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Europa Universalis IV >  Workshop > qweytr's Workshop > Extended Timeline > Discussions
Extended Timeline
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indiehindi Jul 23, 2021 @ 4:28pm
Khan / Khanate Titles
With the exception of Mongol culture group none of the steppe nomads have Khanate for their government title and Khan for their ruler title.

Is this a mod tweak or something from vanilla? I dont know because I did not play vanilla for years.

Also there's a huge misconception with the title of Khan; some pseudo historians claiming the title of Khan started with Temujin, I hope thats not the case.

Kan means blood in Turkish and Father in all Old Turkic langs. Later Kan (father) becomes the Khan title. Its same as

Cin > Cyning > King

Kun / Kon > Konungr > Konungaz

Kyn > Kynas > Kniaz

Kyn > Kyrr > Kyrai > Kralj

... the list goes on.
That applies to Turkic version Kan > Khan > Khagan
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qweytr  [developer] Jul 24, 2021 @ 8:57am 
Turkic nomads should also have Khans.

Originally posted by indiehindi:
Khan > Khagan
That is the other way around though. Khagan is older and turned into Khan when the g became silent around the time of Genghis Khan. In that sense it's accurate that the title of Khan started around the time of Temujin.
#1
indiehindi Jul 24, 2021 @ 7:31pm 
Originally posted by qweytr:
Turkic nomads should also have Khans.

Originally posted by indiehindi:
Khan > Khagan
That is the other way around though. Khagan is older and turned into Khan when the g became silent around the time of Genghis Khan. In that sense it's accurate that the title of Khan started around the time of Temujin.

Irrational. I presented the etymological reason behing the title Khan.
How can you go from Kan to Khagan then back to Khan ? Turkic languages doesnt work like that.

I know that majority of people even Turks dont know Kan means father and ruler. Some idiots out there claim Ata to be the original father. But thats just child language, that exists within all languages.

Toddler goes ''tatatatata'' and parents say he/she is calling for Ata, his father.
Or even with ''mamamama'' Turks say kids asking for food, Indo-Europeans say it means Mother.
Easy to see where Papa or Dady and many others comes from.

So Kan is the original term for Father and Ruler, this is where the these titles derive from.

Also Khagan is a variation of Hakan. Same mindset with Da - Chanyu = Ha - Khan.
Mongols pronounce this KH as K or even G while for Turks its just H.
So the consonants can change inbetween K and H, making Hakan and Khagan variation of each other.

Ha-Kan > Kha-Kan > Kha-Gan

Even Chingis title (meaning ocean) had been used before Temujin. I assume you yourself coded some of the Hunnic, Cuman, Volga-Bulgar or even Khazar monarch names as Dengisic.

I dont think I have to remind you D - J - C consonant changes inbetween languages and translations in times.

The idea behind is that Deniz / Denghiz / Jenghiz / Chingis is the Khan that sorrounds and rules and reigns over all the others. Steppe nomads did not have a different term for both Ocean and Sea, they only had Deniz. As Deniz surrounds all the land mass, so does Temujin (and many great khans before him) all the other khans and people.

Anyways, maybe its better for me to change it and give Khan title to Turkics by myself.
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