2017 @ 3:48am 
@gunnyer sure, though I don't have any sheets or anything with math on the Yunhwa weapons. If you check out the discussion I made though I typed up some test results on how they preform in actual combat and in which scenerios they are effective, albeit it's a little bit vague and not as big a test as I would want to counduct but I'm not up for testing weapons across 100 fights for each enemy type lol. I used the Prepare Carefully mod and just set up a firing area with copies of the same pawn set to specified stats and traits (though I didn't test for Careful Shooter, Brawler or Trigger Finger), in that mod I can just start with stuff or I just use devmode to spawn weapons, makes testing allot easier. The firing area was somewhat flat but I did do some seperate tests using just the base map to test how well the weapons work within actual combat scenerios and not just a firing range.

I have done some math though, the problem I've found with making comparisons on paper is I've gotten different results in actual combat scenerios. Jotun fails in several areas in a place like the Jungle, the low fire rate and abundance of trees that get in the way can lead to a larger chance of the pawns missing until the enemy is too close for comfort, I end up having to resort to clearing tons of trees on a regular basis to keep Jotun arms functioning at their best. Yunhwa however doesn't require that. If it's anything soft-bodied then Swarmers will either kill or down them fast reguardless of trees, Vector-shots even more so but at an uncomfortable distance. Although the DPS on some of these weapons seems high, their actual DPS in combat changes based on environment and enemy size and speed, I think this is why Jotun weapons are fantastic at destroying mechanoids but poor aside from the Fafnir Shotgun for taking down animal raids.

This data is very useful though since it will still be helpful even when actual results varry. I did not think to calculate the DPS in that way so I'd be intersted to see what everything else looks like. May I suggest checking what differences the armors make to the DPS of the weapons? Unfortunately their stats aren't up on the google docs but they definitely change how effective a weapon is. I can put up their stats here if you want.

Yeah, I don't prefer melee either, I mostly just have melee specialists for fun if I ever have them or if I get a good pawn that has the Brawler trait.

I'm not that familliar with fighting mega-insects since I forgot to test for them and don't usually fight them since I do everything I can to prevent an infestation (which is probably why I forgot them lol). I assume though since megascarabs have a 40% sharp resist but a 10% blunt resist that either Tisiphone or Federation weapons work best on them, and the blunt Assault Hammer would likely be best for them too, especially hives as you've said since actual DPS for the hammer only seems to become less than the Vibrosword's after probably 8sec (I don't know the exact point there, just the fact that the Vibrosword eventually out-DPS's the Assault Hammer when wearing Close Combat armor).
The main advantage of a Vibrosword is just its much greater chance of disabling enemies, against a stationary, defensless object it's likely that the Assault Hammer does allot better. In actual combat allot of pawns using the Assault Hammer will beat an enemy pawn more efficiently than with a Vibrosword only if they can kill them quick enough or dodge enough attacks. A Vibrosword's sole reason for being better is that chance to disable, it makes melee combat allot safer when the fight drags on, though tbh my melee specialist carries both weapons thanks to the Sidearm mod so I can have him switch when necessary.
Last edited by TheVictoryKiwi; Aug 19, 2017 @ 4:02am
TheVictoryKiwi Aug 19, 2017 @ 3:53am 
@gunnyer As for Yunhwa... (sorry these are so long)

Basically Yunhwa is just good for soft body targets that prefer to get in melee range or for when you want to capture a pawn via microwave cannons. However I wouldn't suggest using Yunhwa weapons alone against such enemies because should they survive long enough to reach melee range they can become problematic and result in some damage or casualties, so having a few snipers, longer range LMGs or rifles works well in tandem with Yunhwa arms. I found that where they shine comparitively is in instances with allot of enemy cover like trees and specifically against targets that are: fast and small, soft-body, soft-body melee, or are easily downed by pain. While they don't do well in dps in most cases they will down most unarmored enemies relatively fast due to their shard ammunition type, usually before they can reach melee distance. This leaves them to be finished off fairly easily afterwards. However against anything else Yunhwa struggles compared to all other arms.

In the case of some of the bigger, tankier animals they don't do as well as Jotun weapons either but better than vanilla weapons if your pawns are fast. If your playstyle is long-range combat though then don't use them save the Microwave Cannon for crowd control or capturing.
I'd say the star weapon in Yunhwa is either the Boreas Swarmer (Yunhwa's shotgun) or the Snow Blossom Dual Pistols, at their optimal distance, especially used in tandem with Yunhwa Nervesuits or Jotun Fire Support armors, they truly shred or neutralize any soft-bodied target in seconds, unless it's a rhyno or thrumbo. Essentially keep them for animal raids and with other weapons in tribal raids or pirate raids against non-armored targets but if those aren't a problem then don't bother with them.

There's more info in the discussion I posted though and the details of that test I did with the lvl10 pawn copies.
Last edited by TheVictoryKiwi; Sep 2, 2017 @ 7:04am
gunnyer Sep 7, 2017 @ 2:50pm 
I think I'm going to have to redo a lot of the DPS values. I tried to recreate my formula for calculating DPS from a burst weapon and couldn't figure out how to get the same results as before, meaning the original formula was wrong, or I just don't remember what it could actually be.

I did mention in my last post how I was calculating DPS, but I tried using that on weapons I already put in and it didn't get the same answer, so obviously the burst formula was wrong.


EDIT: I looked up an actual formula(which may still be incorrect) for DPS.
The only apparent difference between what I was doing previously and this is that I did (B*D) instead of (B+D). I don't know if I want/should "fix" my personal formula or leave it as-is.

R = reload time
B = bullets in magazine
F = bullets per second
D = damage per bullet
DPS = (B+D)/(R+B/F)
Last edited by gunnyer; Sep 7, 2017 @ 3:03pm
Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Per page: 1530 50