In the games I've seen played by others and in the one I'm playing currently, I have not seen either state be successful and its due to their isolation. Even scarier is the fact that for my game, they never allied with each other for their mutual benefit instead they got busy plotting against one another that only lead to their mutual destruction. Players who want to play as either need to face brutal reality that they're surrounded by unfriendly neighbors.

in my game, i decided to be the mexican state chiapas (to colonize, and to say, screw you states and europeans! im gonna colonize!) its been 5 years, and already idaho is 2 provences, and utah is 2 provences =p. any country who steals provences from them two become large overpowered blobs, usually arizona and oregon. i suggest you lower the tolerance of heretics by +1, so they can make freinds, allow them to convert to a heresy, and make idaho and utah historical friends, and program them to automatically be allied to each other, like portugal and castile, ottomans and crimea, etc.

Originally posted by shinyisgood:

in my game, i decided to be the mexican state chiapas (to colonize, and to say, screw you states and europeans! im gonna colonize!) its been 5 years, and already idaho is 2 provences, and utah is 2 provences =p. any country who steals provences from them two become large overpowered blobs, usually arizona and oregon. i suggest you lower the tolerance of heretics by +1, so they can make freinds, allow them to convert to a heresy, and make idaho and utah historical friends, and program them to automatically be allied to each other, like portugal and castile, ottomans and crimea, etc.

I'll definately make them allies. It makes considerable sense. And I'll change their religious modifiers so that they have tolerance_heretic = 2.

Originally posted by KeoniPhoenix:

Originally posted by shinyisgood:

in my game, i decided to be the mexican state chiapas (to colonize, and to say, screw you states and europeans! im gonna colonize!) its been 5 years, and already idaho is 2 provences, and utah is 2 provences =p. any country who steals provences from them two become large overpowered blobs, usually arizona and oregon. i suggest you lower the tolerance of heretics by +1, so they can make freinds, allow them to convert to a heresy, and make idaho and utah historical friends, and program them to automatically be allied to each other, like portugal and castile, ottomans and crimea, etc.

I'll definately make them allies. It makes considerable sense. And I'll change their religious modifiers so that they have tolerance_heretic = 2.

yay! i was hoping to play as utah, since my cousin lives there, but it is always too hard. thanks!

also, speaking of utah, i've never been to the south of utah, but i have been to salt lake city to meet my cousins. what i do know is that salt lake city has lots of mountains, and just last year, in early november, salt lake city already had around 5 inches of snow when it hasn't snowed yet on the east coast XD. i think that the terrain mapmode for northern utah (grand and salt lake, maybe westerm colorado) should have a higher chance of mountains, and in middle to late winter, at least for a month or two, have severe winter, then go back to normal when everything else does.

Edit: i love how salt lake city produces salt, and the only resource in the great plains is grain. XD

Originally posted by shinyisgood:

also, speaking of utah, i've never been to the south of utah, but i have been to salt lake city to meet my cousins. what i do know is that salt lake city has lots of mountains, and just last year, in early november, salt lake city already had around 5 inches of snow when it hasn't snowed yet on the east coast XD. i think that the terrain mapmode for northern utah (grand and salt lake, maybe westerm colorado) should have a higher chance of mountains, and in middle to late winter, at least for a month or two, have severe winter, then go back to normal when everything else does.

Edit: i love how salt lake city produces salt, and the only resource in the great plains is grain. XD

I'm aware of the terrain of Northern Utah. Paradox Interactive had to make Salt Lake an unrealistic bowl in order for the lake to be seen in the surrounding wasteland in the vanilla game. I would really like to get it fixed properly but unfortunately editing the terrain height file is really difficult.

During the era when Utah and California were petitioning for statehood, Congress was worried that if they denied California's request then they'd go off and form their own nation. Due to the fact that Utah's claimed territory (Deseret) overlapped a lot of California, there was a bit of talk of creating one massive state that encompassed both territories with Salt Lake City as its capital. Additionally, Mormons founded settlements in Southern California and traded with Los Angeles, due to these facts, perhaps making California and Utah historical friends or even allies might help out the Mormon woes.

(Note: You mispell Brigham Young in the mod quite a few times ;D)

EDIT: Another suggestion for Utah might be to add the unique government Theodemocracy for Deseret and maybe Utah. Not sure what bonuses they'd have but it would just add some flavor to it :P

Originally posted by Chimichanga:

During the era when Utah and California were petitioning for statehood, Congress was worried that if they denied California's request then they'd go off and form their own nation. Due to the fact that Utah's claimed territory (Deseret) overlapped a lot of California, there was a bit of talk of creating one massive state that encompassed both territories with Salt Lake City as its capital. Additionally, Mormons founded settlements in Southern California and traded with Los Angeles, due to these facts, perhaps making California and Utah historical friends or even allies might help out the Mormon woes.

(Note: You mispell Brigham Young in the mod quite a few times ;D)

EDIT: Another suggestion for Utah might be to add the unique government Theodemocracy for Deseret and maybe Utah. Not sure what bonuses they'd have but it would just add some flavor to it :P

Fixed the mispelling of Brigham for you.

Good point in that Deseret should get a Theocratic government, I didn't think about that. But not Utah, as a state it gets the governorship model. I am going to give Salt Lake City a religious center bonus as well. And Utah will be guaranteed by California for its trade relations.

Having Utah guaranteed by California makes for a really complicated strategy for the region. This could get interesting for players who want to play a Western US state.

My advice, ally California and pick your wars carefully. Some of the alliances that will form around you are going to be tough to beat even with Cali on your side. Locate the weakest allience and go to war with them. You don't nessicatrily need Idaho (infact in my most successful Utah playthrough they where one of the first I declared on) but if they don't rival you, consider allying them. Also at the start there is often one big war for Utah where either Colorado or Nevada will go on you with their allies (most likely Colorado though). Your goal in this war is not to take territory but to survive the war. If you can survive this war, then you will start to feel the game get slightly easier as you begin (but not much) as you expand around you. My advice, after this war, allow you and Cali to rebuild and check on Wyoming, who tends to be one of the easier targets around Utah.

Originally posted by mikestudios08:

My advice, ally California and pick your wars carefully. Some of the alliances that will form around you are going to be tough to beat even with Cali on your side. Locate the weakest allience and go to war with them. You don't nessicatrily need Idaho (infact in my most successful Utah playthrough they where one of the first I declared on) but if they don't rival you, consider allying them. Also at the start there is often one big war for Utah where either Colorado or Nevada will go on you with their allies (most likely Colorado though). Your goal in this war is not to take territory but to survive the war. If you can survive this war, then you will start to feel the game get slightly easier as you begin (but not much) as you expand around you. My advice, after this war, allow you and Cali to rebuild and check on Wyoming, who tends to be one of the easier targets around Utah.

The update I did today (Aug 31st @ 23:10 EDT) makes a few changes in the region, one of them being a change in which state guarantees Utah. Its now Arizona not California. But for the most part the big bad you have to avoid is going to be your immediate neighbors reguardless of who guarantees you, California is only a problem when you're big enough to make them worried.

Idaho #1, and yes i do agree you either have to be lucky that nobody attacks you then you strike when say washington is weak or if your lucky and get california as an ally.

as well the last time i played my homeland (idaho) i felt they had a little underpowered army, i feel it should be upgraded a wee bit as everyone in my part at least is armed to the teeth, though this is just a suggestion.

Originally posted by NinjaJuggernog:

Idaho #1, and yes i do agree you either have to be lucky that nobody attacks you then you strike when say washington is weak or if your lucky and get california as an ally. :mortis:

Tis the way it is in some places, actually I found that Louisiana is much harder because its Catholic in a sea of Baptists. That doesn't bode well for anybody at the start. To make it worse, Texas is next door and often will have intentions on expanding.

Originally posted by NinjaJuggernog:

as well the last time i played my homeland (idaho) i felt they had a little underpowered army, i feel it should be upgraded a wee bit as everyone in my part at least is armed to the teeth, though this is just a suggestion.

The mod is being rebalanced with the new fort system and new base tax,base production and base manpower numbers. Some states had a reduction in base_tax but for the most part they didn't loose too much. Idaho might have a smaller starting army, but nothing is set in stone just yet, but it does have a fort.

In my games where I play as Texas and focus on desroying NM, AZ, and CA (A not so good strategy, as the East is soooo much richer and will own you late game), I've seen Utah do pretty well. However, I'm pretty sure that's just from me beating up all their rivals for them