The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

Planetarium Chance [REP+]
Peachee  [developer] May 21, 2021 @ 2:21am
Downpore2/Dross2 mirror strangeness explained!
@MMOtte - Yes, I am aware of this unfortunate fact! I am the one that made that edit after a discovery in collaboration with the Modding of Issac discord server. Because of the way the game calculates your planetarium chance internally (not visible, nor modifiable by modders, however discovered through datamining), you will not gain any additional % for skipping the treasure room in the mirror world, however you will lose % for entering it.

The wiki is a little misleading in that it says your chance "increases by +20% when a Treasure Room is skipped", however it is actually calculated in such a way that you gain +20% for every floor you enter (40% for XL floors) and you lose 20% for every item room entered.

If we look at the formula provided in the references section of the wiki[bindingofisaacrebirth.fandom.com]:
(0.2 * (stage - treasurerooms_visited - 1)). The c and d stage variants, such as Mausoleum and Gehenna, are treated as stage + 1.[i/]
and place values for what would occur if we entered the mirrored Treasure Room (avoiding all others), (bearing in mind that Dross/Downpour is a c/d stage variant, and that the stage value for Dross/Downpour is equal to basement[wofsauge.github.io]+1) when calculating the chance for when we have just entered Downpour2/Dross2 (as the chance is calculated on level generation, as soon as you enter the floor), we get:
(0.2*(3-0-1)) = 0.4 (+1% base value) = 41%
Say we then enter the Mirror World and collect the knife piece, then head to the next floor (Caves1)
(0.2*(3-1-1)) = 0.2 (+1% base value) = 21%!

To make this a little easier to understand lets simulate a run
formula: (0.2 * (stage - treasurerooms_visited - 1))

Entering Basement1
Chance in Basement1 = (0.2*(1-0-1)) = 0.0 (+1% base value) = 1%
Ignorning Treasure Rooms and heading to boss room

Entering Downpour1/Dross1 (Alt Path)
Chance in Downpour1/Dross1 = (0.2*((1+1)-0-1)) = 0.2 (+1% base value) = 21%
Ignorning Treasure Rooms and heading to boss room

Entering Downpour2/Dross2
Chance in Downpour2/Dross2 = (0.2*((2+1)-0-1)) = 0.4 (+1% base value) = 41%
Grabing both the regular Treasure Room and the mirror Treasure Room

Entering Caves1
Chance in Caves1 = (0.2*(3-2-1)) = 0.0 (+1% base value) = 1%

Even though we skipped two item rooms! The main issue here is that Dross2/Downpour2 both has the same stage value as caves1 in the formula (whilst technically being an alternative to basement2) and that the game treats the mirrored Treasure Rooms as completely seperated Treasure Rooms from their original counterparts (you can open the console and use lua print(Game():GetTreasureRoomVisitCount()) to see how many the game itself is calculating with.

AS WELL AS technically not increasing the stage value when you complete Dross2/Downpour2 as The c and d stage variants, such as Mausoleum and Gehenna, are treated as stage + 1 so 2+1 (Downpour2/Dross2) is the same as 3 (Caves1).
Last edited by Peachee; May 21, 2021 @ 2:23am
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
MMOtte May 21, 2021 @ 2:36am 
Hi, thanks for the response.

After this, I noticed another consequence of this, that Forget Me Not of course doesn't increase the stage count, but can increase the number of treasure rooms visited.

While maybe not intuitive, seems fair, as it gives you another shot at a Planetarium, and if you do visit the Treasure Room, you of course stand to gain power.



Makes sense to me how it works now, but still doesn't make sense to me why the devs didn't choose to make the mirror world version from increasing the counter.

Sadly, I don't believe I have a head for modding the change, but hopefully someone with the skillset will come along and give it a shot :)
Peachee  [developer] May 21, 2021 @ 2:51am 
I can partly understand why they made it work this way, if it were as the wiki implied, then you should *always* go for altpath as you would get an extra 20%-40% for skipping the mirror realm and could effectively get treasure room items with no downside. However the mom's knife one is a strange choice as it makes you at a disadvantage for going for a specific ending. :steamsalty::steamsalty:
Rem Lezar May 21, 2021 @ 10:58am 
There's also the option of being able to D6/Perthro KP1 (on a non-corpse run) for the extra item. Just thought I would mention this.
Cute E May 21, 2021 @ 4:39pm 
Originally posted by MMOtte:
Hi, thanks for the response.
After this, I noticed another consequence of this, that Forget Me Not of course doesn't increase the stage count, but can increase the number of treasure rooms visited.
Worth noting it's called Forget Me Now, not Forget Me Not
Last edited by Cute E; May 21, 2021 @ 4:39pm
MMOtte May 21, 2021 @ 6:11pm 
Originally posted by Peachee:
I can partly understand why they made it work this way, if it were as the wiki implied, then you should *always* go for altpath as you would get an extra 20%-40% for skipping the mirror realm and could effectively get treasure room items with no downside. However the mom's knife one is a strange choice as it makes you at a disadvantage for going for a specific ending. :steamsalty::steamsalty:

Oh, that's not what I meant.

I was thinking a change where planetarium chance would not be affected at all by the mirror world item room. As in, the mirror world practically being invisible to the planetarium chance. Skipping it would not increase the chance, and entering it would not decrease the chance.
Xilande May 23, 2021 @ 3:15pm 
Doesn't coming out of Downpour 2 onto the main path put you on Caves 2, not Caves 1? Or do I have that wrong?
Cerp May 30, 2021 @ 10:05am 
Just curious if anyone has reported this to the devs? Maybe it wasn't intended to be this way and possibly and oversight? From the feedback on discord, it seems Kilburn has been hard at work still fixing bugs, oversights, balancing, adding content, etc. I'm going to report it as a bug and see if it possibly gets reworked in the future. I personally feel like it shouldn't be this way, although it is definitely advantageous to get the knife as it is very strong even if you aren't going to fight Mother. The problem is, if you are going to fight Mother you end up losing the knife.
Archer Jun 13, 2021 @ 9:04pm 
Yeah, grabbing the knife piece REALLY shouldn't hurt your planetarium chances. It's useless on its own, and you aren't punished for grabbing the second knife piece. Could it really be that hard to make the mirror world treasure room its own special kind of room from the perspective of the code? Even easier, they could just have the knife piece give you an extra 20% planetarium chance when you pick it up. If they don't want that to happen if you get it via the spindown dice, they could potentially make the knife only activate that buff if you go back through the mirror with it.
Essy Jun 27, 2021 @ 2:51am 
can someone do me a TL:DR? I'm not good at reading maths :jensen:
MMOtte Jun 27, 2021 @ 9:33am 
Originally posted by Essy:
can someone do me a TL:DR? I'm not good at reading maths :jensen:

TL;DR: Don't enter the Treasure Room in the Mirror World in Downpour/Dross II, unless you are 110% going towards Mother or have already found a Planetarium.

Entering decreases your Planetarium chance (by 20%, down to a mere 1% if you've only skipped one treasure room so far), but skipping it does not increase your chance.
Revalopod Sep 4, 2022 @ 4:48am 
This is fixed now isn't it?
Peachee  [developer] Sep 4, 2022 @ 10:44pm 
The chance statistic is now actually ripped from the game instead of having to be calculated manually, one of the issac devs must have seen our struggle with manual calculation and added in a lovely api - So whatever the chance displayed now, is exactly what the game is using, I'll double check this theory now that we have the info.
Peachee  [developer] Sep 4, 2022 @ 10:54pm 
@Revalopod this looks to be fixed now! Game():GetTreasureRoomVisitCount()[wofsauge.github.io] does now return the correct value of 0 if you enter the mirrored treasure room. Thanks ED!
Revalopod Sep 4, 2022 @ 11:40pm 
Nice!
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