Dota 2
Epic Boss Fight (Discontinued)
Tomrock Dec 29, 2016 @ 12:06am
Rant /Observation
Just played bounty hunter the -5s jinada was good so i picked it and went wicked fury and whole game played on pure/physical damage.

well idk if anyone noticed " PHYSICAL & PURE DAMAGE IS ♥♥♥♥ING NERFED"
Magic damge is the only way to win this game now .

I remember when ebf started no one would go magic build, now no one goes physical LOL pa and totally physicall attackers are simply unviable.

Basically a sctye of decay gives way more damage thana wicked fury are you kidding me bro ?
or a veil witha good magic spell
Last edited by Tomrock; Dec 29, 2016 @ 12:57am
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
76561198051628493 Dec 29, 2016 @ 3:30am 
its not nerf but its broken.
1. losing the cleave dmg has been reported but no answers since. maybe 7.01 is broken the pre cleave radius, idk too lazy to checked other cleave dmg items / skills.
2. refurbish NG+ scripts on diff selects make over buffs on armor,hp,dmg reduction,etc.which is always better using % rather than - operations.
3. its was already shows the viable since SS and AM or birdy patches magic over physical and pure, and this refurbish make it worse. but still doable but its not that effective as its used to be.

the morale story is : this is more broken patches than ever.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; Dec 29, 2016 @ 5:06am
dopamine hunter Dec 29, 2016 @ 4:40am 
this is straight up wrong, physical damage is 6x as stronger at any stage of the game right now and -armor is the same at lower levels and stronger at higher armor, where before doing -1000 armor on a 4000 armor target brought their resistance fro 99.5% to 99.44%; it now brings it from 97.5% to 96.4% which is double the % increase (relative damage changes went from 20% to 50%)

pure damage has not been changed at all and i've fixed cleave a day after 7.00 hit so tell me what exactly isn't working as intended or got nerfed?
Tomrock Dec 29, 2016 @ 4:49am 
Idk the stats but i'm telling about my experience.
76561198051628493 Dec 29, 2016 @ 5:14am 
Even u r telling the cleave is done 1 day after 7.0 im sure its doesnt works any ng+rounds since im reported it. And plz compare it apple to apple. Physical vs magical outputs otherwise its wont make any justified and just to make it clear.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; Dec 29, 2016 @ 5:16am
dopamine hunter Dec 29, 2016 @ 6:55am 
it works on ng+ rounds just like any other round, but the % damage decrease scales it down obviously; if you don't buy a desolator then yes your physical damage will be garbage just like when you don't buy veil
76561198051628493 Dec 30, 2016 @ 4:46pm 
has been tested just now, and yes the cleave its working with white numbers on it its effectived before NG but on NG its seem does nothing which on normal non cheat mode u will only can claim wicked on NG not before, even with Claw+Wicked(-3000 armor vs 83 armor for example) on NG when hitting mobs,the surrounding HP is not drop at all except the main target, how much dmg reduction we talking about here? cause all i see i deal 7 digits on main while other on radius only deal 1-2 digits dmg.top.its true 35% dmg pure splash? cause on old days the others always meld sooner than the main target cause its ignoring armor like splash does.
conclusion :
2 digits top is not 35% from 7 digits total, or the 35% pure is not pure at all.or something is going wrong. and please take alook at parry thingy its too OP.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; Dec 30, 2016 @ 4:57pm
dopamine hunter Dec 30, 2016 @ 4:57pm 
the damage on the main target are fake because they're what dota thinks the damage being dealt is (which i filter); while the cleave damage is 35% of your true damage after reductions; same issue the combat log had, if you want to see the actual damage you're dealing you need to look at the actual hp change
Last edited by dopamine hunter; Dec 30, 2016 @ 4:57pm
76561198051628493 Dec 30, 2016 @ 6:41pm 
lets do math :
Damage multiplier formula = 1 - 0.06 × armor ÷ (1 + (0.06 × |armor|))
* In Dota 2, the cap on this number is 100% damage amplification or reduction.
Effective HP formula = Total HP ÷ Damage multiplier

study case. mirana lv 1 +claw+wicked = 44k dmg with 35% pure + minus 3k armor vs kobolt NG with 5.000.000 HP + 50 armor.

* ) before minus armor
1-(0.06x50)/(1+0.06x50)= 0.25 or 25%.

*) after minus armor
1-(0.06x-2950)/(1+0.06x-2950)= -1.01 or as its said cap on 100%.

*) effective kobolt HP
5.0000.000/(1-(-2.950x0.06)/(1+2.950x0.06)=2.507.042

so before minus armor 44.000x0.25= 11.000 per hit, and after minus armor 44.000x2= 88.000 per hit that is the number of true physical dmg and 35% of em is pure so 30.800, thats only regular not including crit, lets put some crit 88.000x6=528.000 per crit. lets said 10% prog crit with 0.1 attack speed/s so 9x88.000+1x528.000=1.320.000 dmg/s

with kobolt effective Hp 2.507.042/1.320.000=1.9s to bring down a kobolt.

while the radius gain 35% ignoring the armor of course because its pure. so 35% of 88.000=30.800x10(because its not do crit or does it, but lets assume it does not)=308.000/s
5.000.000/308.000=16.3s to kill enemies around the target.

all of these base on normal doto2 engine works. so its doesnt tell any what is happen that makes from 7digits dropped into 2 digits cleave. cause its seem right when we on NG to get 7 digits dmg, we should get this number otherwise we are building a totally wrong items. so what does "fake" or "filter" meant or stand for? its the out put cut more with dmg reduction, so how much % of these? 99.99999% for cleave/pure and what ??% of dmg reduction on main target?
Last edited by F_D_Throne; Dec 30, 2016 @ 6:45pm
dopamine hunter Dec 30, 2016 @ 6:49pm 
its really simple
ng+ only passes 0.1%, (round 1) scaling up to 20% at the last round, of the damage dealt (with magic and pure doing slightly more), if you hit for 32k ignoring armor that means you're only doing 320 damage in ng+, this means with wicked fury you are dealing 120 splash damage; this value is based on your raw attack damage, ignoring any armor values. however because i am changing the damage being dealt the white damage numbers are wrong; they are before any damage manipulation (spells will shows damage being dealt with original dota spell amp, not ebf's spell amp for example)

thats it, simple
Last edited by dopamine hunter; Dec 30, 2016 @ 6:51pm
76561198051628493 Dec 30, 2016 @ 6:59pm 
so to put simplest words NG does 99% of dmg reduction as its mention 32k into 320.thats explain a lot. 99% its a huge % dont you think? well i guess we do need to lower all the items price and make more items upgrade to cover it up otherwise its totally doesnt make sense at all to given 99%.
dopamine hunter Dec 30, 2016 @ 7:38pm 
how does it not make sense? instead of multiplying round 1's hp by 100 i am reducing the damage they take by 100, it is effectively the same thing but is less straining on the engine; the last boss in normal has 30mil hp, the first bosses in ng+ have only roughly 1-5mil depending on difficulty

pure damage and magical damage's % is also less than physical to not overnerf casters (they roughly do 1k damage with their nukes) and the % goes down as the rounds pass, down to 80% damage reduction for the last boss
hem... its sound right and im totally agreed with you on this point where the game do less straining the engine and i can said i love it boss. +1
but its kinda strange if we compare old 1 with this new mech with hp in exchange of dmg reduction where on mob rounds we used to clear radius faster than this new mech as i said before(we kill mob surrounding 1st rather than the main target while on current its seem we have to kill 1 by 1), that is why im wondering whats that make so different.
and by the way HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!! wishing all the best for doto and his costum mod community. looking forward for EBF gain his 1st again on costum mod.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; Jan 1, 2017 @ 2:40am
dopamine hunter Jan 1, 2017 @ 7:35am 
idk shouldnt be different, both main target and cleave targets receive the pure damage; cleave is a cone now rather tha na radius though but only melee fury and b.itachi work that way wicked fury should be unchanged, happy new year to you too
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