Ursprünglich geschrieben von Warlords Welt:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yascherrica:

So what you say is that if I play solo there's no way I can beat a Tovera without cheating, right? And if so, then the game practically has an OP boss solo player can do nothing with but loose making it pretty disapointing.

Edit: a lot of creators have a goal to build a ship capable of taking out Tovera, so for them there's not much to do in RE2 but enjoy middle class opponents. That may be a bit delicate marketing wise given the time invested in the project and overal positive attitude to RE1

right

Sorry, but then I'm out of RE 2, which is a game with a lot of freedom, why is something like that being cut? I'm sorry but these changes are garbage for me personally and ruin my enjoyment of the game.

Tovera are boss encounters meant to be very difficult in RE2.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von ravien_ff:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Warlords Welt:

right

Sorry, but then I'm out of RE 2, which is a game with a lot of freedom, why is something like that being cut? I'm sorry but these changes are garbage for me personally and ruin my enjoyment of the game.

Tovera are boss encounters meant to be very difficult in RE2.

Yeah, but there still should be a way to beat it solo. Sofar I see only one option: bring a few combat cv's and use em one by one (approach - die - repete) hoping that tovera won't respawn or magically rep the damage. I don't know if that is actually possible though.

They are beatable solo, but nowhere near as quickly or as easily as in RE1.
I know for a fact that ArtemisRouge has been able to beat one solo in about 15 minutes.

If you're going to take on a Tovera, you're going to need an endgame ship and multiple runs at it (repair yourself between runs). You can't just buzz around it and nosepin it like you can in RE1 because it has 5 cores and damages your ship if you try to block its movement.
OPVs can never repair themselves. Even POI regeneration doesn't affect patrol vessels. So any damage you do is permanent, while you are able to repair your ship.

The easiest way to beat the Tovera is with multiple players in MP. But why are you trying to kill it at all? Quantums? There are far easier sources than picking a fight with a T5 Battleship.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vermillion:

They are beatable solo, but nowhere near as quickly or as easily as in RE1.
I know for a fact that ArtemisRouge has been able to beat one solo in about 15 minutes.

If you're going to take on a Tovera, you're going to need an endgame ship and multiple runs at it (repair yourself between runs). You can't just buzz around it and nosepin it like you can in RE1 because it has 5 cores and damages your ship if you try to block its movement.
OPVs can never repair themselves. Even POI regeneration doesn't affect patrol vessels. So any damage you do is permanent, while you are able to repair your ship.

The easiest way to beat the Tovera is with multiple players in MP. But why are you trying to kill it at all? Quantums? There are far easier sources than picking a fight with a T5 Battleship.

Thanks for the clarification.

Why engage it at all you adk? Well, it's a challange for a creator to try harder and improove the build.

I personally enjoy the cpu changes. Its difficult to play with limited cpu and thats how it should be. I'm excited to take on a Tovera and Legacy when they get updated to RE2! As for Broods, well they eat blocks even with shields! Its a fun challenge lol

So Artemis Rouge ... one of the best if not the best combat ship builder on planet Earth and definitely a skilled pilot is the benchmark? Yikes!

I'm going to be honest, respectfully I'm not feeling y'alls vision of RE 2.0 thus far. I really doubt other players will feel it too.

People play RE for fun from my experience. They don't want it to be a chore or overly, unnecessarily difficult. Hopefully more balance / changes will come over the many months. It would be a shame to put in all this work only to have players say "Nah I'll stick with RE 1"

I will say I love the graphical improvements and UI improvements I've seen so far.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xarq:

So Artemis Rouge ... one of the best if not the best combat ship builder on planet Earth and definitely a skilled pilot is the benchmark? Yikes!

I'm going to be honest, respectfully I'm not feeling y'alls vision of RE 2.0 thus far. I really doubt other players will feel it too.

People play RE for fun from my experience. They don't want it to be a chore or overly, unnecessarily difficult. Hopefully more balance / changes will come over the many months. It would be a shame to put in all this work only to have players say "Nah I'll stick with RE 1"

I will say I love the graphical improvements and UI improvements I've seen so far.

Just to let you know, the Tovera isn't even in the scenario at the moment. It needs a dedicated sector because it's so powerful. It's not something the average player will probably want to, or can, solo. And that's okay because they will only be found in Zirax territory anyway most likely, so that leaves the other 90% of the galaxy free from them.

All the issues with CPU are easily fixed. Turn it off. Problem solved. Get creative with all the cool reforged stuff, spawn in your dream ship, play all the Eden content.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Semp:

All the issues with CPU are easily fixed. Turn it off. Problem solved. Get creative with all the cool reforged stuff, spawn in your dream ship, play all the Eden content.

Not interesting. Like switching M/V and block limit OFF. To me CPU system is essential like mass and volume. I like the creativity part of EGS not an FPS mission running.

I really like the path RE's going it's just some tweaks that are still to be done. Ballance.

If Toverra is going to be tied to a certain sector it's going to be a little step back for galaxy immersion (it was cool to suddenly find Tovera "on a mission" in some distant sector).

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yascherrica:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Semp:

All the issues with CPU are easily fixed. Turn it off. Problem solved. Get creative with all the cool reforged stuff, spawn in your dream ship, play all the Eden content.

Not interesting. Like switching M/V and block limit OFF. To me CPU system is essential like mass and volume. I like the creativity part of EGS not an FPS mission running.

I really like the path RE's going it's just some tweaks that are still to be done. Ballance.

If Toverra is going to be tied to a certain sector it's going to be a little step back for galaxy immersion (it was cool to suddenly find Tovera "on a mission" in some distant sector).

The Tovera is such a powerful ship now that it really does deserve its own sector. It's possible it might still have a very low chance to spawn in normal orbits outside Zirax territory, but I haven't gotten far enough to set anything like that up yet.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yascherrica:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Semp:

All the issues with CPU are easily fixed. Turn it off. Problem solved. Get creative with all the cool reforged stuff, spawn in your dream ship, play all the Eden content.

Not interesting. Like switching M/V and block limit OFF. To me CPU system is essential like mass and volume. I like the creativity part of EGS not an FPS mission running.

You know you can impose yourself some limits right ? When I was discovering the game (and RE) with friends, we played with mass/volume and CPU off. At some point we figured out the game wasn't fun with unlimited CPU, but we weren't good enough to play with regular values. Guess what ? We decided we wouldn't go over 150%. All of a sudden the game was playable for us, yet still challenging. Now 700 hours later and with a lot more experience, I managed to fully build my fleet with both settings on.

I expect RE2 to be similar. We're gonna learn to optimize, figure out what gun combinations work best, how much mobility we can sacrifice for that little bit of oompf. And if it's still not doable within the limits, then I encourage you to turn CPU off and figure out how much you need to do it. If that's the hardest task then let's make a leaderboard of the lowest CPU ships that have taken down a Tovera in a single run. I'm sure I could do it with 1.8mil, maybe 1.7.


You wouldn't for example expect MMO players to be able to clear a difficult 10 person raid by themselves. Well I think this class of ship is supposed to be that. A world boss of some kind. Something you shouldn't be able to beat by yourself, at least not in a single run.


tl.dr: You can set your own CPU limits and Tovera is not designed to be beaten solo, so there's no need to balance around it.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von 21h08:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Yascherrica:

Not interesting. Like switching M/V and block limit OFF. To me CPU system is essential like mass and volume. I like the creativity part of EGS not an FPS mission running.

You know you can impose yourself some limits right ? When I was discovering the game (and RE) with friends, we played with mass/volume and CPU off. At some point we figured out the game wasn't fun with unlimited CPU, but we weren't good enough to play with regular values. Guess what ? We decided we wouldn't go over 150%. All of a sudden the game was playable for us, yet still challenging. Now 700 hours later and with a lot more experience, I managed to fully build my fleet with both settings on.

I expect RE2 to be similar. We're gonna learn to optimize, figure out what gun combinations work best, how much mobility we can sacrifice for that little bit of oompf. And if it's still not doable within the limits, then I encourage you to turn CPU off and figure out how much you need to do it. If that's the hardest task then let's make a leaderboard of the lowest CPU ships that have taken down a Tovera in a single run. I'm sure I could do it with 1.8mil, maybe 1.7.


You wouldn't for example expect MMO players to be able to clear a difficult 10 person raid by themselves. Well I think this class of ship is supposed to be that. A world boss of some kind. Something you shouldn't be able to beat by yourself, at least not in a single run.


tl.dr: You can set your own CPU limits and Tovera is not designed to be beaten solo, so there's no need to balance around it.

Yeah, there are workarounds like the one you proposed and I'm not struggling to have higher CPU outputs (though numbers were increased recently, thanks ravien_ff )

It was more a question for a discussion as I like to build massive ships and I really liked the compromise I had to mind building them in RE1 (class 20+). I really liked the idea of being able to build those ships and the amount of rare components I needed to farm for them. It was like a little goal in survival to get the rearrest components for the builds I made in creative. Also some of my builds were supposed to come to the workshop so I had to make sure that those ships are flyable without and "BUT"s.

Anyway, with recent CPU increase I personally have a bit more room for my creations though it's still a challange for me. Even after 3300+ hours in EGS all this new content needs a lot of testing first in creative and then in survival. Like sofar I found that my lvl5 starter HV is actually affordable only like by lvl 7 becouse I need way more unlock points for the stuff it uses.

PLEASE read the whole wall before responding there are several points, not just a whine :)

I get that we are not MEANT to mount all the weapons AND all the Shields AND ALL the Engines.....but I think what people are saying is that it is looking like you ONLY get to pick 1.5 of these 3 things which are currently ALL used to engage Tovera's in RE1 for example...most of use are wanting like 2-2.5 of the 3, more like RE1 with Aux's.

Unless you can play GODLY like ArtemisRouge, those of us with middling skill / high ping / old people reflexes wont stand a chance, especially with the bigger ships having multiple Cores now therefore taking even long to kill. RE1 we could overcome lower skill etc with time and effort to get enough CPU to be able to kill anything and feel you've 'won' with the current hard-caps it is only skill that can be improved, which makes for a frustrating 'Souls-like' game play-loop of dying over and over trying to improve.

I mean we've all by now seen AR taking out Tovera's in C9 ships but that is beyond most players skills. It kind of feels like since he can, the developers therefor feel we all can and RE2 is being balanced around that thought? PS if you balance game difficulty around the top 5% you loose the other 95%....if the goal is for this to be a more hard-core RE challenge, just say so.

I do understand that in RE1 you can make your CV's just plain OP powerful so nothing is a challenge, I don't think most players are expecting that or looking for that, just to feel they can have a fighting chance, without needing 4-6 friends online to help with the fight. If that is the goal of the developers, to force more teamwork, fine at least just say so.

Another thing that could be confusing is in RE1 we currently NEED to kill Tovera's or Legacy to get the end-game parts (Quantum's) maybe that is not necessary anymore and Tovera's are meant to chase us off from hunting the lower ships that can now give us upgrades? Again tell us if this is the case.

Either way I can see several Servers turning OFF or extending the imposed limits to be more inline with what players are currently expecting / used too. Since you have made the End-Game boss ships much harder to kill (more cores, heavier weapons and anti-nose pinning devices) and are nerfing the players potential at the same time.

You can get Quantum Processors used in endgame devices from many places outside Toveras and Legacy Ships; though only in smaller amounts.
Abandoned POIs (not on the starter planet) as well as most T3 Zirax POIs contain a box with 2-3 processors, which is enough to get you Superior CPU Extenders and most endgame devices by just running one of each type of Abandoned POI.
You can either grind those POIs for quantums; or go to Legacy Space and hit the source for 12+ processors at a time. Infector ships are the best source of late-game quantum processors without excessive difficulty.
If you've got friends or are more prepared, the Decimator, Devastator and Eradicator each give significantly more processors.

The Tovera is not, nor has it ever been the intended source of Quantums (though they do have some). They will appear in their own dedicated combat site in the future.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Vermillion:

You can get Quantum Processors used in endgame devices from many places outside Toveras and Legacy Ships; though only in smaller amounts.
Abandoned POIs (not on the starter planet) as well as most T3 Zirax POIs contain a box with 2-3 processors, which is enough to get you Superior CPU Extenders and most endgame devices by just running one of each type of Abandoned POI.
You can either grind those POIs for quantums; or go to Legacy Space and hit the source for 12+ processors at a time. Infector ships are the best source of late-game quantum processors without excessive difficulty.
If you've got friends or are more prepared, the Decimator, Devastator and Eradicator each give significantly more processors.

The Tovera is not, nor has it ever been the intended source of Quantums (though they do have some). They will appear in their own dedicated combat site in the future.

Awsome insight, thank's.