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Dota 2 >  Workshop > Nye's Workshop > Dota 2 Horde Mode > Discussions
Dota 2 Horde Mode
Description Discussions163 Comments1645 Change Notes
SiEgE Jan 27, 2016 @ 2:33am
Common mistakes and bad moves.
If you're new, you would want to read this, because that can save your game from bashful fails. All the bumps I've got through, I'm gona enlist there.

Hero pick related:
- "Pick Axe!" - yes, this gamemode is pretty rewarding, when it comes to playing as carry heroes.. though its not always true. I've won a game as Pugna, with Sven and Witch Doctor in my team, each having their own lane.
- No strategy picking - Sometimes, you'd like to pick a support with AoE spells, because your team is full of squishy agi carries. Also, there should be atleast 1 anti-boss hero in your team. Such heroes are: Lifestealer, Doom, Death Prophet, Troll Warlord, Phantom Lancer and few others.

Player behaviour related:
- Leaving your lane to help other lanes - Its a good thing.. if you know how long you should help before going back.. Some people just leave their lanes forever, allowing creeps to destroy towers and barracks.
- Forcing others off, so you can solo - Solo is always a neat thing to have, but you should never expect it as granted.
- "WTF!!! *ping**ping**ping**ping*..." - Like, seriously.. don't do it.
- "This pick is ♥♥♥♥, I'll leave now." - No axe or centaur may make some people sad. Don't be sad this bad, its just a game. You've came here to have a challenge, didn't you?

Item build related:
- NOT buying stout shield\poor mans shield on melee heroes - there is no reason not to. It doubles, triples your potential health pool or simply makes you invulnerable at the starting phase of the game.
- Ignoring your armor - I've seen lots of people who stack 3 Hearts of Tarrasque, go into the biggest creep wave, dying there instantly. All because they had around 5-8 armor.
- Stacking Hearts of Tarrasque - Is a pretty big mistake alright. Not to mention that its just a waste of money and slots. If you want to increase your health pool and regen, you can buy Boots of Strenght, which in addition, will grant you some attack speed as well.
- Buying useless items - Sange and Yasha, Diffusal blade, Vanguard could be easily replaced. Instead of SNY buy Power Boots, Instead of Diffusal buy Daedalus, Instead of Vanguard buy Assault Cuirass. Manta style is pretty useless too.
Last edited by SiEgE; Jan 29, 2016 @ 3:28am
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Vaxxvirus Jan 27, 2016 @ 2:58pm 
I love this but I'd like to argue a point for Diffusal and Manta Style - They work wonders on Naga Siren.
#1
SiEgE Jan 27, 2016 @ 3:25pm 
Originally posted by Vaxxvirus:
I love this but I'd like to argue a point for Diffusal and Manta Style - They work wonders on Naga Siren.
They aren't as effective as Daedalus or Boots of Agility could be. Not to mention, that Lithe boots do real wonders on any illusion hero.
#2
Vaxxvirus Jan 27, 2016 @ 6:16pm 
Lithe on Illusions? That sounds brilliant and I never realized that.
#3
Vaxxvirus Jan 27, 2016 @ 6:26pm 
I checked the wiki. Desolate doesn't proc on illusions.
#4
SiEgE Jan 27, 2016 @ 11:25pm 
Originally posted by Vaxxvirus:
I checked the wiki. Desolate doesn't proc on illusions.
I recommend Lithe because its useful when you focus single target, like bosses or any other strong creeps. Hero applies Lithe armor reduction, so illusions hit the target harder.
Last edited by SiEgE; Jan 28, 2016 @ 4:44am
#5
Nye  [developer] Jan 29, 2016 @ 2:17am 
Nice guide! We're working on getting all of these useless items reworked/replaced
#6
Vaxxvirus Jan 29, 2016 @ 2:41am 
Thanks for clarification, Siege. And, Nye, what part of the game do you want the most feedback on? I have a few friends suggesting things to me that I plan on posting
#7
Gob Bot Jan 29, 2016 @ 5:22am 
You should point out stacking Solar Crest is insanely efficient for negating damage. Usually when I play spellcasters I take Shivas/Octarine + as many solar crests as I can stuff into the build so I can tank waves.

You also should point out Shivas negates a lot of damage, but people usually think it's useless and don't build it. One shivas can make a big difference between destroying creeps and being destroyed.

You should also note that people have strange tendencies to build vlads on heroes that are gold hungry. They also have strange tendencies to build half dps on a semi-caster, resulting in no damage, no tankiness and no utility.

Or the fact that many people still don't know there's sideshop at the bottom lane, and use the courier to ferry stuff when other lanes are struggling early on.

Or the fact people play base defense with heroes that have no AoE, don't build AoE instead of taking towers. Coming back to basae to kill 1 or 2 creeps before dying isn't really helpful when you could have just killed towers isntead.

Or the fact people sometimes do not distribute gold over their team. They just soak all the gold on heroes that are gold inefficient but farm pretty fast. Or worst still they continue sapping gold when their build maxes out.

Or that the sole person that can tank the waves leaves the base to backdoor, resulting in a quick loss as the rest of his team dies to the waves. I know, we have to destroy the dire ancient to win, but if our ancient goes down first there's no point.
#8
SiEgE Jan 29, 2016 @ 1:06pm 
2 Gob Bot
There is basically 4 ways to become an infinite tank:
- Overleech damage done by creeps with lifesteal(or with octarine).
- Have TONS of armor.
- Have some sick health regen.
- Have so much evasion, that creeps are unable to do you any harm.
I personally prefer overleeching, since its all about dealing damage, while granting tankiness as a reward for proper builds, timings and control.

Not only Shiva, but Radiance with its 17% blindness effect too, Also, Crystal Maiden's first skill and ulti, Lich and Ice troll's ice armors. Tidehunter's third skill and Dragon Knight's first skill turns bosses into harmless puppies. Elder Titan's third skill(aura) reduces armor on bosses down to 0.

Vladmir is the best lifesteal there is, since its aura stacks with any Unique Attack Modifiers, like Mjollnir, Desolator\Lithe boots and etc. I'd say, any carry, ranged or melee, should get Vlads(with the only 2 exceptions. MoM on glass cannon heroes, and HoO for tanky heroes).
With Vlads, you can stack lifesteal up to 32% per hit, when combined with any other lifesteal items, or low-level Wraith King's aura.

P.S. One more useless item: Eye of Skadi.
Last edited by SiEgE; Jan 29, 2016 @ 1:07pm
#9
Gob Bot Jan 30, 2016 @ 7:15am 
Vlads is a bad item not because it sucks, but because building vlads when you have no damage, is the same as building leech when you have no damage. You then struggle along the entire damage curve and then fail to farm fast. As a result, your gold share shrinks as other people have to kill the creepps you can't kill. It puts you far behind for its gold cost. Its stats are similar to Helm of Dominator, but it takes up one slot, making it strain your slots, whereas HoD can upgrade into something more useful.

Best on supports, not as a carry. At least, as a first item. I have never seen people sensibly build Vlads as a 3rd or 4th item, always a Vlads rush and then wondering why the game is so hard.
#10
SiEgE Jan 30, 2016 @ 8:36am 
Originally posted by Gob Bot:
Vlads is a bad item not because it sucks, but because building vlads when you have no damage, is the same as building leech when you have no damage. You then struggle along the entire damage curve and then fail to farm fast. As a result, your gold share shrinks as other people have to kill the creepps you can't kill. It puts you far behind for its gold cost. Its stats are similar to Helm of Dominator, but it takes up one slot, making it strain your slots, whereas HoD can upgrade into something more useful.

Best on supports, not as a carry. At least, as a first item. I have never seen people sensibly build Vlads as a 3rd or 4th item, always a Vlads rush and then wondering why the game is so hard.
Leech is always supposed to be combined with armor boosts, otherwise, once you stop attacking, you'll die instantly.
Yep, rushing Vlads is a pretty bad idea. Thats why I only afford Ring of Basilius+Headdress. Ring of basilius gives aura armor and +6 to damage. Headdress's +3 hp regen is pretty enough to cut on few health potions and tangos for me and my teammate. Mask is only supposed to be bought after you finish your boots(power boots or phase boots).

Vladmir allows me to stack lifesteal with Desolator. Minus armor is the best choice for taking down bosses and those tanky golems with my team around.
Also, having BF with Desolator can actually increase the output damage that goes with cleave, since its based on main target's armor. Just pick the target with lowest armor, and you'll see how better you'll start to cleave through everything around.

3rd-4th item is pretty damn late. Best Vladmir is early Vladmir.
Last edited by SiEgE; Feb 15, 2016 @ 3:19am
#11
Kimber Prime Jan 30, 2016 @ 6:11pm 
Originally posted by Nye:
Nice guide! We're working on getting all of these useless items reworked/replaced
Would also be great if heart could get an upgrade option. =)
#12
Lions Defeated by Rookie QB Jan 31, 2016 @ 8:03pm 
I'm not as crazy about vlads as I am about Helm of the dominator, since it offers armor, lifesteal, and damage for the early game, while building into a satanic in the late game gives more health and crazy lifesteal on the active ability is used. Any time I'm trying to be tanky, I usually go with Helm.
#13
SiEgE Feb 3, 2016 @ 7:59am 
More bad moves:
- Ignoring stat items - As "lame" as they may look, they are actually the cheapest and the most effective way to improve your survivability during the starting phase. Take a look, what are you gona get for around 930 gold(2 bracers on STR hero):
+ 228 to hp pool.
+ 18 damage.
+ 78 to mana pool.
+ 6 to attack speed.
+ ~1 armor.

2 Wraith bands on AGI hero:
+ 114 to hp pool.
+ 18 damage.
+ 12 to attack speed.
+ 1,7 armor.
+ 78 to mana pool.

Thats pretty damn impressive, considering the cost is similar to 2 blades of attack, which only guarantee +18 damage.
#14
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