(RU) Слегка усилить армию

(ENG) Strengthen the army

The whole faction is severely handicapped by having no access to food, leaving you with a city of 1 population for quite a while, or dedicating all of your production to building a building to give you a population, leading you to having nothing else. On top of that, the units are not even strong enough to make up for the handicap.

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

The whole faction is severely handicapped by having no access to food, leaving you with a city of 1 population for quite a while, or dedicating all of your production to building a building to give you a population, leading you to having nothing else. On top of that, the units are not even strong enough to make up for the handicap. So you're just playing a worse version of every other faction.

I don't think so. At start sure, even with bonus production it can be hard, but once you have built up like even 3-4 population you start snowballling like hell. The good part is - settlers don't need population to be built, which makes expansion much more faster

Originally posted by Gleb Cornery:

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

The whole faction is severely handicapped by having no access to food, leaving you with a city of 1 population for quite a while, or dedicating all of your production to building a building to give you a population, leading you to having nothing else. On top of that, the units are not even strong enough to make up for the handicap. So you're just playing a worse version of every other faction.

I don't think so. At start sure, even with bonus production it can be hard, but once you have built up like even 3-4 population you start snowballling like hell. The good part is - settlers don't need population to be built, which makes expansion much more faster

I feel what isn't being taken into account is, while you're building Artificial Conscience (which costs exponentially more production each time) you aren't doing anything else. So while in every other faction I can build something that takes 5 turns and, by the end of that 5 turns, I can have the new building AND +1 population, here I'm at a point where it would take 15 turns on a high production city to get +1 population (Artificial Conscience lvl 6) and that's it... and I have to get it to lvl 8 for my level 3 faction quest. This becomes exponentially more difficult when the units can barely take out a minor faction without being wiped out.
Either the faction's production needs a big boost, their units, or something. After 4 games with them, my turn 100 feels like every other faction's turn 50.
I won't say they're trash. Just feels very behind everyone else and I'm struggling to see their strong point when the disadvantage is very apparent.
Edit: The "no need for food" is pretty good, just needs a bit more to make up for the severe disadvantage of not using food: not growing population passively. Population = more resources to put into production, gold, science, etc.
Maybe each AC building = +2 population? I don't know how that would go in play testing though. That and changing/adding some of the buffs that you get on Happy or Fervent. Like Central Market gives you +10% food and gold on Fervent. Food being useless for them, maybe make it give them +10% production and gold. Random ideas.

Edit2: On another note, the models for the units look cool AF

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

I feel what isn't being taken into account is, while you're building Artificial Conscience (which costs exponentially more production each time) you aren't doing anything else. So while in every other faction I can build something that takes 5 turns and, by the end of that 5 turns, I can have the new building AND +1 population, here I'm at a point where it would take 15 turns on a high production city to get +1 population (Artificial Conscience lvl 6) and that's it... and I have to get it to lvl 8 for my level 3 faction quest. This becomes exponentially more difficult when the units can barely take out a minor faction without being wiped out.
Either the faction's production needs a big boost, their units, or something. After 4 games with them, my turn 100 feels like every other faction's turn 50.
I won't say they're trash. Just feels very behind everyone else and I'm struggling to see their strong point when the disadvantage is very apparent.
Edit: The "no need for food" is pretty good, just needs a bit more to make up for the severe disadvantage of not using food: not growing population passively. Population = more resources to put into production, gold, science, etc.
Maybe each AC building = +2 population? I don't know how that would go in play testing though. That and changing/adding some of the buffs that you get on Happy or Fervent. Like Central Market gives you +10% food and gold on Fervent. Food being useless for them, maybe make it give them +10% production and gold. Random ideas.

Edit2: On another note, the models for the units look cool AF

I uderstand your point. I may have accidentally made them too weak after making them absolute industry powerhouse on first try (+1 production on tiles with production was diabolical). Still, after a couple of games i think the Naprovat are not weaker than other factions, at least not units (which most likely will be strengthened). Will give it another test(s).

I really like your idea about approval buffs. Food to Production change is really good and i think I'll do it. Just will have to balance it up a bit.


P.S. Unit models are moatly basegame Mezari units, but i had to fully retexture heroes, which has taken a bit of time

Edit: and btw the first quest always gives you 10 of Titan Bones which after activating is a really strong boost early-game

Originally posted by Gleb Cornery:

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

I feel what isn't being taken into account is, while you're building Artificial Conscience (which costs exponentially more production each time) you aren't doing anything else. So while in every other faction I can build something that takes 5 turns and, by the end of that 5 turns, I can have the new building AND +1 population, here I'm at a point where it would take 15 turns on a high production city to get +1 population (Artificial Conscience lvl 6) and that's it... and I have to get it to lvl 8 for my level 3 faction quest. This becomes exponentially more difficult when the units can barely take out a minor faction without being wiped out.
Either the faction's production needs a big boost, their units, or something. After 4 games with them, my turn 100 feels like every other faction's turn 50.
I won't say they're trash. Just feels very behind everyone else and I'm struggling to see their strong point when the disadvantage is very apparent.
Edit: The "no need for food" is pretty good, just needs a bit more to make up for the severe disadvantage of not using food: not growing population passively. Population = more resources to put into production, gold, science, etc.
Maybe each AC building = +2 population? I don't know how that would go in play testing though. That and changing/adding some of the buffs that you get on Happy or Fervent. Like Central Market gives you +10% food and gold on Fervent. Food being useless for them, maybe make it give them +10% production and gold. Random ideas.

Edit2: On another note, the models for the units look cool AF

I uderstand your point. I may have accidentally made them too weak after making them absolute industry powerhouse on first try (+1 production on tiles with production was diabolical). Still, after a couple of games i think the Naprovat are not weaker than other factions, at least not units (which most likely will be strengthened). Will give it another test(s).

I really like your idea about approval buffs. Food to Production change is really good and i think I'll do it. Just will have to balance it up a bit.


P.S. Unit models are moatly basegame Mezari units, but i had to fully retexture heroes, which has taken a bit of time

Edit: and btw the first quest always gives you 10 of Titan Bones which after activating is a really strong boost early-game

Really it's the early game that may need some tuning. Seems very reliant on having 0 interaction in the first 100 turns. Later on their production is good though.

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

Really it's the early game that may need some tuning. Seems very reliant on having 0 interaction in the first 100 turns. Later on their production is good though.

Hey, i have just updated the mod in which I have added new heroes, made army slightly stronger and made the approval building boost industry instead of food (central market now gives +5% industry on fervent, and Imperial News Network now gives +3 Industry on worker on Happy)

I think they should have something different than Watermill. Still need big boost for production. Maybe some kind of Factory?

Originally posted by Gleb Cornery:

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

Really it's the early game that may need some tuning. Seems very reliant on having 0 interaction in the first 100 turns. Later on their production is good though.

Hey, i have just updated the mod in which I have added new heroes, made army slightly stronger and made the approval building boost industry instead of food (central market now gives +5% industry on fervent, and Imperial News Network now gives +3 Industry on worker on Happy)

Im about to start a new game and let you know!

Originally posted by Gleb Cornery:

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

Really it's the early game that may need some tuning. Seems very reliant on having 0 interaction in the first 100 turns. Later on their production is good though.

Hey, i have just updated the mod in which I have added new heroes, made army slightly stronger and made the approval building boost industry instead of food (central market now gives +5% industry on fervent, and Imperial News Network now gives +3 Industry on worker on Happy)

Im looking at the Central Market. It still says it gives food, not production.

I think Artificial Conscience need some tweeks. Making dust prices go to couple millions to prevent from buying out its not quite good. It doesnt look good (I thought it was a bug at first). Its hard to expand quickly. I think you dont have to go to lengths of making it costs so much. Maybe just twice normal price to making seem not profitable (but not impossible) but still the goal is to generate population via production

Also would be good to sit and think what we realy want from this faction and how their gameplay should look like. We are going for Wonder Victory or Science? What is the goal? Create infrastructure with smaller city improvements in multiple expansions and later build super computer (Science generating building requiring lots of Industry)? Seems like Naprovat is faction focused on two things Science and Industry. But if Supercomputer requires so much industry and its very late in game why should i pick it over Temple?

Requirements doesnt need to be specify on city improvements. Maybe to progress in faction quest you would have to build something in specific city

I dont think last upgrade is good. Personally when I am this late in game I dont focus on previous science research. Playing against AI let you buy out upgrades with Influence.

And I would avoid improvement that change stuff in game but description cant specify it

I wish you luck.

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

Originally posted by Gleb Cornery:

Hey, i have just updated the mod in which I have added new heroes, made army slightly stronger and made the approval building boost industry instead of food (central market now gives +5% industry on fervent, and Imperial News Network now gives +3 Industry on worker on Happy)

Im looking at the Central Market. It still says it gives food, not production.

In techs it does. But when you go to city it will say +5% production, and it will give it

Originally posted by Gleb Cornery:

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

Im looking at the Central Market. It still says it gives food, not production.

In techs it does. But when you go to city it will say +5% production, and it will give it

I see that now. Thank you.

Originally posted by AeroTheFallenAngel:

I see that now. Thank you.

Originally posted by $zyn@:

I think Artificial Conscience need some tweeks. Making dust prices go to couple millions to prevent from buying out its not quite good. It doesnt look good (I thought it was a bug at first). Its hard to expand quickly. I think you dont have to go to lengths of making it costs so much. Maybe just twice normal price to making seem not profitable (but not impossible) but still the goal is to generate population via production

Also would be good to sit and think what we realy want from this faction and how their gameplay should look like. We are going for Wonder Victory or Science? What is the goal? Create infrastructure with smaller city improvements in multiple expansions and later build super computer (Science generating building requiring lots of Industry)? Seems like Naprovat is faction focused on two things Science and Industry. But if Supercomputer requires so much industry and its very late in game why should i pick it over Temple?

Requirements doesnt need to be specify on city improvements. Maybe to progress in faction quest you would have to build something in specific city

I dont think last upgrade is good. Personally when I am this late in game I dont focus on previous science research. Playing against AI let you buy out upgrades with Influence.

And I would avoid improvement that change stuff in game but description cant specify it

I wish you luck.

So, I have tested the mod and not only the mod a bit of times, and must say that i have probably accidentally made Naprovat too weak, after making them too strong at first. Not that it's critically weak, but still. I already have started working on new update to balance it out. Wait for it soon ;)