The Soviets are coming next update so there is some hope for socialism

scratch that, they dont have a focus tree

"but for some reason, instead of a proletarian revolution there happens 10 liberal ones"

facts my brother! spit your ♥♥♥♥ indeed!

all i want for christmas is to lead a leninist revolution against the entrenched party-bureaucratic bourgeoisie in kapitalgrad

me when surplus value is still generated and the state takes form of the abstract capitalist*

Originally posted by sofa king:

"but for some reason, instead of a proletarian revolution there happens 10 liberal ones"

facts my brother! spit your ♥♥♥♥ indeed!

all i want for christmas is to lead a leninist revolution against the entrenched party-bureaucratic bourgeoisie in kapitalgrad

the party are literally petite bourgious (manag*rs) read orwell on james burnham's "managerial revolution"

Originally posted by jim adventure:

scratch that, they dont have a focus tree

The USSR rebellion has decisions to reunite Russia and invade other factions and regions.

Keep in mind, there could have been smart people in the proles that the party missed. Plus, in the UK's case at least, Winston is able to lead the revolution due to great will power. Furthermore, in the book it is insinuated that either Oceania or the party's rule collapsed. I think in future updates we may see the democracies built up more to allow proletariat parties to become popular.

have you even read the book? nowhere is it hinted at that the party rule collapsed. why would it collapse if it is shown by the book to work perfectly as intended (endless alienation of educated proletaians from one another and proletarians at large, causing all potential organizers (winston) to ever fail)?

Originally posted by amode66:

have you even read the book? nowhere is it hinted at that the party rule collapsed. why would it collapse if it is shown by the book to work perfectly as intended (endless alienation of educated proletaians from one another and proletarians at large, causing all potential organizers (winston) to ever fail)?

Yes, I have read it in the end. There is pages after Winston's story that talks about Ingsoc in a past-tense. Insinuating that Ingsoc and/or oceania Collapsed afterwards.

fair i have not read the book in english, only localized. is this the only thing that points towards ingsoc collapse though?

It is only insinuated, it never says (if I am remember correctly) 'Ingsoc/Oceania collapsed in 1986' or whatever. But the words it uses is in a past sense, as if they recollecting the time Ingsoc/Oceania existed (like a historian would). But yes, as far as I am aware, this is the only thing that points towards ingsoc's/Oceania's collapse.

This might be more of a 'edition' thing rather than a language thing. Because some books that have newer editions has more stuff in said editions (like writer's notes or history of the book itself).

Orwell was a fabian socialist instead of a marx based one, so I think a revolution of the socialist kind would be more along the progressive axis of things in this case rather than some soviet look-alikes, which is what the parties are based off of.

Originally posted by paintr2:

Orwell was a fabian socialist instead of a marx based one, so I think a revolution of the socialist kind would be more along the progressive axis of things in this case rather than some soviet look-alikes, which is what the parties are based off of.

didnt read orwell or marx award

Originally posted by amode66:

Originally posted by paintr2:

Orwell was a fabian socialist instead of a marx based one, so I think a revolution of the socialist kind would be more along the progressive axis of things in this case rather than some soviet look-alikes, which is what the parties are based off of.

didnt read orwell or marx award

1. Again, orwell was a fabian socialist, which is clearly different from anything downstream from Lenin.
2. If orwell was for eastern style socialism, he must have written works that do the direct opposite of making people fond of it since the CIA literally airdropped books like animal farm and 1984 over into communist germany during the cold war as a part of psychological operations.
3. And I quote, he says: " "the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the socialist movement" so clearly he's not with those guys.

So whatever magic revolution orwell refers to in the books appendix would most likely not reflect something Bolshevik if this were to be more accurate to the book and the authors ideals. I am not trying to turn this into an argument about communism here necessarily, though I do not like it, it is just an objective fact that this kind of thing is more fitting than the stalin crawling out of his grave in eurasia somewhere.

Originally posted by paintr2:

Originally posted by amode66:

didnt read orwell or marx award

1. Again, orwell was a fabian socialist, which is clearly different from anything downstream from Lenin.
2. If orwell was for eastern style socialism, he must have written works that do the direct opposite of making people fond of it since the CIA literally airdropped books like animal farm and 1984 over into communist germany during the cold war as a part of psychological operations.
3. And I quote, he says: " "the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the socialist movement" so clearly he's not with those guys.

So whatever magic revolution orwell refers to in the books appendix would most likely not reflect something Bolshevik if this were to be more accurate to the book and the authors ideals. I am not trying to turn this into an argument about communism here necessarily, though I do not like it, it is just an objective fact that this kind of thing is more fitting than the stalin crawling out of his grave in eurasia somewhere.

wow orwell didnt support the falsifier stalin who literally said that there is commodity production under socialism

he must have been not a marxist!!!

read apidestra flying