Dota 2
Dota 2 Horde Mode
Diellan  [developer] Jan 25, 2018 @ 10:12am
v1.25 Discussion
1.25g
Gold bag overhaul
Removed gold bag drops from non-boss creeps
Bosses (and mini-bosses) now drop a single gold chest (bag) worth 2500g (1000g)
Total chest/bag gold earned per player before the start of infinite waves is now 18000g
4p/5p maps: the new total is roughly the same as the average total before the changes
2p map: the new total is roughly double of the average total before the changes
These changes remove the substantial variation in gold earned from bags due to different wave combinations and different numbers of lanes on 4p/5p and 2p maps
Each money creep now drops a single gold coin worth 200g (same total gold value as before)
Rapier Ogre now drops a 2500g gold chest
Gold coins/bags/chests are no longer selleable

Auras
Blight aura redesigned: now gives a -2% health regen per second penalty in a 500 unit radius
Slight buffs to other auras

Items
Resonant Shard: a weaker version of Willful Resonance that builds into it
Willful Resonance: bonus to all stats increased from +25 to +30; main attack target magic damage bonus increased from +50 to +0.5*(base attack damage); splash damage slightly reduced; now requires a 1000g recipe
Cursed Rapier: health drain reduced from 6% to 5%; cooldown reduced from 5s to 3s; active ability no longer affects Spirit Bear; active modifier is now properly removed on unequip

Enemies
Kobold Guard boss now carries Dragon Javelin 5

1.25f
Drums no longer require charges and applies to all friendly units
Urn and Spirit Vessel charges fixed, which should remove lag on purchase
Viper's Poison Strike gives bonus damage based on the level of Nethertoxin once again (no changes to Nethertoxin itself)

1.25e
All Exalted Items buffed and recipe costs increased
Sacred Trident illusion fix
Willful Resonance redesigned to fix lag; now splashes some of the wielder's base attack damage as magic damage around the target and adds magic damage to the main attack
Cursed Rapier redesigned; now drains 6% of maximum health per second, but increases damage bonus by 20% of the amount drained; while active, the wielder is protected from all physical and magical damage
Disabled penalties until Valve fixes the crash bugs
Fix Ember Spirit's Fiery Remnants

1.25d
7.08 Parity!
Tweaks for performance
All changes propagated
Turned on AFK check
Turned on matchmaking penalties

1.25c
Fix to gold bags

1.25b
Fix to the new item causing a crash

1.25a
Gold bags should no longer break invisibility or channeling abilities (Weaver fans rejoice)

Items
Cursed Rapier: no longer drops on death
Sacred Trident: rewritten as datadriven with lua functions to fix all interactions with pure damage proc (does not stack, works properly on illusions, and works on hero creeps)
Willful Resonance: new item, battlefury alternative for rightclickers focused around magical damage

Difficulty
Auras return to Medium difficulty
Aura chance now scales with difficulty: 0%/9%/12%/15%
Bosses no longer spawn Mysterious Orbs; Rapier Ogre now drops 5 Mysterious Orbs

1.25
Difficulty
- Further scaling adjustments
- Aura chance from random 12% to pseudo-random 15% for more even aura distribution
- Creeps with auras give double their regular gold bounty

Items
Rapier and King Rapier removed
New Item: Cursed Rapier (Sacred Relic + Demon Edge + Mithril Hammer + Claymore)
New Item: Sacred Trident (MKB + Sacred Relic + Recipe)

9 New Exalted Items: upgraded versions of BKB, Spirit Vessel, Diffusal Blade, Armlet of Mordiggian, Solar Crest, Drum of Endurance, Echo Sabre, Phase Boots, and Heaven’s Halberd
Exalted items require the base item, a Mysterious Orb, and a recipe; fully shareable; cannot be sold nor destroyed

Heart: melee cooldown increased to 3 seconds, ranged cooldown increased to 5 seconds
Armor of Insight: 5% damage reduction transferred from passive to aura (10%/10% now)
Spirit Vessel: cooldown increased to 12
Urn/Spirit Vessel/Drums: charges removed

Heroes

Centaur
o Return Aura: Talent fixed
Dazzle
o Poison Touch: cooldown reduced to 13/12/11/10
Disruptor
o Level 25 Glimpse Talent replaced with 15s Spell Block
Elder Titan
o Earth Splitter: cooldown increased to 100/95/90
o Earth Splitter: damage reduced to 20%/25%/30%
Enigma
o Midnight Pulse: damage reduced to 1.5%/2.0%/2.5%/3.0%, capped at 150/200/250/300
o Black Hole: duration decreased to 5.0/5.5/6.0
o Black Hole: damage decreased to 150/225/300
Invoker
o Damage of most abilities decreased
Phantom Lancer
o All illusions spawned by his abilities deal 30% and take 300% damage
o Juxtapose: max illusions decreased to 3/4/5
Rubick
o Fade Bolt: hero damage reduction (works on Bosses) increased to 12/24/36/48
o Fade Bolt: creep damage reduction increased to 6/12/18/24
Skeleton King
o Mortal Strike makes a return without skeletons and instakill
Skywrath Mage
o Arcane Bolt: damage reduced to 60/80/100/120 and Int multiplier to 1.2
o Arcane Bolt: AOE behavior removed
o Arcane Bolt: now upgradable by Aghs, provides AOE behavior
o Arcane Bolt: mana cost increased to 75/90/105/120
o Concussive Shot: mana cost rescaled to 90/100/110/120
o Mystic Flare: cooldown increased to 30/20/10
o Mystic Flare: Talent fixed; Aghs duration reduced to 10
o Level 15 Arcane Bolt Talent replaced with +30% XP Gain
o Level 20 Concussive Shot Talent replaced with +10 Armor
Slark
o Essence Shift: Agility gain reduced to 2
o Essence Shift: duration increased to 8/16/24/32
o Essence Shift: each stack reduces base damage and attack speed by 1
Sniper
o Assassinate: Talent and Aghs fixed; cooldown increased to 25/20/15
Tidehunter
o Level 15 Anchor Smash Talent swapped with Level 20 Gush Talent
Underlord
o Atrophy Aura: damage reduction decreased to 4%/11%/18%/25%
Ursa
o Overpower: max attacks increased to 4/5/6/7
Venomancer
o Scourge Ward removed
Witch Doctor
o Maledict: bonus damage reduced to 15%/20%/25%/30%
o Paralyzing Cask: Talent fixed
o Death Ward: damage rescaled to 75/125/175
Zeus
o Static Field: damage decreased to 4%/5%/6%/7%
Enemies

Boss levels adjusted for more consistency
Wave 1-6 Bosses (Roshan to Spooky) now drop Mysterious Orbs
Rapier Ogre: inventory replaced, no longer drops Rapier
Rapier Ogre: now drops 3 Mysterious Orbs
Spooky: Base Attack Time reduced to 2.4
Spooky: Base Damage reduced to 250-300
Spooky is sad that his Rapier was taken away, so he has a new inventory, beware
Spooky is also sad that his damage was nerfed, so he has Berserker’s Blood now
Ghost Bane: Nightmare duration significantly reduced
Stumpy: Magic Resistance decreased to 60%
Last edited by Diellan; Mar 13, 2018 @ 12:47pm
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
Є-dota Jan 25, 2018 @ 1:22pm 
OMG wtf have you done with rapier?? I am spending a lot of money for it, die, my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ teammate bring it, and it isnt work anymore in my inventory!
SleeperCat Jan 26, 2018 @ 3:19am 
Overall, the update is pretty good, bringing new content. List of things I liked:

- Rarely collected items or completely forgotten began to return in connection with the addition of Mysterious Orb, especially such items:

* Phase Boots (for non-mobile heroes or requiring speed of movement and damage);
* Diffusal Blade (for illusionists and their illusions pretty good);
* Drum of Endurance + Spirit Vessel + Solar Crest (for supports, which most of their time busy improving the towers and barracks);
* Armlet of Mordiggian, Black King Bar, Echo Saber etc (not bad / good).
- Fixed and replaced talents;
- This custom game is still played well.

And now just about the impressions and personal opinion:

- Rapier Ogre for me is the same as before - has not changed in terms of damage (him improves the aura, depending on the difficulty level). It's normal. But I noticed one difference - players began to go less often behind it, because it has ceased to make sense (except gold bags, of course). Nobody finds for Mysterious Orbs an application in (maybe for now);
- If @Chaosnebula is right about the fact that when you transfer a Rapier from an ally (when player with Rapier dead, and his ally picks up and passes back - it's not work), this need fixed (I did not check it myself);
- About auras on difficulty: (need the opinion of the rest) on Medium, really, did not notice auras and this difficulty added only a marginally strong aura of gain to all creeps. You can return these auras, but auras chance give 7.5%-10% for more even aura distribution (They will appear rarely in creeps). Difficulties higher = 12-15% (now, at the moment);
-I hope the Scourge Ward for Venomancer will return to him (now not enough to protect the line) :BibleThump:
-Spooky (or Skeleton Boss): it is very difficult to say on this score. (need the opinion of the rest) He became stronger in terms of durability, yes, but it is still possible to kill, although a little longer.

I have a little thought about the items, which also can be attributed to the improvement from Mysterious Orb:
- Glimmer Cape (bonus: +60 Attack Speed; +25% Magic Resistance; After a 0.6 second delay, grants invisibility and 50% magic resistance to you or a target allied unit for 6 seconds. Cooldown: 14 sec.
- Rod of Atos (bonus: +25 Strenght; +10 Agility; +35 Intelligence; Roots the target for 2.5 seconds. Cast range: 1150; AOE range: 155 or 200);
- Meteor Hammer (bonus: +24 Strenght; +24 Intelligence; +5.5 Health Regeneration; +2 Mana Regeneration; After a successful channel, summons a meteor that strikes a 300 AoE, stunning enemies for 2 seconds and dealing impact damage. Continues to deal damage over time to enemy units and buildings for 6 seconds. Channel Time: 1 sec or 0.75 sec. (the rest is left standard, as there is no sense to increase the damage to buildings = imbalance Standard cooldown - 40 sec.)
- Kaya (bonus: +24 Intelligence; +15% Spell Damage; +12% Mana loss reduction; +1 Mana Regeneration; +1 Health Regeneration)

- Maybe return to assembly of things "Orb of Venom" for "Eye of Skadi"? At the moment he has nothing to do and for Scythe of Vyse give AOE range 200 / 225. This Hex, as for me, does not hold on to the Bosses anyway, but on the waves creeps will be good :p
Last edited by SleeperCat; Jan 27, 2018 @ 2:54pm
SleeperCat Jan 26, 2018 @ 4:41am 
For @Sir Pannbiff the Kind I would like to wish focus on other things in him life and and further aspiration <3 Thanks for for the work done and I will believe that you will come back to us (or at least - sometimes go to this forum) :BibleThump:
Diellan  [developer] Jan 26, 2018 @ 4:59am 
Orb of Venom is a dead end item in the regular game mode, too, so I'm not sure what to do with it. I have to think about it.
Karien Jan 26, 2018 @ 11:15am 
Originally posted by Diellan:
Orb of Venom is a dead end item in the regular game mode, too, so I'm not sure what to do with it. I have to think about it.
Can I suggest scaling the DoT? Or making it a DoT that stacks the more times it's upgraded, to a limit of maybe 5 or more? Maybe add a little stats to it as well as you level it up, but not too much since we kinda want something for midgame/around the treent level. Would also help teams with no DoT to handle that annoying 100 hits (?) to break treent protector shield. Could technically be upgraded with the mysterious orb+a skadi into something that actually carries into late game. Magic DPS with rightclick potential can use it with core to regen and such as well.
SiEgE Jan 30, 2018 @ 11:29am 
Originally posted by Diellan:
Orb of Venom is a dead end item in the regular game mode, too, so I'm not sure what to do with it. I have to think about it.
Yasha+Orb of venom+Demon Edge+Recipe
Soul Melter
Applies a demonic poison, decaying foe's very soul.
A) Deals 8%/10%/12% of user's health as magical damage per second.
B) Deals 4%/7%/10% of target's health as magical damage per second(limited to 450 dps).

Also reduces target's ability to regenerate mana, or get mana from other sources by 50%.
Duration of 3 seconds.
Unstackable effect. Doesn't work on illusions.

Recipe will cost something around 775 gold.

or

Yasha+Orb of venom+Quarterstaff+Recipe
Paralyzing Fang
Each hit splashes a paralyzing venom around the target in aoe of 375. With each tick, venom has a chance of 22% to stun the foe for 2 seconds(That means some targets may be locked in place for up to 4 seconds).
Deals 55 damage per tick and slows attack speed for 15 and movespeed for 40%.
Effect's duration is 3 seconds.
Unstackable effect. Doesn't work on illusions.

Recipe will be around 875 gold
Last edited by SiEgE; Jan 30, 2018 @ 11:34am
SiEgE Jan 30, 2018 @ 12:24pm 
About the update:
Liked it, though some decisions are yet feel strange.
For example, turning rapier into a non-stackable, Armlet kind of item.
Even 420 damage item was still not enough, to make a difference during the late waves. Also the cons are very harsh. 3% health drain when stunlocked is a sure way die. Being stunlocked is pretty hard to deal with, but with this much life drain its a no escape situation.
How about transform it into a feature, and add a damage bank, that grows as user lets the rapier drain his health. If user is very confident of the situation, say, when lifestealing off a big pack of creeps with a cleave, he may keep the rapier draining, so the drained health is transformed into a damage right away.
Bank is unleashed on hit, dealing total health(5% per sec) drained * 1.5 of bonus damage.
9000 damage for 20 second charge for 6k hp pool hero.
That adds a nice wow factor for crit wielding heroes, and also allows defend better if the situation is under control. Also, gives a chance for a fast tower takedowns during the late game.
Dark Eagle Feb 1, 2018 @ 6:55pm 
orbs don't work!!!!!!!! it stay in inventory as separate item.. this fully sucks
SiEgE Feb 2, 2018 @ 9:37am 
Originally posted by Dark Eagle:
orbs don't work!!!!!!!! it stay in inventory as separate item.. this fully sucks
Dropping the item, recipe and the orb to the ground, then picking it up again may help.
Last edited by SiEgE; Feb 2, 2018 @ 9:39am
Sir Pannbiff Feb 2, 2018 @ 10:03am 
For some reason related to item ownership, orbs don't work if you pick them up into the backpack. Make sure to move the orb you want to use in a recipe into your main inventory. If it still doesn't work, then try dropping the orb and picking it up again.

Btw, does the game keep freezing for anyone else after yesterday's 7.08 client update?
kvaker Feb 2, 2018 @ 1:44pm 
Yes, somehow all Horde items dissapper both in shop and in inventory, you can't use them nor can you buy them..
76561198394531158 Mar 19, 2018 @ 9:39pm 
Guys, I beleive that there should be added "extra hard" mode. Please consider this.
Sir Pannbiff Mar 20, 2018 @ 12:10am 
Originally posted by Ракета:
Guys, I beleive that there should be added "extra hard" mode. Please consider this.
Can you say a little bit more about why you think Hard and Ultra are not difficult enough for you? You can always try some of the weaker heroes for an additional challenge.
SiEgE Mar 25, 2018 @ 10:05am 
Just scraped the top of the newest playstyles using new items.
Cursed rapier is a pretty interesting thing to consider for Necrophos.
Since he is the hero who wants to stay alive as much as possible, to deal the most damage, he can engage all 3 lanes at once by just using Rapier. I've used it during the Ultra wave.
Thats what I did:
- Enable the Cursed Rapier.
- Run around, pulling every single mob's aggro to yourself.
- If health is low - disable the Cursed Rapier, and cast Ghost Shroud.
- Roam around the horde to restore health with Radiance+Octarine combo.
- Repeat again.

That makes creeps busy, while teammates are shooting them down. Thats not too reliable, since at any moment, there may be golems to bash you, or Satyrs to prevent you from using Ghost Shroud right away, but we've managed to pull it off 'till 50:00, with a 3 man team.
SiEgE Mar 25, 2018 @ 10:24am 
Originally posted by Sir Pannbiff the Kind:
Originally posted by Ракета:
Guys, I beleive that there should be added "extra hard" mode. Please consider this.
Can you say a little bit more about why you think Hard and Ultra are not difficult enough for you? You can always try some of the weaker heroes for an additional challenge.
There were plenty of games, where my teammates were so push oriented/pro, they've managed to destroy the enemy ancient before 20:00 minute mark. And way more with the enemy ancient getting destroyed before 24:00.

Horde Mode isn't that hard to win if you just focus on pushing the hell out of lanes. Its even easier if you utilize the Ogre gold, Secret gold and buffs that you get after destroying the enemy buildings.
The most obvious example be, say, Nature's Prophet and Sven being offlane heroes just roaming the map, crushing towers, while Luna, Medusa and Wraith King soloing their lanes.
Difficulty problem right now is mostly about any hero with HoT and a decent amount of armor(say, Sven's buff) being able to push Mega towers solo, or when one hero is building itself as a mega tank, while other heroes damage the tower.

I'd suggest reducing the gold amount by removing the Ogre gold when its non Easy difficulty, and reducing the Secret gold by 2/3rds for Hard and Ultra difficulties. That alone will have a healthy impact on difficulty.
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