Dota 2
Dota 2 Horde Mode
Diellan  [developer] Mar 15, 2016 @ 1:26pm
v1.14 Discussion
1.14g
Heroes:
// Clockwerk
-- Increased mana cost of Rocket Flare to 60/75/90/105
// Dark Seer
-- Vacuum cooldown reduced to 14, damage increased to 100/180/260/340
// Disruptor
-- Increased thunder strike radius to 400, and strikes twice as fast
// Night Stalker
-- Enabled!
-- Void deals damage in an aoe around the target
-- Crippling Fear applies its effects in an aoe around the target
-- Crippling Fear cooldown increased to 20 seconds
// Phantom Assassin
-- Stifling Dagger damage increased to 100/160/220/280
// Puck
-- Illusory Orb damage increased to 100/180/260/320
-- Illusory Orb cooldown reduced to 12/11/10/9 seconds
-- Waning Rift cooldown reduced to 12 seconds
// Riki
-- Blink Strike damage increased to 120/180/240/300
-- Blink Strike deals damage in an area around the target (including backstab!)
-- Tricks of the Trade cooldown reduced to 40/30/20 seconds
-- Tricks of the Trade duration reduced to 3 seconds
-- Tricks of the Trade strike interval reduced from 1 second to 0.75/0.5/0.35
-- Tricks of the Trade max attacks per unit increased from 5/6/7 to 5/7/9
// Skywrath Mage
-- Arcane Bolt base damage increased to 60/120/180/240
-- Concussive Shot damage increased to 100/180/260/320
-- Concussive Shot area of effect increased to 300/350/400/450

1.14f
General:
-- Mech units no longer have demolish
-- Removed the attack speed debuff from the mech catapult liquid fire
-- Reduced damage of all mech units
-- Normalized attack speed of all mech units
-- Reduced hit points of hulk units (since they now have armor and spell resistance)
-- Mech units now actually drop gold bags
-- Reduced damage of mini-slark headshot

Heroes:
// Clockwerk
-- Battery Assault cooldown reduced to 12 seconds, damage increased to 40/60/80/100
-- Rocket Flare cooldown reduced to 10 seconds, mana cost increased
-- Hookshot cooldown reduced to 40/30/20
-- Scepter Hookshot cooldown reduced to 12/9/6

// Mirana
-- Starfall damage increased to 100/200/300/400
-- Moonlight Shadow now grants 100% evasion instead of invisibility
-- Moonlight Shadow cooldown reduced to 90/75/60
-- Moonlight Shadow duration reduced to 3/4/5

// Phantom Assassin
-- Reduced stifling dagger cooldown to 8 seconds

1.14e
-- Satyr mana burn reduced from 100 to 20
-- Purge Satyrs no longer have enough mana to cast their spell twice, but will regenerate mana
-- Purge Satyrs now drop small gold bags upon death
-- Increased damage and reduced stun duration of centaur stomp

1.14d
-- Fixed dragon javelin

1.14c
General:
-- Small harpy chain lightning damage reduced further, cooldown increased
-- Mech units no longer have mana break
-- Mech units have Pulverize (passive spell resistance and bonus damage vs buildings)
-- Mech units have Arcane Armor (new passive that increases armor and spell resistance - yes, this stacks with Pulverize)
-- Giant catapults gain Pulverize
-- Satyr units should no longer stack their purges
-- Centaur units should not use their stomp until 2 targets are within melee range
-- Mini-slarks now have Sniper Headshot instead of Slardar Bash

Items:
Quelling Blade
-- Now grants 10% cleave damage!
Quelling Axe
-- Made from combining a quelling blade and broadsword
-- Grants 20% cleave damage
Battlefury
-- Now made from a claymore, a quelling blade 2, and a perseverence
Orb of Venom
-- Now deals its poison damage and slow in an area around the target!

1.14b
-- Reduced strength of mech units' mana burn
-- Small harpies hit points reduced from 500 to 400, XP bounty increased
-- Did a pass over XP values of enemies, increasing several XP bounties
-- Fixed some unit AIs that resulted in standing around instead of using abilities
-- Black dragons no longer have aura armor, have Dragon's Blood instead
-- Reduced mana pool of small satyr from 1000 to 300

1.14a
-- Reduced melee damage and max mana of medium Satyrs
-- Small harpies now use normal chain lightning instead of mega hawk version

1.14

General:
-- Complete rework of spawn and difficulties!
-- Hard difficulty now grants bonus damage dealt and damage reduction to all creeps
-- Many enemy creeps missing abilities were granted them (most passive, some active)
-- Losing towers and barracks now grants the enemy team buffs
-- Global defense buff now grants spell resistance instead of max hp (it still grants armor)
-- In short... game should be harder for everybody

Creeps:
-- Big spider gains Incapacitating Bite
-- Centaurs gain stomp
-- Centaur boss gains Slardar bash
-- Baby Kappapault gains Liquid Fire
-- Zombies all have poisonous attacks
-- Berserkers gain Fervor
-- Bear boss gains thunder clap
-- Satyrs gain regen aura
-- Wildkin carry toughness aura
-- Corpse Lord gains Decay
-- Harpies gain chain lightning
-- Treants gain dragon blood
-- Gnolls gain gnoll poison
-- Wolves (including the boss!) gain critical strike and invisibility
-- Mechs gain mana break
-- Treant boss gains dragon blood and sprout
-- Kobolds gain the taskmaster aura
-- Kobold Archer boss gains true sight, mana burn
-- Medium Satyr gains mana burn
-- Ogres gain frost armor
-- Ogre boss gains Fireblast
-- Roshan boss has spell block, slam, and bash
-- Small satyr gains purge
-- Shrooms gain Entangle
-- Demons gain flaming fists and immolation aura
-- Black dragon gains dragonhide aura and fireball
-- All ghosts get frost attack and blur
-- Lizards gain slam, frenzy, and wardrums aura
-- Small nyx gain impale
-- Rock golems gain avalanche

Heroes:
// Bounty Hunter
-- Shuriken Toss bounce cap reduced to 9
-- Shuriken Toss no longer bounces to buildings
// Silencer
-- Global Silence should no longer make players deaf
Last edited by Diellan; Mar 28, 2016 @ 6:12am
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Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
DankBudd Mar 15, 2016 @ 3:14pm 
im disgusted by the mana burn on mechs. it was already a wave that most new players lost on.
only played one match so far, but this update seems like cancer.
Last edited by DankBudd; Mar 15, 2016 @ 3:19pm
Diellan  [developer] Mar 15, 2016 @ 3:50pm 
Thanks for the feedback. They seem to be using the wrong mana break (they're using the buffed AM version instead of the normal one), so I'll reduce that - they show up too early to be that nasty.

What I'd really like to see about is the learning curve: most PvE mods are very hard and require multiple attempts to learn and practice before you finally beat it. The mechs, even as they are, can be beaten once you know what to expect (melee units that burn mana), so I'm truly interested in seeing how long it takes before the game becomes easy again (probably my number one feedback about Horde Mode is that it's too easy).
Dumbo Mar 15, 2016 @ 3:58pm 
also the purge, ruins ember early. by dispeling his flame guard..
TLP Mar 15, 2016 @ 4:33pm 
Just played a game with windrunner solo bot, thought it would be easy. All of a sudden the ranged satyr's purge me and force me to blink, while their friends drain all my mana in one fell swoop. Just 3 get in range, 0 mana. Boom, no spells, no wave clear, towers and raxes die, gg. Yeah... maybe a little too much. Mana drain is a pretty big deal, this is too much.
Dumbo Mar 15, 2016 @ 4:36pm 
If people complain about it being to easy, u can add more levels insteed, like Very hard, Insane, Impossible. By increasing the low levels, it ruins it abit, since u have to play a correct hero to have a chance.

I love the game btw! :) you have done a nice job!
SiEgE Mar 15, 2016 @ 5:42pm 
Awesome update! So much new stuff! Old "always win" strategies getting smashed in pieces.
Since people can be prejudicious a little, so don't be afraid of negative commentaries.. Just let players get used to changes. :D
Last edited by SiEgE; Mar 15, 2016 @ 5:45pm
cats_on_strings Mar 15, 2016 @ 6:48pm 
The bash the Shadow lurker things do is just way too strong. With all of them swarming they can nuke a hero almost instantly.
Just won a round in medium diff. after continuous rounds of defeats in 1.14b. Not sure about mech wave since it was a none-mech wave round, but in general it was alright.
The skills added to the creeps make the waves a bit more annoying/difficult, especially on bot where it seems to have all sorts of purges/mana breaks/slows etc, but it definitely is playable compared to how it was in 1.14b.
The earlier rounds seems to be more challenging in a good way, whereas mid-game rounds are still a bit of a meh-maybe a bit of buffs to creeps that spawn around 20 min-30/40min?
The giant golem boss seems to be a potato still-doesn't do anything other than standing in front of heroes while getting beaten down to death.
Unsure whether it has to do with number of heroes present-illusions etc.-but the smaller golems that spawn after death are fine.
Vaxxvirus Mar 16, 2016 @ 11:53pm 
Various heroes are due for some balance now. Ursa in particular was weak already, and now... Well. that was a waste of time. Anti-Mage burning more mana would be nice. An ult change or boost or both. There are many who are hit by the update.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ecstatic for this, but now the weakest hereos before are useless now. Let's get some balance feedback. This is good. With this spike, I think a more tempting choice than Poor Man's Shield, maybe an upgrade, would be the squishy hero's new core. With the skills now in play, magic resist is important. Maybe Poor Man's Shield and a cloak --> Enchanted Shield. A difficulty spike is great but as Dota tradition, keep the options to counter open!
Diellan  [developer] Mar 17, 2016 @ 12:20am 
I'm going to be out on vacation for the next week or two, but I'll be doing another balance pass then.
Vaxxvirus Mar 17, 2016 @ 12:44am 
Originally posted by Diellan:
I'm going to be out on vacation for the next week or two, but I'll be doing another balance pass then.
Hear that? This version is going to be live for a while. I'm gonna make a post about the current metagame in Horde Mode with the goal of making a tier list. We have time.
SiEgE Mar 17, 2016 @ 6:01am 
Originally posted by Vaxxvirus:
Various heroes are due for some balance now. Ursa in particular was weak already, and now... Well. that was a waste of time. Anti-Mage burning more mana would be nice. An ult change or boost or both. There are many who are hit by the update.
AM is supposed to be built with Vladmir+Moonshard, fast rapier would be a good idea too, then just add BF and lots of armor. Manaburn lifesteals the damage done(but only the lifesteal from auras, NOT items like dominator or MoM). His ulti is absolutely devastating! Especially if you apply it to a boss.. though you would love to have more supports and tanks in your team, since AM takes tons of gold before he can truly reveal his strenght(yeah, also his BAT).
Last edited by SiEgE; Mar 17, 2016 @ 6:04am
TLP Mar 18, 2016 @ 6:56am 
For some reason, I get the feeling that I am taking a LOT more damage in the early game than before. I'm not sure what it might be. Does the poison from the ranged creeps stack?

The lightning creeps in mid game who cast a chain lightning that does 80 damage are waaaaay too strong. The group-effect of some spells is in many cases very strong. For example, one golem who stuns you for 100 damage is one thing, when 5 golems chain stun you, that is dangerous. The creeps also are "perfect" casters, they cast exactly when you get in range, and often all at once.

The mana drain and purge combo is a fun killer combo. If you are melee bot, and try to get a last hit from behind the creep line, then you get multipurged, and slow down to a crawl, and your last hits are gone. Then you get mana drained, and no more last hits for you.

I don't mind when it is hard, but this is hard in a boring way. There is no way to avoid getting mana drained. There is no point in having mana regen, or a wand, because those mf:ers WAIT until you have mana to cast their drain.
SiEgE Mar 18, 2016 @ 9:15am 
Originally posted by TheLiquidPepper:
For some reason, I get the feeling that I am taking a LOT more damage in the early game than before. I'm not sure what it might be. Does the poison from the ranged creeps stack?

The lightning creeps in mid game who cast a chain lightning that does 80 damage are waaaaay too strong. The group-effect of some spells is in many cases very strong. For example, one golem who stuns you for 100 damage is one thing, when 5 golems chain stun you, that is dangerous. The creeps also are "perfect" casters, they cast exactly when you get in range, and often all at once.

The mana drain and purge combo is a fun killer combo. If you are melee bot, and try to get a last hit from behind the creep line, then you get multipurged, and slow down to a crawl, and your last hits are gone. Then you get mana drained, and no more last hits for you.

I don't mind when it is hard, but this is hard in a boring way. There is no way to avoid getting mana drained. There is no point in having mana regen, or a wand, because those mf:ers WAIT until you have mana to cast their drain.
Most of troubles you describe right now are caused by lack of teamplay.

- Nope, poison does not stack.. Poison is the reason you feel damaged harder. Its actually negating your base hp regeneration, forcing you to buy more consumables.
- Lightning creeps are supposed to be countered by AoE casts. Thats why you should bring AoE Support with you. 80 damage is kinda hard, 60 dmg would do.
- Tanks are best at dealing with golems.
- Mana drain+purge situation is hilarious! This lane is pretty simple, but is not supposed to be like a free farm simulator, or a lasthit tutorial. But lowering the amount of mana burning creeps, also delaying it to appear later in the game, would be nice.
- If you need mana - buy Soul ring.
Last edited by SiEgE; Mar 18, 2016 @ 9:20am
TLP Mar 18, 2016 @ 9:59am 
Soul ring does not work, nor does wand, since they mana drain the instant that you get mana.
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