Darkest Dungeon®

Darkest Dungeon®

The Sunward Isles (New Dungeon)
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Seal  [developer] Jun 16, 2019 @ 3:15pm
Balance Discussions
This discussion is for talking about balance. The SI team is planning to take a much closer look at balance, specifically the stuff that's excessively punishing or annoying. The latest patch at the time of writing this should give a better idea of changes we're looking to make.

Don't worry about tagging spoilers for discussing boss balance.
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Showing 1-15 of 37 comments
Zliden Jun 30, 2019 @ 12:36am 
How much of CRT parameter monsters have? Asking because I lost my tank on champion difficulty within 5 rooms because of 6 crits in a row were landed on him
Seal  [developer] Jun 30, 2019 @ 9:14am 
Sounds like really bad luck.
You can view monster CRT bases and scalings in the guide though:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bn37Spts5z0_gtHg2dQ19CmHkhaWFx4ASUPALTL9wvc/edit?usp=sharing
Last edited by Seal; Jun 30, 2019 @ 9:15am
Lucas Edwards Jun 30, 2019 @ 10:58am 
The yokai that burrows into the earth to heal up has got to be the greatest offender when it comes to being annoying. I had several missions where I was up against a full roster of them twice in a row. My team was unable to hit them fast enough before they burrowed and healed, only to land a crit and kill off my best shieldbreaker.

I suggest that you either lower their really high dodge buff when they are burrowed, so that I still have a chance to hit them before they heal back to full, or lower their overall health so that they can be killed more easily.
As they are a head in the ground, maybe the first round the dodge is really high, representing the idea that they just dug into the earth and vanished from view, while later rounds the dodge buff is lower because the party realizes its a head in the ground and give it a nice hard kick.

Also, minor gripe, not so much gameplay issue though. The music is terribly loud, so much so that it covers up any narration or sound effects, while other areas aren't nearly as oppressive when it comes to the music.

I really like this mod though, it is quite accurate and I actually would look up a few of the monsters to see what sort of weaknesses they may have or what they might have to throw at me, not to mention the fact the trinkets are fantastic.
Himejoshi Miku Jun 30, 2019 @ 5:49pm 
I intended the following message to be posted to comments so expect it to read as such (was too long to be posted there).

I'm gonna echo what other people have been saying: This dungeon is noticeably harder than any other dungeon. Not just that, it's harder in ways that are very frustrating. Party-wide riposte buffs that you can't really play around, dodge buffs that are intended to make enemies outright untouchable; game design that makes your fate feel slave to RNG. There are times an enemy uses a move and I think to myself "Oh thank god they used that instead of their OP move." Because in my heart, I know that if the Oni just used Brute Force every turn, it would kill anything that isn't a tank. That sort of hope and prayer doesn't happen nearly as much in the base game.

You'd think after reading my complaints/feedback, that I don't like the mod. Nothing could be further from the truth. You can feel hard work and dedication oozing out of every inch of this mod. If not for a select few Curio interactions that feel weird, this mod is professional level. The animations, the music, the atmosphere, it all flows into the game perfectly. Nothing feels out of place, nothing feels forced. It feels like an entirely new DLC, straight from Red Hook. It's that good. If you're looking to add mods to your base game, this one is beyond a must; it's a given. I think with some very minor nerfing and house cleaning, this mod would be perfect. Seriously, great job to the creators. I hope you're going to make something for Darkest 2.

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Now let me extrapolate on specific complaints here in the discussion section.

1. High Damage. Upon my latest play through, Oni and Shark dudes (whose names escape me) are capable of doing about half of virtually anyone's healthpool (in a level 3-4 dungeon). Now if you want to do that, that's fine, but ensure there's plenty of room to play around it. Compare it for example to the giants you encounter in the Weald later in the game. Similarly, they can do absurd amounts of damage, but at the cost of being slow and needing someone to mark their target. They often miss as well. These two enemies are very common, nor are they particularly fast or slow. You may want to add a feature that prevents them from performing these attacks twice in a row, to make them a little easier to play around. That's just a suggestion, there's a million ways to do it, but suffice to say you can have a big damage dealer, but it needs to come at expenses or not be so prevalent.

2. Bonkers Buffs. So one thing that's important in the game (or really any game) is room to play around stuff. Take the Bone Courtiers and Cultist Witches. Known for dumping stress onto your party, you can typically kill them in one or two turns and stave off the stress. You still take damage, but you can tone it down or abate the damage in some way. Compare that to say, the Turtles with the hammer. Every time I see one, I hope beyond hope that after one of my party marks it, the second one to follow up kills it. I'm essentially pigeon holed into doing this on account of the Riposte buff is far too strong once it's cast. I see two options in this specific circumstance; either reduce the PROT on the Turtle with other behavioral changes so that its function is similar to a Thrall in the Coves (can be killed but offers huge buffs if it does not die). Or reduce the power of the Riposte buff to a single cast.

In the same vein, the dodge buff granted to the burrowing dudes (again sorry the name escapes me) brings nothing to the table. It becomes unhittable and that is that. I have no other choices when it does this. I can only wait. That really isn't conducive to fun play. There's no playing around it, no interaction, no nothing. If you like the concept of these guys burrowing and attacking from there (I also like the concept), I'd suggest making the dodge buff into the realm of 25-30. Combined with its base dodge, it'd still be hard to hit, but not impossible. You can also change it to a straight up PROT buff instead. Functionally, it will be similar.

3. Boss map functions. Personally, I hate the slowly-revealing map. I hate it in the base game too lol. It doesn't fit with the feel of the game at all, and I would rather it be canned. Not much else to say here. I just despise that function.
Nico Jul 14, 2019 @ 4:41pm 
I'm pretty much in agreement here when I say that the enemies deal WAY too much damage for their own good, to be honest.
LinkFan001 Jul 21, 2019 @ 9:54pm 
How as nobody mentioned the dog boss in vet difficulty that can stun lock your team if you get unlucky on the attack rolls? No boss in the base game besides the Countess (a Darkest Dungeon level enemy) and the Flesh (If you are unlucky) that have the ability to attack multiple times and stun you while doing so. And to make them immune to DOT, one of the only effective answers to mutli-attack enemies on top of it? You can have them stun, or be immune to all DOTs, or attack 4 times a turn, but for all that is good in the world, please not all 3.

I like this mod, the flavor and care that was put into it is DLC worthy... and yet I have to agree with the criticism that most fights feel less about how well can you manage a situation and more like "Please don't use that one attack that is insane..."
Last edited by LinkFan001; Jul 22, 2019 @ 10:36am
Mmaster116 Jul 27, 2019 @ 4:00pm 
Originally posted by A Slightly Startled Seal:
Sounds like really bad luck.
You can view monster CRT bases and scalings in the guide though:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bn37Spts5z0_gtHg2dQ19CmHkhaWFx4ASUPALTL9wvc/edit?usp=sharing

Enemies deal way too much damage, lets go to the Oni on champion difficulty:
45 HP

(Brute Force)
12-17 damage
95.75% accuracy
21% crit chance

130% stun resist
4 SPD

Every one in five attacks will be a critical in theory.

Compared to the uncommon enemy named Corrupted Giant:
144 HP

(Treebranch Smackdown)
20-40 damage
97.5% accuracy
15% crit chance

Every one in six attacks will be a critical in theory.

95% stun resist
2 SPD

You can mitigate the Corrupted Giant's attacks by stunning it consistently every 3rd round when the stun resist buff runs out and generally you will go first because it only has 2 SPD.

There has to be ways to mitigate what enemies can do to your party, a huge underlying issue that this mod has, is that enemies are allowed to do too much, all enemies have 3-4 usable attacks while nearly every enemy in the vanilla game has 2-3 attacks that are dependant on where they are placed and deal damage that you can swing back from, where you can control things if you know what you're doing (Outside of having enemies crit a whole bunch of times on your party members) and you reasonably aren't running through all your supplies because all enemies with DOTs have 140-160% chance to apply it.
necomancer01 Aug 18, 2019 @ 5:53pm 
I've played alot of boss and mini-boss mods and I have to say the umibozu is pretty badly designed mechanically. Its right there with that mod that'd spawn a mini-boss multiple times per dungeon and sometimes as the first encounter.

Its just not fun having to rely so heavily on RNG to survive. As it was I had too many rounds were I was either convinced I was going to lose someone (and sometimes did) and too many rounds were I literally couldn't do anything. At least twice the boss targeted the same character two times, at the start of the battle, with 'Just a touch' and if it wasn't for my man at arms defending them they'd have died. The only reason my Man At Arms didn't die was due to over powered trinkets from other mods that raised his proc to far above 50 most of the time.

If I'm having to rely on custom classes (and I did) and over powered trinkets from other mods I think theres a problem. While I get that getting screwed over by RNG in this game is a thing, its not suppose to be something you constantly cross your fingers and hope for the best for. Maybe theres a very simple way to beat this battle without any modded characters but about the only thing I can think of is dodge cheese. You can't rely on Death's Door resistance. I lost a thrall who had +45% to Death's Door resistance. Thats just crossing your fingers and hoping RNG is going to be kind. Its not.
Last edited by necomancer01; Aug 18, 2019 @ 6:01pm
Nico Sep 7, 2019 @ 12:06pm 
I went back to an earlier save that had this dungeon installed, and I nearly got wiped by one of the Champion Bosses.

Seriously, this balancing needs a major fix.
Uncle Dandy Oct 24, 2019 @ 2:02am 
Other than the resistances (blight, bleed, and stun particularly) feeling a little high across the board for monsters in this area I quite like the overall level of difficulty in the isles. A challenging area is nice to have to test yourself against when the base areas stop offering as much of a challenge.
Furin Nov 19, 2019 @ 2:59pm 
It might be too good, but I really wish I could stack the big charms to 4 aswell, or at least 2.
Seal  [developer] Nov 19, 2019 @ 4:55pm 
@Furin, Iirc there's another third-party mod that increases the stack limit of omamoris. The major ones, at least after you get the Ancestor's Shrine District, are really strong. Hence my reasoning for the 1-stack limit.

@Pretty much everyone else, There's been multiple balance changes to SI over the course of the last several months. I apologize for not responding to every comment, but I've taken a bunch of your suggestions. SI balance will probably never be perfect, but I'm happy with where it is atm. Thank you for your responses.
guilherme.gigeck Nov 23, 2019 @ 10:28am 
Umibozu it is a fun idea that doesn't work at all. The fact that I need the boss to cooperate with me to apply my strategy and if he doesn't overtime I die from heart-attacks it is simply not fun at all. If I am forced to wait and luck out to take mindless risk that I didn't want and nowhere in the game I'm forced to take such risk with permanent consequences then you designed a boss for another game. If the heros lost on that fight would come back like they do on Endless Farmstead then it all would be fine.
RamboTurkey Jan 7, 2020 @ 10:00pm 
in my opinion retaliating rythym needs to be a buff to a single monster not the whole group, also those yokai should not be burowing before the blight kills them
Last edited by RamboTurkey; Jan 8, 2020 @ 5:03pm
DeepOneBill Jan 27, 2020 @ 7:50am 
Taira's blessing disappeared after the associated mission was completed.
I'm not sure if this is intentional, since it is very similar to items that do persist with the in-game inventory.
Is it possible that this be replaced with a one-per-roster trait given as part of the mission, then making the boss fight repeatable to allow the item to be re-acquired?
I would suggest at least signposting that the item disappears after the mission.
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