The only strength VC has is their spells since all their units suffer debuffs and 50% hp debuff for undead

Agree. At least set their spells on cool down at the beginning of the fight so that we can have time to spread out. Or just limit the casting range. For some reason when the AI characters use the spell they can cast on wherever they like on the map. This does not make sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GM5HNuC94I

Perhaps you should take a look at how this is working apparently?
Because like, the spells are hitting through walls, through solid objects, without direct line of sight. Single casts are killing 20-30 guys and the AI spams the casts within a 10 second period at the start of the fight before units can even spread out.

Player Characters and Top Tier Troops instantly dead no recourse, no counter play, no armor defense, nothing can be done, you just drop dead by a unit who can't see you on the other side of the map.

Originally posted by FiauraTheTankGirl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GM5HNuC94I

Perhaps you should take a look at how this is working apparently?
Because like, the spells are hitting through walls, through solid objects, without direct line of sight. Single casts are killing 20-30 guys and the AI spams the casts within a 10 second period at the start of the fight before units can even spread out.

Player Characters and Top Tier Troops instantly dead no recourse, no counter play, no armor defense, nothing can be done, you just drop dead by a unit who can't see you on the other side of the map.

That has always been the case though, since the very first playable demo of TOR.

So i'm quite confused how its "suddenly ruined" when its always been like this

They are OP. But you see, there are cannons in Empire and it can wipe hundreds of your troops out. On the contrary, if you get some cannons (or hire some Vampire companions) you just become unbeatable. Everything is OP in this mod, which means nothing has to be NERFed, I think.

I agree that a lot of things are extremely powerful in this mod, and don't really need to be nerfed much, as they're simply fun to play with. Empire's cannons are just as powerful, and they don't take companion slots, don't take winds of magic and aren't as easily eliminated. That's on top of the fact that Empire's troop roaster is just fantastic all around.
Playing as an Necrarch now, it does seem that the magic is you main tool for fighting anyone. You can kill hundreds, but at the same time you're very easily killed yourself, and your troops, outside of two elite units with costly upkeep, are very weak and fit mostly for the role of a meatshield.

That being said, I do find two issues with NPC/companion spellcasting.
First of all, they do a tonne of friendly fire kills. They don't seem to particularily care whether they'll hit their own units or not, and sometimes they even kill each other or me.
And secondly, their blast spells seem broken - they aren't cast directly from them, but rather at a large range, as if they were bombardment spells. I'm guessing it's not intended. It makes some of the cheap blast spells extremely effective in the hands of the AI.

Originally posted by serser52:

I agree that a lot of things are extremely powerful in this mod, and don't really need to be nerfed much, as they're simply fun to play with. Empire's cannons are just as powerful, and they don't take companion slots, don't take winds of magic and aren't as easily eliminated. That's on top of the fact that Empire's troop roaster is just fantastic all around.
Playing as an Necrarch now, it does seem that the magic is you main tool for fighting anyone. You can kill hundreds, but at the same time you're very easily killed yourself, and your troops, outside of two elite units with costly upkeep, are very weak and fit mostly for the role of a meatshield.

That being said, I do find two issues with NPC/companion spellcasting.
First of all, they do a tonne of friendly fire kills. They don't seem to particularily care whether they'll hit their own units or not, and sometimes they even kill each other or me.
And secondly, their blast spells seem broken - they aren't cast directly from them, but rather at a large range, as if they were bombardment spells. I'm guessing it's not intended. It makes some of the cheap blast spells extremely effective in the hands of the AI.

Yeah we are aware about the companions

I never comment on steam forums but I fell compeled to do it here! To be honest, the magic and cannons are overpowered in my opinion. I tried a siege battle and the enemy blasted more than half of the garrison including myself in the first few seconds of the siege. I defended with about 700 men against 1200 vampires units (which are good odds in siege defence for defending the walls is easier than assaulting them). Although I didn't get to the point of using canons, I guess it is similiraly unbalanced.

The simple fix I propose is to add a feature where you can change the values of the effects of magic and canons in the options.

I fully understand that there is a part of the player base which loves to blast entire armies with canons and magic and I really dont want them to lose this experience. But there are a few like me that love the usual clashing of armies and would still enjoy magic and canons but more in a supporting fashion as it must surely be like in the tabletop game.

If you read this, i thank you very much for I am just trying to add on this crucial topic.

Other than that, amazing mod all over!

TOR is still in early development, balancing tweaks will come in time, currently the main focus is bringing the world in order.

You can make adjustments to spell damage yourself in the xmls, if you know how.

The 'not able to have your companions as captains because they just murder large swaths of their own formation with spells' is legit pretty horrible.

Originally posted by i dont want to be around anymore:

The 'not able to have your companions as captains because they just murder large swaths of their own formation with spells' is legit pretty horrible.

All my spellcasters are captains.

The mod has the same problem that Total Warhammer has, which is there's stand in for Dispel Dice/Dispel Scrolls. Wizards are meant to be held back by other Wizards, or at a Lord/Hero bringing a dispel scroll or to. That at least buys you time to try and kill scary casters before that start wrecking formations.

feels good to be a vampire lord. empire manlets cant ever recover :D

Originally posted by R4MPZY:

All my spellcasters are captains.

Any tips for them not just blasting their own formations and themselves?

Just now I had a countess and vampire in their own formation by themselves, trying to micro them, and they both separately killed only themselves with their own spells, lol

Originally posted by R4MPZY:

The only strength VC has is their spells since all their units suffer debuffs and 50% hp debuff for undead

That is so true. People see one spell killed few men and they freak out and yell OP. I currently struggle as Mousillon against Bretonnia cavalry shootin tren up their ass. Unbeatable. My adept spells barely make a dent.