I actually thought that was already the case. xD Our games always ended when someone died. I even tested this once in hotseat mode. I converted everyone to legion and the game didn't end immediately. Someone had to die first. But I tested it only one time with legion, maybe it was different then, because they count as outlaws.

Anyways, I like the newer method, because like you said, it's according to the rules. Even if all know about each other being humans, someone could suddenly draw a loyality program and lead the machines to win. :) I like the game for its plot twists!

I tested the update in hotseat mode and have some feedback:

- It never happened before, but RNG gave me 4 outlaws. xD When I started the game, FFA mode was immediately initiated. I think the check for this should happen after first death if I'm right.

- After clicking on the start button, I made everyone human to test the new win condition check. That worked well, but when I killed someone, although the check was made (chat telling me the 3 players left were humans), the game didn't end. I had to kill a second human before the script ended it. Maybe I broke the script because I just changed cards after starting the round, so take this one with a grain of salt. xD RNG would be a beast, if a round starts with humans only. ^^

I was just gonna talk to you about this! I believe it would be best to keep it as it is BUT put somewhere that if there is all of X slide someone to the side and kill them for the victory. Me and my friends spent 10 minutes trying to figure out who lied to someone. When we tried killing one of us and saw that

Its a great game and a great script. I was just surprised. Glad to know this was being discussed regardless!

Heyho, it's me again. :) I gonna write this suggestion in this thread since it has to do with the win condition script.

We encountered a seldom situation on our last game. There were 3 Players left: A (Human), B (Machine) and C (Outlaw). B played the sharing-DMG program with A as target. So there was the situation,that B and A killed each other at the same time.

Now the script does the win-check immediately after a player turns all his cards. In our game player C would win, because A and B got killed. But A as human turned his cards first, so the script said that the machines won. That situation occurs also, when a player wants to use the revive-program. Normally you need to play sleeper after the elimination (you can't revive yourself when you aren't dead), but it's not possible, because of the win check the script does. Not a very big issue, we can house rule to play it before the elimination (I'm just not a fan of house rules because they can be illogical and are mostly not intended by the author)

IMHO it would be better, if we (as already experienced HP-players) could start the win check manually. :) (a button or something)

Thanks BuzZoiD for your feedback :), I appreciate it. I apologize for not replying sooner, I was away. However, I am back now.

Interesting scenario you came across; you're absolutely right, the script will check immediately upon a player's death so both people dying at the same time it would do the win conditions for ever rotates their cards first. A possible work-around for this would be to add a short delay before checking win conditions in case multiple people died at once. Something I will take a look at.

You also mention the Sleeper scenario. It is actually intentional that Sleeper cannot be used before a win condition is met. For example, if there were 3 machines and 1 human with Sleeper program and the machines kill the human, the human cannot play Sleeper after dying as the game is suppose to be over. This is how the game is meant to be played (Sleeper can still be used as per usual, but it can't prevent a win condition from happening). Think of it this way, if the player dies, for a least a split second they are considered dead/eliminated - this would mean "if all humans are eliminated, machines win" would be true in this instance. Now if there was a program that would prevent death/keep the player alive (not be eliminated at all) that would be a different story but Sleeper is meant to be used on a player that is already eliminated. I believe this exact question is already in the F.A.Qs as well.

Regardless, I still I like the idea of "advanced options" to tweak script mechanics. Some food for thought for sure!

Thanks again!

The delay sounds interesting. That could work in case two people die at the same time. :)

About the sleeper program: While you are technically right about everything, the author still answered a specific question about this in the FAQ on the boardgamegeek forums.

The question was:

If you are eliminated, are the last human, but have a sleeper program to reanimate you, can you use that before win conditions are checked? Can you do it after, even though the machines technically should already have won?

Stefan Godot's answer:

You can do it before the check, after the check it is already too late for Humans and the Machines won.

But yeah.. it's a detail and maybe we shouldn't discuss about a minor thing. :) It's also more time consuming, if you turn all your cards, play the program, then turn your cards again instead of just play it and reveal all your cards.

While I'm writing: I think that locking cards is a bit too much. I know we are able to !forceunlock it but I wanted to mention this, because we had to unlock it a lot already. (for example one player had the ID to inspect the program cards the other players are drawing. He could choose to discard or approve their programs. Player often draw faster than the player with the ID can react and then we need to unlock it so the program can be inspected).

I don't know what kind of situations you already have experienced. I mostly play with real life friends, so I don't encounter players who would just take a card from the others. ^^'

Ah ok, I read something too from Stefan on boardgamegeek, I can't find it right now but I know he has contradicted himself a few times on the forums; which btw I don't blame him, English is not his native language so there may be some language barriers.

As for the cards being locked, I play with random people every time and I noticed either new players were discarding loyalty programs when they weren't suppose to or seasoned players were purposely discarding them (cheating). We wouldn't know any better because discard is face down. Same thing with on your turn programs, I frequently see people trying to play on your turn programs when it is not their turn.

But anyway I have resolved both your requests in the newest update! You can now choose to completely disable card locks and have manual win condition checks. Fair-warning, I rushed the update out before the holidays and have not tested it as much as I should have. Let me know if there are any issues.

-Savage

You are right. I mean it's your mod after all and you have the choice about everything. :) I just offer suggestions. To be fair my english isn't my native language either so I could be mistaken with some things too.

I'm sure it's another experience with randoms and I could imagine that you encountered problems there. And then locked cards are a good thing. I think you made a very good choice with the options menu. So the hosts can now set it up as they like. :)

Thanks for your hard work and taking the time to read my posts! I'll let you know when we encounter problems in our playthroughs. But for now: Merry X-Mas and a happy new year! :)

I think we found a weird edge case error in the FFA win condition checks last night. We were messing around with Legion, and 5 of the 6 players had been converted. The remaining player, as a Machine, shot and killed me for the first death. This triggered the FFA mode. One of the Legion then shot and killed another Legion while trying to find the outlier. This kill ended the game, declaring a machine victory since someone died and no humans were left. However, according to the rulebook FFA mode should effectively make all players that aren't Legion Outlaws permanently, for win condition checks; FFA mode once activated remains in effect regardless of further loyalty changes.

I don't know if you're interested in doing more updates on the mod, but figured I'd pass along just in case. This is a great game but every other session we run into a weird edge case, whether in person or on TTS. In any case, thank you for the mod!