Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

SuperStates Mod
Dithyrambos Nov 23, 2015 @ 12:13am
Observations from a 360 year campaign
I'm way, way over the text limit acceptable for general replies so here's a lengthy thread.

Having played a campaign to about 1800 in multiplayer, I've got a fair bit of feedback.

Part of the problem with development isn't so much the number of monarch points available. Nerfing the AI down to rulers that have 6 points addresses part of the problem, but do remember that the AI gets 3 points by default in every category. And, by about the midpoint of the game, basically everyone of any size is rich enough to afford, at minimum, level 2 advisors. So even if you've only got 6 points from a ruler, you're still getting 9 plus whatever you can eke out of your advisors.

Dealing with this problem is a bit more nuanced than that. I'd attack this from two additional angles.

First, the tech groups are just too good. They're basically Western. I'd cut them down to parity with Anatolian. In addition to meaning nations will spend an additional 25% monarch points on tech (which isn't a big deal), it means that countries overseas can't westernize off the states. That's a bigger bonus to Australia and the Pacific states than the "Boreal-American" states, but the reduction in available monarch points will also decrease development expenditures.

Second, add a malus that increases the cost of developing provinces. Since I recently encountered a two province Aragonese Colombia with about 104 development, it's plainly a continent-wide concern. You can use an active modifier that increases development cost by 25-50% if the country's capital is in the New World. Alternatively, if you can figure out how to make it work, you could tie it to government type (since all these new countries have new government types). As yet another alternative, you could have an event fire for each of these countries that gives them an increased development cost until a fixed date of your choice (there are lots of campaign-long modifiers like this in vanilla). That might be the cleanest way to implement the change, provided the events don't all fire on day one and make EU4 implode or something.

Speaking of active modifiers: I like that you added some. I noticed a few that were +0.00 prestige, which was odd (Anime Convention, Big Texas). I don't know if that's a weird display issue (like how the icons for religions tend to be wonky) or what. But I'm a fan of active modifiers in general. They sort of establish campaign goals for me. And, speaking of that, there's the vanilla active modifier that confers a trade bonus if you've got an active trader in India. The countries you've added, since they're technically not Western, aren't eligible for that bonus.

A few other things I've observed and how they might be fixed.

1. Ohio and New Brunswick have *very* similar colors. Perhaps consider giving one a paler shade of red, perhaps more like Aragon's reddish-pink?

2. In my game as Texas, I discovered the Pope and got the event to convert to Catholic. Since I was American Baptist, I decided not to. The event (which has the fire_only_once = yes tag) never fired for anyone else. As a result of this, the rest of America remained Disconnected Catholic until the heat death of the universe. I don't know if the syntax of the event prevents it from ever firing for anyone else (which is possible) or if the event got really weird because the Italian states murdered the Papacy (while Scandinavia remained Catholic), but it's an oddity and probably not working as intended.

If it's not WAI, my suggestion is this: convert the existing event to "yay, +prestige!" for the country that discovered the Pope. Then implement a decision that is revealed once a disconnected catholic ("s_catholic") state discovers the Pope (or when the discovery spreads to them). If you include "ai_will_do { factor = 1 }", the AI will always take the decision. Slap the conversion stuff from the existing event into that decision and voila, problem solved. I would also add a caveat that only countries that explicitly have s_catholic as their state religion can actually see the event; you don't want Utah or Florida deciding that they need to convert immediately and getting saddled with 0% religious unity because all of their land is American Baptist.

3. California doesn't have gold. The guy I've been playing with kept getting salty about this. Please consider adding gold to a province before he reaches critical mass on the saltometer.

4. American Baptist could probably be Protestant. While Baptists constitute an abnormally large Protestant denomination (they're like four times the size of the largest Lutheran denomination), the game as a whole doesn't really differentiate between various shades of Protestantism. Anglicanism gets lumped under the same banner, after all.

5. Alaska, last I saw, was Orthodox. I understand if you were interested in that for historic reasons (or just variety), but Alaska is remarkably Protestant.

Despite the gripes I have (development is extremely frustrating, but I understand you're working to tone that down a bit), I've had a lot of fun with your mod. Cheers.
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KeoniPhoenix  [developer] Nov 23, 2015 @ 2:56am 
Thank you for your input, its a really great help. I've been particularly busy with work and haven't had much time to even talk to @Gr1f about anything and even figure out a way to cut down the ridiculous development that goes on.

I'm not aware of the AI getting +3 Monarch Points per category as its not listed in the EU4Wiki for the AI (url=http://www.eu4wiki.com/Artificial_intelligence]http://www.eu4wiki.com/Artificial_intelligence[/url]) and the code for the vanilla election events only gives three options to all nations (though the new elections event that will be part of 1.14 will include AI only and Player Only options so the players will actually be considerably more OP than normal.)

As for the tech groups, they're set equal to Western tech so they don't have too many problems with the Europeans when they arrive. Not that they should or will all the time, but this mod isn't suppose to be all that hard to play for newbie players. Especially since playing as Texas is probably the epitome of Easy Mode in a Paradox mod.

To solve the AI development problem is we're likely going to have to add a triggered modifier that increases the cost of developing provinces. Certain provinces I think should be developed by the AI no matter what, those being historical major cities, but I'm not sure what could be done to direct the AI to develop say New York City over say some frozen rock. Also the provinces need to have their increased development cost (extra_cost = 10) set so that they cost more in places that has inhospitable terrain, especially in the Canadian Arctic. Its something I didn't really consider as its just more work in editing the province histories during a time when I was trying to get it updated as soon as possible, but its not that much work to add now and is likely now just overdue.

Any triggered modifier that gives a Prestige bonus of +0.001 is intended to be an "achievement" and its only purpose is to say that you fulfilled the "achievement". Seeing how I can't add normal achievements, I went for the next best way I could think of. I'll make sure I add the States to the Indian trade triggered modifiers as its something I missed.

The rest of my response will be numbered to match your numbers:

1.) I'll look into that and see how close they are, if they're too close to my comfort I'll change it, if its close but distinguishable to me I'll have @Gr1f take a look and provide a second opinion.

2.) That's not working as designed because it was an oversight, that event has been changed so many times since the mod was released its drives me insane that it has so many problems with it. It will need a line added to the event triggers that it can only fire for Disconnected Catholics and likely get reworked again. I'm never satisfied with it.

3.) California isn't getting gold, period. The trade goods are based on modern trade in those provinces and there are no major gold mines in California that dominate any local economy. If a California player wants a gold mine, they should take the missions to annex Nevada for its "mechanical gold mines" as Nevada gets gold to represent its major gambling centers. I just added to the To Do list to add to California a flavor event that might resolve this matter through an event though.

4.) The seperation of American Baptist (which is actually suppose to represent Southern Baptist) from the vanilla Protestant group was done because the Southern culture is intertwined with the denomination. Its the only denomination that has a plurality in all the Southen States and its part of the identity of the entire South.

5.) Alaska has an event chain to switch to Orthodox, similar to Arizona switching to Mormon. I wasn't sure if it was working right, but it seems to be.
KeoniPhoenix  [developer] Nov 23, 2015 @ 3:03am 
BTW, I stayed up an extra hour and half to reply to this... I hope I'm not going to be too tired for work later.
Dithyrambos Nov 23, 2015 @ 11:59am 
Oh, yeah, Texas totally is easymode. That first idea is ridiculously good. Probably too good, in fact.

Anyway:

The +3 monarch points per category isn't an AI bonus because it's in the game by default. Every country, regardless of how good or bad their tech group and ruler may be, receives 3 points in every category every month. This used to be different (Indian/Chinese/Sub-Saharan/Native American used to receive reduced tech points per month) but it's now standardized in the form of just tech penalties. These 9 points are in addition to whatever your ruler generates and whatever your advisors generate. It's entirely possible, therefore, to get 3 points from just being around, 3 points from your advisor, and 6 points from your ruler in any given category (plus another 2 points from a national focus, I suppose, though that works by removing one point from the other two categories).

So, as an example, if Ohio elects a 4-1-1 and has level 2 advisors across the board, they're actually getting 4 (ruler) + 2 (advisor) + 3 (base) = 9 admin points per month and 6 diplo/military points per month; that's 21 points total or 252 per year. While electing a 5-4-5 (which is a ruler I recently got in an election -- amusingly, he was the "diplomatic" candidate) obviously gives more monarch points than a 4-1-1, the difference isn't that huge. Assuming the same advisors, the 5-4-5 ruler results in Ohio getting 29 points total or 348 per year. If it were *just* from rulers, then the difference would be significantly more pronounced: 72 per year with the 4-1-1, 168 per year from the 5-4-5. As you can see, 252 vs. 348 isn't as huge a gap as 72 vs. 168.

I would also point out that competing with Europeans is actually not terribly difficult. The AI is *awful* at dealing with wars on different continents unless it already has a significant presence there. I recently fought the UK over British Colombia and they never actually managed to deploy any troops to the New World, for whatever reason (though they had half their military in Mozambique because of course they did).

Maybe it would be worth starting the states at, say, Anatolian-tier tech. The Ottomans traditionally keep up with Europe on the tech front, especially later on when tech levels come more slowly. But that might be nerfing from both ends and wind up over-compensating. The combination of reduced ruler quality and increased development costs *might* be enough. And if you're applying a hemisphere-wide increase to development cost, you could single out the places you think the AI should develop (NYC, Philly, D.C., etc.) and give those individual provinces a modifier that reduces local development cost (development_cost = -0.1 would be a 10% cost reduction).

As for the various points: makes sense.

Cheers.
KeoniPhoenix  [developer] Nov 23, 2015 @ 10:29pm 
I totally forgot the base values for each tech group is the same at +3 for each Monarch Power on top of all other MP gained from rulers and bonuses.

I'm not going to drop the tech level down just yet. As I want to try other things first, but if it comes to that I'll give good reason why its necessary.

As for controlling development, I plan on doing that through modifiers that give reasonable bonuses to the top metropolitian areas by GDP which would only apply to the AI, Players generally have different goals than the AI that involves expanding and what not, so I'm less inclined to apply these maluses to players unless its clearly being abused in some way.
Last edited by KeoniPhoenix; Nov 23, 2015 @ 10:29pm
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