Dota 2
Dota 2 Horde Mode
Vaxxvirus Feb 5, 2016 @ 8:00pm
Suggest Your Rework or Buff here
Edited; Suggest a change you think would benefit a hero in the mode in this thread.
Last edited by Vaxxvirus; Mar 6, 2016 @ 9:06pm
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Showing 1-15 of 91 comments
SiEgE Feb 5, 2016 @ 11:38pm 
Originally posted by Vaxxvirus:
I'll start: Bloodseeker.
Q is good.
W would benefit from a buff or added effect: Perhaps add a bleed or lifesteal like Open Wounds?
E is worthless. I suggest stacks based on how many last hits he has, granting movement speed and attack. Fitting for a blood god's avatar.
R is worthless; I suggest a passive with attack speed and/or lifesteal.
E can work just great by reducing range of effect, by allowing it to proc on creeps, also reducing its bonuses down to 5-10% of previous effect per creep.
R can be AoE, so with Octarine it will actually heal BS. ALOT.
Last edited by SiEgE; Feb 6, 2016 @ 12:33am
Vaxxvirus Feb 6, 2016 @ 1:00am 
I like these ideas too! Cool idea.
Vaxxvirus Feb 7, 2016 @ 12:09am 
Silencer:
Q seems okay.
W looks awesome for an INT carry but would need a stack system based on creeps.
E seems alright.
R seems like it would very likely crash the game (probably why he's removed) and if kept vanilla seems drastically too strong. I would like to see a useful stun or maybe a damage boost here. It could also be a significant INT boost, like Drow's Marksmanship! Just the thought of having Silencer with an ability like that makes me drool. My proposed rework:

Q: vanilla.
W: stacks altered to have a (possibly high) cap and grant .1 intelligence per creep kill.
E: vanilla
R: Knowledge is Power: Int boost of 30/50/70. Maybe increase stack damage instead?
Vaxxvirus Feb 7, 2016 @ 12:36am 
Skywrath Mage:
Q should have a greater int-to-damage ratio, not very helpful.
W doesn't need anything besides lower cooldown and cost to be useful in farming.
E is pretty good but would fit the mode better if it also hit surrounding targets (Like you did with Magic Missiles and Wraithfire Blast.)
R needs to hurt creeps and may benefit from a buff, but probably not necessary

Proposed Buffs:
Q: Bonus damage per int boosted to 3, making lv 25 damage 519 without items.
W: CD 8/6/4/2. 50 mana.
E: Target Area.
R: Creeps targeted.

He would be a strong caster rewarded by purchase of INT items. With +200 int from items, that's 1k damage per Q with a miniscule cooldown from Octarine Core. Bosses beware!
Vaxxvirus Feb 7, 2016 @ 12:43am 
Bane:
Q seems massively useful versus bosses alone; Possibly nerfed or AoE would be better.
W is also good for sustain, but seeing the rest of the kit may need buffed. Lower CD?
E does far too low damage to help in a fight (that your phys carries can't attack.) Damage boosted.
R is the big one. Increase channel time by degrees!

Proposed Buffs:
Q: Vanilla or change; I'm rather unsure.
W: CD 4.
E: 80 damage.
R: 20 channel time.

Possibly still weak, but it'd be worth trying.
Vaxxvirus Feb 7, 2016 @ 12:47am 
Ogre Magi is the simplest hero to make stronger; Just improve the multicast chance! If possible, maybe extend Multicast to items like Dagon?
Vaxxvirus Feb 7, 2016 @ 12:47am 
The latest update got me much more interested in INT carrying, as you may guess from the posts.
Diellan  [developer] Feb 7, 2016 @ 8:30am 
Ogre Magi is an annoying one to do, because if I want to make any changes that aren't strictly numerical (like turning a single target ability into an AoE), I have to rebuild all of his abilities in LUA to get multicast to work. I really want him in the mode, but without an AoE Fireblast, he won't be able to work I think.

Skywrath will also require me to rebuild most of his powers, because so many of them are single target or only work on heroes, and the Ult in particular divides its damage among targets, which is exactly what you don't want in this mode.

Silencer is probably going to be one of the next heroes I get working, and his int steal might just go away (he'll get more int per level, probably, in place of it).
SiEgE Feb 7, 2016 @ 9:55am 
Originally posted by Vaxxvirus:
Bane:
Q seems massively useful versus bosses alone; Possibly nerfed or AoE would be better.
W is also good for sustain, but seeing the rest of the kit may need buffed. Lower CD?
E does far too low damage to help in a fight (that your phys carries can't attack.) Damage boosted.
R is the big one. Increase channel time by degrees!

Proposed Buffs:
Q: Vanilla or change; I'm rather unsure.
W: CD 4.
E: 80 damage.
R: 20 channel time.

Possibly still weak, but it'd be worth trying.
-120 damage when applied on Rosh with 1215 damage is hardly considered OP. Make longer CD, same duration, twice-trice the damage reduction.
W does pure damage.. make it 500 and AoE.
E Make it cause chain reactions(nightmare'd creep applies nightmare to any creep nearby. Creeps can be a part of chainreaction only once per cast.)
R Remove channeling and make it AoE.
SiEgE Feb 7, 2016 @ 10:01am 
Originally posted by Diellan:
Silencer is probably going to be one of the next heroes I get working, and his int steal might just go away (he'll get more int per level, probably, in place of it).
Allow Silencer to collect "mini-intelligence".
4 mini-intelligences equal 1 normal intelligence.
Silencer have to be near creeps or get lasthits on them to gain mini-intelligence. Collection AoE should be equal to his attack range(probably scaling with range increasing items like dragon lance).
Vaxxvirus Feb 7, 2016 @ 8:34pm 
Originally posted by Diellan:
Ogre Magi is an annoying one to do, because if I want to make any changes that aren't strictly numerical (like turning a single target ability into an AoE), I have to rebuild all of his abilities in LUA to get multicast to work. I really want him in the mode, but without an AoE Fireblast, he won't be able to work I think.

That does seem annoying, I barely dabble in code and it seems a bit much. Have you considered checking other customs' files for what they did as a similar fix?

Originally posted by Diellan:
Skywrath will also require me to rebuild most of his powers, because so many of them are single target or only work on heroes, and the Ult in particular divides its damage among targets, which is exactly what you don't want in this mode.

Maybe I'm just naive or unskilled but his ult seems like a wonderful farming tool, where the others would do well vs armored targets/bosses. He would scale well too.

Of course, there would still be work to be done but his ult wouldn't have to have the same role in Horde that it does in vanilla DotA. Doubling the length of his ult would make it deal 560 damage even split 5 ways and lategame that might be able to take out full waves, especially with int boots, veil, arcane rune...

Originally posted by Siege:
Allow Silencer to collect "mini-intelligence".
4 mini-intelligences equal 1 normal intelligence.
Seems just like .25 INT per last hit. Might grow too fast.
Last edited by Vaxxvirus; Feb 7, 2016 @ 8:38pm
Vaxxvirus Feb 7, 2016 @ 11:07pm 
Following your idea with Silencer,
Originally posted by Diellan:
his int steal might just go away (he'll get more int per level, probably, in place of it).
W: Glaives would grant 30/50/70 INT with levels.
R: Depending on what role you want him to take, you could try a lot of things.
Greater Arcane Curse - as vanilla with a large AoE instead of global
Mind Blank - Stacks of negative magic resistance on hit; maybe 5/15/25 max
True Wisdom - Allow Q and E to stack up like Fire Remnant or Shrapnel for multiple casts
Diellan  [developer] Feb 8, 2016 @ 1:18pm 
I tried looking at other people... and they usually don't allow Ogre Magi. I'll get to him, because he's one of my favorites (and I intend to allow everybody in the long run anyway).
Vaxxvirus Feb 11, 2016 @ 1:22pm 
Earth Spirit.
Q: Decent enough damage... Though, being a "smash," It would be better with AOE and with a remnant it should go through targets.
W: I'm not sure but it needs to do more damage or area damage to be worth it.
E: Seems well balanced already, I think.
D: Either more charges or make the charges more worth it to use.
F: Seems awesome for using on enemies for free charges.
R: Potential for farm, maybe?

I hate this hero but I have to say he could be very fun.
SiEgE Feb 11, 2016 @ 11:45pm 
Originally posted by Ghost 👻:
Earth Spirit.
Q: Decent enough damage... Though, being a "smash," It would be better with AOE and with a remnant it should go through targets.
W: I'm not sure but it needs to do more damage or area damage to be worth it.
E: Seems well balanced already, I think.
D: Either more charges or make the charges more worth it to use.
F: Seems awesome for using on enemies for free charges.
R: Potential for farm, maybe?

I hate this hero but I have to say he could be very fun.
If you hate the hero and\or never played it, you better not suggest then.
Better way is to suggest multiple ways of improvement for the heroes you main, that would be a truly valuable information.
Earth spirit needs no rework. Just buff few cds and thats it. He is already AoE based hero, just like Timbersaw.
Last edited by SiEgE; Feb 12, 2016 @ 12:04am
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