Torchlight II

Torchlight II

Ethereal Blade (v.2.19)
Gurei  [developer] Sep 18, 2019 @ 12:16am
Suggestions, ideas and balance issues
Just like mentioned in topic, I would like to ask everyone interested in the class mod to discuss and share insight regarding the gameplay: is the class balanced fair? How are the visual aspects? Should there be something changed/updated/balanced?

Feel free to post your opinions and suggestions to making this class even better, I can't do it by myself :)
Last edited by Gurei; Sep 18, 2019 @ 12:25am
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
SonOfKrypton Sep 18, 2019 @ 4:29am 
Hi, Gurei! I'm yet trying out the build in Veteran with Synergies Mod, and I'm having some issues with survivability at the moment. It might something I'm not doing correctly. But I got a feeling it moght need some more toughness reduction passives, or the like. Just my two cents. Once I hit 100 and take on tougher maps I'll let you know. Cheers!
Gurei  [developer] Sep 18, 2019 @ 6:23am 
@ Bitterblossom:

Hey there, as for the overall character balance, I already mentioned in disclaimer that mod at current moment is balanced more towards Vanilla game (or with T2 Essentials mod on which it was tested by me - and AFAIK it's a mod that have similar difficulty like Vanilla game).

I haven't tested it with Synergies, but I heard it increases difficulty of the game substantially, as such I'm not surprised it may not translate well to that difficulty spike. You can see that it may be hard to balance character survivability with both of those cases in mind.

As for damage reduction, class currently offers:

- Innate 20% all damage reduction
- Charge bar at max 10% all damage reduction
- Refined Physique Passive 15% all damage reduction (on max LVL)
- Absolute Field (starting from 3% Physical to 6% all damage reduction per enemy in range of 7m for up to 2 min on max LvL)

Mutually exclusive reductions from Finesse and Overpower trees:
- Hurricane Rising 5% -> 15% (1 -> 15 LVL)
OR
- Overpower Unrelenting Rage 5% -> 15% (1 -> 15 LVL)

I do know that those bonuses after a certain threshold are not cummilative but multiplicative, but for the sake of the argument - combining that all above You get a whooping:

- 35% damage reduction with only passives
- 45% with charge bar full
- 60% with either Hurricane Rising or Unrelenting Rage
- additionaly +6% all reduction per enemy

I think that is quite substantial amount, but as I've said, it may be enough for Vanilla/Essentials. As for Synergies I have no idea if that is close to passable.

Class mod also offers passives at reduced levels - You only need 10 points to max a passive out, and also additionally You recieve +1 skill point every 5 levels which even more helps boosting those damage reduction passives early in game.

As for survivability, I had some small issues myself on end of 2nd Act and start of 3rd Act, but it was due to me being severely undergeared at that moment. On which act/lvl are You currently sitting?
Last edited by Gurei; Sep 18, 2019 @ 7:50am
steffire3 Sep 18, 2019 @ 1:14pm 
Originally posted by Bitterblossom:
Hi, Gurei! I'm yet trying out the build in Veteran with Synergies Mod, and I'm having some issues with survivability at the moment. It might something I'm not doing correctly. But I got a feeling it moght need some more toughness reduction passives, or the like. Just my two cents. Once I hit 100 and take on tougher maps I'll let you know. Cheers!

You may need some Health Regens / Steals, +Max Health, Chance to Reflect Missiles and increased Dodge / Block Chances.

A mod I recommend for Players which helps to mitigate gaps in Builds is to use the Lao 2.0 Chaos mod and for even more effectiveness also include the Running Wild mod above it.
SonOfKrypton Sep 18, 2019 @ 3:35pm 
Originally posted by steffire3:
Originally posted by Bitterblossom:
Hi, Gurei! I'm yet trying out the build in Veteran with Synergies Mod, and I'm having some issues with survivability at the moment. It might something I'm not doing correctly. But I got a feeling it moght need some more toughness reduction passives, or the like. Just my two cents. Once I hit 100 and take on tougher maps I'll let you know. Cheers!

You may need some Health Regens / Steals, +Max Health, Chance to Reflect Missiles and increased Dodge / Block Chances.

A mod I recommend for Players which helps to mitigate gaps in Builds is to use the Lao 2.0 Chaos mod and for even more effectiveness also include the Running Wild mod above it.
Thank you for your quick reply and suggestions! Will check both mods out.
I'm also going to start a new game without Synergies, and see how the damage output and mitigation feels in Veteran and Essentials installed. I'm no good with numbers but maybe I can give some feedback on how it feels in comparison to vanilla or other classes.
But I'm really liking the all of the skills so far. Animations and sound effects are spot on, good job!

(just a quick thought, maybe someone in the forums with experience in Synergies and crunching numbers could suggest what to buff to make it Synergies Elite viable?)
steffire3 Sep 18, 2019 @ 8:22pm 
Originally posted by Bitterblossom:
(just a quick thought, maybe someone in the forums with experience in Synergies and crunching numbers could suggest what to buff to make it Synergies Elite viable?)

I'm glad you found the suggested mods helpful and as for Synergies worthy mod class Builds, I would say that the Otaku Fighter (Fighting Arts mod) is a good candidate with it's 15% Health Steal Passive paired with that big blue beam Skill. It helps to have all those good Defensive Bonuses as well including Damage Taken Reduced totaling at 75% most likely gained from Socket Items.
Last edited by steffire3; Sep 18, 2019 @ 8:23pm
*Yuki* Sep 29, 2019 @ 12:15pm 
rename "unlimited arsenal" to "unlimited bladeworks" :emofdr:
Gurei  [developer] Sep 29, 2019 @ 12:59pm 
Originally posted by *Yuki*:
rename "unlimited arsenal" to "unlimited bladeworks" :emofdr:

I'd better not :) I specifically named it that way as a nod to the fate series. And besides, it's more Gate of Babylon themed than UBW itself anyway.
Last edited by Gurei; Sep 29, 2019 @ 1:18pm
yarnosh Nov 6, 2019 @ 10:36am 
Playing Veteran with Essentials... having trouble with survivability and the Finesse tree. For levels 0-30 I did a lot of reskilling and tinkering with gear, but I find it way too easy to get overwhelmed when dual wielding. Needs more AoE and something like Juggernaut. Sure, I happened to pick up some nice Unique greatswords so that helps, but dual wielding just can't beat swinging a massive sword/axe while periodically sending out bursts when you get surrounded. Plus the greatsword has better secondary target damage. Maybe the issue is that Overpower tree is too... overpowered? I am not that good of a player. I shouldn't be mopping up like this on Veteran :)
Gurei  [developer] Nov 7, 2019 @ 11:19am 
Originally posted by yarnosh:
Playing Veteran with Essentials... having trouble with survivability and the Finesse tree. For levels 0-30 I did a lot of reskilling and tinkering with gear, but I find it way too easy to get overwhelmed when dual wielding. Needs more AoE and something like Juggernaut. Sure, I happened to pick up some nice Unique greatswords so that helps, but dual wielding just can't beat swinging a massive sword/axe while periodically sending out bursts when you get surrounded. Plus the greatsword has better secondary target damage. Maybe the issue is that Overpower tree is too... overpowered? I am not that good of a player. I shouldn't be mopping up like this on Veteran :)

Thanks for the input! I also personally played with Finesse tree during my main test playthrough, and it was also on Veteran with Essentials Mod. While I agree that sometimes It can be a bit overwhelming, especially on NG (without much of available skills) it was, at least in my case, mostly fault for being undergeared at that time.

And that was my playthrough EVEN BEFORE uploading mod itself to Steam. Since uploading I did numerous tweaks towards the all skill trees and overall character survival and damage was SIGNIFICANTLY buffed to a more comfortable degree.

Some skills can help You greatly with survivability, I made some passives to be one-point-wonders more or less, especially with finesse tree:
- 1 point in critical sense gives you ability to heal 5% of Max HP on critical strike (bigger % - bigger bonus to heal and critical bonus)
- 1 point in Counter Flow grants you long-term bonus that scales directly from Dexterity to all armor. True, armor can be lackluster, but that's usually on NG+, on NG hefty bonus to All Armors can help You greatly.
- 1 point in Hurricane Rising gives you temporary buff that also absorb a portion of flat damage

As for other ways to mitigate damage taken You have:
- Refined Physique - 1.5% all damage reduction per level (along with % Max HP and All Armor)
- Absolute Field - buff that gives x% damage reduction per enemy near You
- Phantom Step - mainly an escape tool along with temporary armor and dodge boost

Remember that the order (more-or-less) of which stuff You want to stack to significantly increase survivability, are:

Damage Reduction > Max HP = Lifesteal > Projectile Deflect > Dodge > Armor

When it comes to dual wielding, true, You may lose some raw and secondary target damage, but You gain another weapon slot which can be augmented and/or provide any other bonuses which is locked when playing a 2-hander otherwise.

As for AoE I think both skill trees (Finesse and Overpower) have a equal amount of AoE skills, maybe You can try and check "Techniques" tree? Those skills over there may scale with Focus and "Ethereal Conduit" passive, but damage is (I think) very compelling to at least giving it a try.

That being said, I was prepared that there could be some balance issues, and sadly I'm not omnipotent when it comes to balancing, hell, this is my first class mod ever, so I'll try to fix stuff if there will be major issues. I was thinking about maybe reducting Finesse offensive skills cooldown even more to maybe balance things with Overpower, but that depends on overall feedback.

For now maybe try my tips and see how it goes.
Last edited by Gurei; Nov 7, 2019 @ 11:27am
DragonNOOB Nov 23, 2019 @ 9:25pm 
So I just found this class mod and so far I have been having a blast. I have wanted a class like for long time. Although while playing I was able to notice some things that I wanted to point out for balancing and possible other fixes.

Thundering cleave feels rather weak to me. I have it sitting on level 5 and my character is focusing on mostly physical damage. This skill feels rather week to me although that might be due to low focus and elemental damage. The thing is the overpower tree seems to mostly focused on raw physical weapon damage. So this skill having low %weapon damage but high flat lightning damage feels rather weird to me. My suggestion is raise the % weapon damage and the base cooldown by a second or two while lowing the lightning damage a tad or let it only kick in with you hit certain tiers with the skill.

Adrenaline Crash feels really good although I feel like its range and width could be increased slightly possibly?

Carnage Split seems rather broken to me. Almost every time I use it I miss my target or the damage is very little. This may be because I have yet to the tier 1 unlock which may fix this issue?

The regeneration from Juggernaut is super good but I feel like to is a bit too high. I mean just at level 1 it can quickly get above 50+ regenation per second with mixed gear. Perhaps increase the bonus per point into the skill and lower the scaling a bit?

Lastly I am rather confused why the Overpower tree has skills that are either electric or fire. Shouldn't the tree tab focus on 1 element, most likely fire? This is likely just a design choice by you but it makes the class more difficult to build on.

I love the phantom step / flash step. it is by far one the best movement skill I have seen in a game.

Overall I love this class mod and just wanted to give my input on my thoughts going forward.
Gurei  [developer] Nov 24, 2019 @ 11:13am 
Originally posted by DragonNOOB:
So I just found this class mod and so far I have been having a blast. I have wanted a class like for long time. Although while playing I was able to notice some things that I wanted to point out for balancing and possible other fixes.

Thundering cleave feels rather weak to me. I have it sitting on level 5 and my character is focusing on mostly physical damage. This skill feels rather week to me although that might be due to low focus and elemental damage. The thing is the overpower tree seems to mostly focused on raw physical weapon damage. So this skill having low %weapon damage but high flat lightning damage feels rather weird to me. My suggestion is raise the % weapon damage and the base cooldown by a second or two while lowing the lightning damage a tad or let it only kick in with you hit certain tiers with the skill.

Adrenaline Crash feels really good although I feel like its range and width could be increased slightly possibly?

Carnage Split seems rather broken to me. Almost every time I use it I miss my target or the damage is very little. This may be because I have yet to the tier 1 unlock which may fix this issue?

The regeneration from Juggernaut is super good but I feel like to is a bit too high. I mean just at level 1 it can quickly get above 50+ regenation per second with mixed gear. Perhaps increase the bonus per point into the skill and lower the scaling a bit?

Lastly I am rather confused why the Overpower tree has skills that are either electric or fire. Shouldn't the tree tab focus on 1 element, most likely fire? This is likely just a design choice by you but it makes the class more difficult to build on.

I love the phantom step / flash step. it is by far one the best movement skill I have seen in a game.

Overall I love this class mod and just wanted to give my input on my thoughts going forward.

Thank You very much for the feedback, I highly encourage players to give me reviews and stuff I could work on. I didn't had much feedback, so Your opinion is really helpful. Let's then start from top:

1. Thundering Cleave - I wanted to create a skill for "spamming" so to speak, will relatively low CD and as such, not so broken damage. All offensive skills from Finesse/Overpower are % DPS based, meaning those will be highly gear dependent. This alongside Cross Edge are meant to be used very often, and both of those convey on-hit and lifesteal effects (in contrast to other skills) as such making those OP would make those really inbalanced later in game.

(Please note that vanilla game SUPPOSEDLY calculated DPS % skills alongside with increased % soak scale, meaning that all skills with Weapon Damage DPS above 100% had enemy use the same amount of % of armor, rendering any +100% damage pointless. In this mod I removed it so enemy always use 100% armor, but not more than that, meaning that skills with damage above 100% Weapon DPS are significantly stronger, hence the cooldown mechanic)

As for skill itself, it was given flat lightning damage (which scales with level and focus) to offset Cross Edge bonues to critical hit and damage. But regarding your elemental damage feedback (see point 5) I will probably remake this skill into something else.

2. I will think about range/projectile size for AC, maybe I will increase its size and range further, but only starting from Tier I.

3. Carnage split have 2 damage ticks - one for initial hit and second for explosion (hits initial target). Damage was tested (even more than) multiple times so there shouldn't be a issue there, but as for hitting the target, You are prone to knockback during the casting animation, thats why there is helpful Tier I knockback immunity to offset this. But I know this could be incredibly annoying so I will increase the hitbox for the initial hit to help targeting a little, along with increased casting speed.

4. Juggernaut healing is based on your Vitality stat, meaning the more you have, the better it will be. On higher levels on NG+ or more, it won't be as usefull as on NG0, but I did made already a tweak regarding the restored HP amount and already implemented it in new build

5. Thanks for pointing out the elemental disparity between skills, I first wanted Overpower tree to be lighting/fire oriented, but I think going into 1 element would be less restrictive for player so I will remake lightning skills into physical or fire in near future.
Last edited by Gurei; Nov 25, 2019 @ 8:17am
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