I think I said this somewhere before, maybe in different form, but can primal wish be a trait rather than an aspect. Hear me out, while mutation affinity is totally nice, it's kind of one side of the coin. Basically mutation affinity is about anthropomorphic animal, or animalised human whatever you want to call it.

Now if changed into full animal they get 0 mood points unless they have primal wish. That's ok, because being an animal is not what mutation affinity is about. But now what I'm here to suggest. What is called primal wish in the real world? I don't know how extensive or not your knowledge is, but the closest thing we have is either otherkin/therian thing.

Both of which refer well not necessarily to want to be, but only identity. For otherkin it's anything different than your human body (excluding gender stuff) and for therians it's exactly a non-human animal. While neither directly says anything about wanting to change I'd say it's hard to find any otherkin/therian that wouldn't like to change given chance, I’m speaking non-official statistics and my own experience wise.

So in conclusion I'd like to again ask for primal wish to be trait rather than aspect and technically speaking you could change it to therianthrophy. Even more so therianthrophy could be reflected correctly as there's a varying number of who feels like something. That could mean that maybe a primal wish could be a trait and a specific identity could be ascribed as aspect? Maybe, I'm just throwing ideas. There’s a lot going in the head of therians In general and these emotional states could be reflected too. There’s just so much I could write here, but most of it just shows why I care rather than why mod team should care. Still I can always explain more if you want.

Either way a great mod, nothing is on my must have list expect EDB and this. 10/10 I was also wondering, what about this bug people, any plans for doing them finally? And a thing I didn’t see in files (at least so far ) will there ever be a final change into one of this giant or small insects, would hive mind act differently? Sorry for reddit format of my comment, I kind of got used to writing like this. Anyways thanks for the mod it’s awesome :D Both for my soul and my war crimes (after all something had to be crown example in my war crimes guide)

@nice feet bro

Hi, thanks for the post. I'll go through some of this:

> What is the point of this mod?
Mad science. Create mutants for use in combat, mutagenic weapons to mutate raiders and even "farm" mutants if you want. We're going with the classic sci-fi animal-people mutants because that's fun.

> Do you intend to eventually include serums to change pawn genders?
Doubtful. Plasteel Surgery does this and beyond 'animals sometimes being a different gender from the original pawn', it's not something we're going to touch on.

> Do you intend to eventually add inanimate transformations?
No. I...don't see how that would work or be particularly useful. However, I did have an idea for a couple of abilities that the future mutagenic cult could use: "Petrify" and "Lignify", though these are 'attacks'. But that's as far as it'll go.

> PLEASE let us grow a plant that lets us make the base slurry.
Are you using the latest version? You can. It's the second tech that branches off, 'mutagenic plants'. Grow chaobulbs, refine them directly into slurry.

> Additionally, I think serums shouldn't fully transform pawns garunteed
They don't. It's configurable in the mod options but by default is 50%.

> This could be increased to 100% through the acceleration pills and the feral pills, obviously.
Yes, that's exactly how it works. :P

> Namely during their sapient stage, the player is punished for letting them undergo a full transformation.
I mean, it's not really a good thing?

> This makes little sense especially if the pawn has the mutation affinity trait.
MA's just like mutation. They can get the 'primal wish' aspect as an additional development which makes them much more OK with it

> moodlets that cannot be solved no matter how hard the player tries. (things like naked, darkness, ate raw food, etc)
- Naked, yeah, though this effect lessens the lower the sapience gets.
- Darkness, uh, make lights in your base? Colonists get this too.
- Ate raw food, you can set food restrictions for sapient animals.

Treat them like you'd treat a colonist and they'll be happier.

> In my opinion, they ought to lose all their negative moodlets after around 10 hours ingame
The sapience need does this on a longer timescale. And 10 hours is far too short, especially for fully sapient animals. Nobody is going to be ok with being an animal after just 10 hours.

Thanks again for the post, just make sure you're using the latest version. ^^

@Commander Kangaroo

We were going to make it its own trait, but we went with an aspect to avoid trait bloat. I notice a lot of mods just add a lot of traits and this takes up many slots -- and unless you have a mod to change it pawns only get three. It's bad enough we're adding MA as a trait, to be honest. I'd rather not add any and just have the aspect system (but that doesn't work in the context of knowing whether someone will like mutations or not).

Plus, while 'mutation affinity' could be considered as analogous to 'furry' (other non-animal mutations pending) we don't name it that since it's a) very on the nose and b) not the theme we want to go with. For the same reason I don't think we'll be renaming the aspect -- it doesn't fit the theme and I don't want to explicitly make connections to real-world identities -- inevitably someone would find fault with how we'd chosen to represent it. I have no experience with otherkin/therians or therianthropy, and doubt it could be represented in the mod in a way that caters to all audience and does the concept justice.

We have a number of other things we're needing to polish before starting on other big features (or bug features) and currently I don't have an ETA on this.

Is it possible to have mutagenic food items disabled from being included in meals by default? similar to how insect meat is not normally included in meals unless you allow it. Same with Morphsilk or similar materials. Would also help if descriptions for materials were tweaked to differentiate between 'unpleasant', 'risky' and 'potentially horrible' results from using those things. It's also to make it less likely that an important material will be used up just in meal preparation.

Looking at this mod from more of a biological horror point of view as far as the early game goes. You wouldn't want to be eating or drinking something reportedly dubious without testing it on a prisoner or two first, unless desperate. Once you have a handle of things, you might want to look into augmenting some of your willing pawns, but there's always a risk. Until then, it should be the same level of frightening as toxic fallout.

Additionally, someone who is xenophobic should be freaking out more when they start changing. Or lose the trait, if possible, once they've been had to walk a mile in the other person-like's shoes.

Uh, they definitely should be excluded by default from meals.

Also, Body Purist is the trait you're after, Xenophobe just means they hate other races (but says nothing about themselves).

Първоначално публикувано от Mic:

Also, Body Purist is the trait you're after, Xenophobe just means they hate other races (but says nothing about themselves).

Should still result in a more pronounced short term freak-out when they change races. Possibly a mini panic attack similar to being on fire if changing in combat.

Ah, that's already something I raised -- even for normal people they should have a freakout once they notice mutations.

Unsure if this has already been suggested but an option to change the "Transformation paralysis" to something more severe would be good for me in particular.

As it stands, i have a mod that adds an animal that has a x50% pain multiplier. Meaning they take half as much pain as usual. Due to this, they are not downed by transformation paralysis.

I think that just adding an option in a settings menu to change the existing transformation paralysis into something like "Max consciousness 1%" or something like that would be beneficial for people like me who have specific animals which aren't downed by that hediff.

-Mutanite needs a more reliable way to obtain it. I understand it you want things like mutaguns and reversion syringes to be hard to obtain, but this shouldn't be completely chance based like it is now. The only way I've seen to get these are meteors and crashed ship parts (both of which I've gotten fairly late into the game without encountering. I have yet to see a trader sell mutanite). Perhaps mutanite could be obtained through drilling, crafted with high tier research and/or resources, produced if a pawn gets a certain mutation, dropped by the mutagenic cult or found at certain faction bases. But I shouldn't need to win the lottery before I can get it.

-Mutation based mental breaks (Perhaps reserve these for the morp races that are "no longer considered human" but not animals). Predator (Panther, bear, etc.) morphs could go on hunting sprees (like their fully converted variants), beast of burden morphs (horses, donkeys) could go on hauling sprees (similar to compulsive cleaning), herbivores could start eating your crops, etc. This could also affect the chances of getting existing mental breaks (Predators would get social fighting like breaks while prey would get more antisocial like breaks)

-A drug that is basically the opposite of the mutapill feral. Instead of tipping the scales in favor of a pawn turning into an animal, it would make it less likely for them to fully convert. Useful if you want to load up a pawn with as many mutations as possible. This could be priced more or less the same as a stabilizer.

-The monkey tail mutation should increase a pawns manipulation ability.

-Mutation trees that result in bigger animals (Thrumbo, megasloth, etc.) should have a mutation that physically increases a pawns display size. The opposite should happen for mutation trees that result in smaller animals (Rat, hare, etc.). These mutations could also affect other stats like move speed, attack speed and attack damage.

-The ability to show mutations on aliens and children (even the Alien Children Compatibility patch doesn't help.) Perhaps alien races could be whitelisted in the mod settings?

-Androids and robots should be completely immune to mutagens. Even from fallouts.

-If you are looking for more mutation paths, try looking into the mutation system in Cataclysm DDA. Something like the genetically unstable/genetic chaos traits could be fun as well.

-Are there actual ways to get the gutswell, intoxica, ichoric, gellic, and prototoxica mutations? I honestly don’t know. But if not, there definitely should be. They could either be parts of new mutation branches (insect could get gellic, plants could get gutswell, ichoric and/or prototoxica, and fungus could get intoxica). Alteternitivly, these could also be rare mutations gained through production mutaserum or a more expensive injection. Perhaps these could even be found on pawns available through more difficult quests.
-Mutagenic lab structures full of hostile scientists/guards (wielding mutagenic weaponry), morph test subjects (some with the more obscure production mutations like prototoxica), and equipment. This could add a fun challenge to invade or perhaps even a fun scenario where morphs try to escape from one. Also this would be a fun and reliable way to get mutanite. The same could be done with muta-cult bases.

-A natrually mutagenic wasteland biome using the plants and animals already in this mod. Perhaps this could also make use of the mutagenic fallout effect.

-Expensive mutagenic weapons of mass destruction. Destroy a faction base by transforming all of its people into animals or quickly transform the landscape into a wasteland.

@NatureRowan

Първоначално публикувано от NatureRowan:

-Mutanite needs a more reliable way to obtain it. I understand it you want things like mutaguns and reversion syringes to be hard to obtain, but this shouldn't be completely chance based like it is now. The only way I've seen to get these are meteors and crashed ship parts (both of which I've gotten fairly late into the game without encountering. I have yet to see a trader sell mutanite). Perhaps mutanite could be obtained through drilling, crafted with high tier research and/or resources, produced if a pawn gets a certain mutation, dropped by the mutagenic cult or found at certain faction bases. But I shouldn't need to win the lottery before I can get it.

Mutanite can be found using the long range mineral scanner, we also have a new building in the works that would produce mutanite from slurry/chaobulbs slowly overtime similar to the biofuel refinery, admittedly both of these would be late game options

Първоначално публикувано от NatureRowan:

-Mutation based mental breaks (Perhaps reserve these for the morp races that are "no longer considered human" but not animals). Predator (Panther, bear, etc.) morphs could go on hunting sprees (like their fully converted variants), beast of burden morphs (horses, donkeys) could go on hauling sprees (similar to compulsive cleaning), herbivores could start eating your crops, etc. This could also affect the chances of getting existing mental breaks (Predators would get social fighting like breaks while prey would get more antisocial like breaks)

We’ve been wanting to create some more breaks for sapient animals and/or morphs, these are pretty cool ideas, I’ll see about adding them

Първоначално публикувано от NatureRowan:

-Mutation trees that result in bigger animals (Thrumbo, megasloth, etc.) should have a mutation that physically increases a pawns display size. The opposite should happen for mutation trees that result in smaller animals (Rat, hare, etc.). These mutations could also affect other stats like move speed, attack speed and attack damage.

Attack speed/damage/move speed buffs are easy enough, but draw size changes were being looked into previously. Unfortunately Rimworld’s rendering system is not flexible at all when it comes to dynamically changing the draw size of things, it has to be for a whole race, and even then you have to be careful about how you do it. It was shelved because the time needed to get it working well wasn’t worth it compared to working on bug fixes and other features at the time. It might be looked into again in the future but I can’t make any promises

Първоначално публикувано от NatureRowan:

-The ability to show mutations on aliens and children (even the Alien Children Compatibility patch doesn't help.) Perhaps alien races could be whitelisted in the mod settings?

This is being looked into, however it would have to be opped into by the mod author or a patcher, as they would have to add Pawnmorpher specific HAF body addons to get the mutations to show up properly, and may have to account for the aliens possibly already having a muzzle/tail/etc. If we get any race authors or anyone else who would want to patch in mutation graphics for a race I’d be happy to walk them through how it’s done and how to enable it for their race, however we’re stretched thin as it is on making mutation graphics/offsets for just humans so we can’t really take on aliens atm.

Първоначално публикувано от NatureRowan:

-Androids and robots should be completely immune to mutagens. Even from fallouts.

You’re right they should be >.> Unfortunately this is bug that refuses to go away, I’ll look into fixing it in the next release

Първоначално публикувано от NatureRowan:

-If you are looking for more mutation paths, try looking into the mutation system in Cataclysm DDA. Something like the genetically unstable/genetic chaos traits could be fun as well.

Haven’t heard of Cataclysm DDA before, and just taking a quick look into now there do seem to be some cool ideas we could use from there

Първоначално публикувано от NatureRowan:

-Are there actual ways to get the gutswell, intoxica, ichoric, gellic, and prototoxica mutations? I honestly don’t know. But if not, there definitely should be. They could either be parts of new mutation branches (insect could get gellic, plants could get gutswell, ichoric and/or prototoxica, and fungus could get intoxica). Alteternitivly, these could also be rare mutations gained through production mutaserum or a more expensive injection. Perhaps these could even be found on pawns available through more difficult quests.

They are currently unobtainable outside of dev tools, they’re very much a work in progress and planned to be related to a (maybe) upcoming expansion. We’re still planning on how/if these ideas will work so I can’t say much about them.

Първоначално публикувано от NatureRowan:

-Mutagenic lab structures full of hostile scientists/guards (wielding mutagenic weaponry), morph test subjects (some with the more obscure production mutations like prototoxica), and equipment. This could add a fun challenge to invade or perhaps even a fun scenario where morphs try to escape from one. Also this would be a fun and reliable way to get mutanite. The same could be done with muta-cult bases.

-A naturally mutagenic wasteland biome using the plants and animals already in this mod. Perhaps this could also make use of the mutagenic fallout effect.

-Expensive mutagenic weapons of mass destruction. Destroy a faction base by transforming all of its people into animals or quickly transform the landscape into a wasteland.

This is similar to the above. These ideas, while really cool, probably won’t make it into the base mod. however there are some ideas for an expansion being thrown around/tested on the dev team, but it’s still really early on so I can’t say much about how/if these ideas would fit in, just too early to tell

Maybe this could work with dragon's descent? Dragonmorphs would be awesome, maybe they could even have a firebreath mutation.

In the Discord I saw the Dragonmorphs,don't know if they're gonna be from Dragon's Descent

Първоначално публикувано от Courier 69:

In the Discord I saw the Dragonmorphs,don't know if they're gonna be from Dragon's Descent

they are. work in progress. because the artist working on them is lazy a beginner

If you're having trouble getting Mutanite at all, before long range mineral scanners, I recommend using the Quarries mod and adjusting its table to add Mutanite at somewhere around a 0.25% chance. In my experience that makes it rare enough that it's something you'll generally get a bit of from clearing out a quarry pit, but not common enough to disrupt the expected availability of it for the mod until you hit the lategame where you can scan and caravan for it.

Hi, many people are playing with Combat Extended, I know how hard is patching mod to make it work with CE. Instead I beg You to make an option in mod's settings, allowing to disable spawning with raiders and crafting mod's weapons (also stun stick and mortar shells could be enabled/disabled individually) This is really important for everybody playing with CE. Thank You!