Hi i'd like to know how well this mod is balanced vs vanilla weapons in terms of weapon value.
For example will comparably priced vanilla/extended weapons perform alright vs weapons from this mod?

huh, weird, didnt get a notification for this one, apologies for the delayed response

possibly not very well balanced when it comes to value, when i play i rarely trade, they used to have a much higher value, but it was causing serious wealth overloads, meaning raids and such were Far stronger than they should have been

any thoughts on improving it would be appreciated

It sounds like a tough problem to solve. What about making the value of the wh40 faction pawns higher so that even if wealth skyrockets, raids by those factions would remain of consistant size? Just a guess. Sorry i'm not much of a modder

If Spacer tech can create bionic super soldiers then Glitter tech is likely at least as advanced as current 40K tech. After all, 40K auto and stub weapons are essentially modern day equivalents even if they could be argued to have higher calibers, fire rates and/or accuracies.

That said, I have been wondering about balance based on 7th Ed TT rules, especially in regards to the AP system. If AP1 is supposed to be full armor penetration what does that mean in Rimworld? What armor is it being compared to?

If Cataphract/Terminator then 20 AP per point would be 120 at AP1, which would completely penetrate Rimworld's Normal quality Cat Armor. If it's Marine then 18 per point would be 108 and would ignore Norm qual Marine armor, while Term would have a 6% chance to deflect/mitigate.

If assuming 100 AP is full penetration then 17 AP per point would be 102 at AP1, which would ignore Recon Armor, give Marine a 2% chance to deflect/mitigate and Term a 9% chance. Using this system, Legendary Term Armor would have a 24% chance to deflect/mitigate a Legend Meltagun.

If assuming Carapace/Recon/Scout Marine Armor, which is the highest level of human/lowest level of Astartes Armor should have at least some protection against the highest AP weapon, then 15 AP per point would give a Melta 90 AP. Against this, Scout Armor would have a 1% chance to deflect/mitigate, Marine would have an 8% chance and Term would have a 15% chance. Using this system, Legend Term Armor would have a 33% chance to deflect/mitigate a Legend Melta.

As for the overall weapon balance, if the dps of the weapons is too high then Terminator Armor becomes more like Scout or Flak Armor and your own characters run the risk of being wiped out in a single raid.

With that said, I think a good damage per hit for each weapon is as follows:
S 1: 4
S 2: 10
S 3: 17
S 4: 26
S 5: 36
S 6: 48
S 7: 61
S 8: 76
S 9: 92
S10: 110

Most people assume that a S/T3 Guardsman is an average human but I say they are a human that has undergone strength, endurance, ranged and melee training to improve their Strength, Toughness, Ballistic and Weapon Skill above average, meaning an average human would be S/T2. A normal human should be able to gouge out an eye(10 HP) so S2 must be at least 10, making each point of S 5 damage.

For each point of S above/below T you +/- 10% damage. If S if at least 2x or at most 1/2 of T the bonus/penalty is increased by 50%.

I.E. S1 is 1 less than and at most half of T2 so 5 - 15% = 4.25 = 4 damage.
S4 is 2 more and at least twice T2 so 20 + 30% = 26 damage.

With this system, even a mitigated Bolt will completely destroy a brain, while mitigated Plasma shots can destroy everything but a torso in a single shot. S9 and 10 will destroy any body part regardless of if they're mitigated or not.

@Tanthulas
Cor blimey! youve obviously put a fair bit of thought into this, im sorry to say that as ive only played 3rd-5th edition, so thats what ive been using as a baseline

re the Tech levels, given that in rim its only year 3000 something iirc, im fairly sure theres nae chance they could be as advanced given the 37,000 year difference, in fact in my mind at least the Imperium has likely forgotten more than the entire human race has ever learned in Rim, but thats just my personal take on it

not sure if the armour system was changed in 6th\7th, but Carapce/scout marine armour is only a 4+ save, so things like plasma, melta's etc ignore it totally.

i had originally tried a similar sort of system for the damages, but because i didnt want all the burst sizes to be the same(kinda boring if everything fires in 3 round bursts), i was working it out between all shots in the burst, though alot of small tweaks and edits have happened since then.

just to clarify

"
If Cataphract/Terminator then 20 AP per point would be 120 at AP1, which would completely penetrate Rimworld's Normal quality Cat Armor.
"
20 ap per point, you mean Rimworlds AP set to 0.2 per point of AP in the codex?

The Rimworld Empire has Power Sword(Monosword), Thunder Hammer(Zeus Hammer), Scout(Recon), Marine and Terminator(Cataphract) Armor equivalents in the 6th millennium, which didn't show up in the 40K universe until the 30th millennium. Spacer tech can create bionic super soldiers(Thunder Warriors?) so Glitter tech can likely make Astartes equivalents, while the Spacer tech Charge Rifle is similar in comparison to the Assault Rifle to what the Bolter is in comparison to the Autogun. The presence of Archotech indicates an Age of Strife has already occurred.

Considering Rimworld is obviously based on the WH40K Imperial setting, it is clear that the RW Empire is at least on par with the Imperium of Man, regardless of what year it is.


If going directly stat-wise from the TT to Rimworld then AP2 weapons should ignore Terminator Armor, meaning in Rimworld each point of AP would have to be at least 27% so that AP2 is at least 200% AP at Legendary Quality.

With this system, Legend Term Armor would be ignored by Legend Plasma and Melta weapons and have a 59.5% chance to deflect/mitigate a Legend Bolter and a 39% chance vs a Legend Heavy Bolter.
Normal quality Term Armor would be ignored by norm Plasma/Melta and have a 33% chance to d/m a Bolt and a 19.5% chance vs a HB.
Marine Armor would be a 26% d/m chance vs Bolt and 12.5% vs HB.
Scout Armor would be a 19% d/m chance vs Bolt and 5.5% vs HB.

For comparison, vanilla Legend Term Armor has a 73.5% to d/m a Legend Charge Rifle, norm Term has a 42.5% chance vs norm CR, norm Marine has 35.5% chance and norm Scout has 28.5% chance.


Not only would all weapons with the same burst sizes be boring but it would be wrong. An Assault Cannon should fire more shots than a Heavy Bolter, which should fire more shots than an Autogun, which should fire more shots than a Storm Bolter, which should fire more shots than a Bolter, which should fire more shots than a Stalker Bolter, which should fire more shots than a Plasma Gun.

I.E.
Assault Cannon: 16 shots at 0.1-sec per shot for a 1.5-sec barrage.
Heavy Bolter: 6 shots at 0.2-sec per shot for a 1-sec barrage.
Autogun: 5 shots at 0.15-sec per shot for a 0.6-sec barrage.
Storm Bolter: 4 shots at 0.2-sec per shot for a 0.6-sec barrage.
Bolter: 3 shots at 0.25-sec per shot for a 0.5-sec barrage.
Stalker Bolter: 2 shots at 0.3-sec per shot for a 0.3-sec barrage.
Plasma Gun: 1 shot per barrage.

Then Warm-Up and Cool-Down times would need to be applied but what would be the base? The Bolter? What modifiers apply to other weapons?
I.E. One-Handed(Pistols) -0.5-sec WU
Specialist Weapon(Storm/Stalker/Plasma) +0.5-sec WU
Heavy Weapon(HB, Autocannon) +0.5-sec WU +0.5-sec CD
Super Heavy?(Assault Cannon/Lascannon) +1-sec WU +1-sec CD


Exactly. So a Bolter would be 0.4, HB 0.6, Plasma 1, Melta 1.2 on the Rimworld scale.

In vanilla RW, against no AP the Normal Cataphract Armor provides 7% more deflect/mitigate chance than norm Marine, which provides 7% more d/m than norm Recon. At Legendary quality the Recon Armor provides 12.6% less d/m than Legend Marine, which provides only 4.6% less than Legend Cat due to the Cat Armor wasting 16 points of Armor(Legend Cat is technically 216 but is capped at 200). This means, at norm qual Marine provides less than 16% more total protection than Recon and Cat provides less than 12% more total protection than Marine, while at Legend qual Marine provides less than 16% more protection than Recon and Cat provides less than 5% more protection than Marine.

If the Armor and AP system for RW was completely redone it could be set up as:
6+ Save = 25 Armor = 12.5% d/m vs AP-
5+ Save = 50 Armor = 25% d/m vs AP-
4+ Save = 75 Armor = 37.5% d/m vs AP-
3+ Save = 100 Armor = 50% d/m vs AP-
2+ Save = 125 Armor = 62.5% d/m vs AP-

If Armor is improved by 60% at Legendary the saves would be:
6+ = 40 Armor = 20% d/m
5+ = 80 Armor = 40% d/m
4+ = 120 Armor = 60% d/m
3+ = 160 Armor = 80% d/m
2+ = 200 Armor = 100% d/m

With the above system, 2+ would be 25% better than 3+, which would be 33% better than 4+, which would be 50% better than 5+, which would be 100% better than 6+.

If AP matches Armor then each level of AP beats equivalent or lower armor(I.E. Plasma/Melta ignore all armor); however, there are differences between turn-based and real-time games to take into account.

For example, in TT even unique characters like Eldrad Ulthran can be used every single game even if they get killed/Wounded every single game because they always come with their skills and abilities; however, in RW it takes time to train and enhance your colonists to Astartes levels so having weapons that can ignore their strongest armors and one-shot them is probably not a good idea.

So, if Armor went by 25s then AP could go by 20s to show that at least some energy is used to penetrate the armor.

With AP at 20 and Armor at 25 the lowest save for each Armor would be:
6+ = 2.5% d/m vs AP6
5+ = 5% d/m vs AP5
4+ = 7.5% d/m vs AP4
3+ = 10% d/m vs AP3
2+ = 2.5% d/m vs AP1

At Legendary Qualities the AP could be increased just by 25% to the Armor's 60% so that saves would be:
6+ = 7.5% d/m vs AP6
5+ = 2.5% d/m vs AP4
4+ = 10% d/m vs AP3
3+ = 5% d/m vs AP1
2+ = 25% d/m vs AP1

I personally like the on-paper look of this system as the Legend Marine and Cataphract Armor having some saves against AP1 is like them having an Invuln Save from a built-in Iron Halo or something, while the 1-in-40 save of Normal Cat against AP1 represents its sheer durability as Terminators are said to be able to take shots that can destroy tanks.

apologies for the delayed reply, as i said before, youve obviously put alot of thought into this and i didnt wanna just dismiss it with a short comment.

i hadnt really thought much about comparing the techs in vanilla to that in 40k before, having thought about it some. its kinda tricky to say definitively what the equivilent level is, in some areas they seem to match or even outdo some 40k tech(Ressurector Serum?), but in other areas they are behind(no FTL travel), .

i can understand why your equating the power/marine armour and cataphract armour to Power Armour and Terminator Armour, However my Astartes mod(which is nearing release) contains its own Power armour, which might be as potent as phract armour or more so(i've yet to look at its stats, not having had time to actually Play rim in quite awhile), and will also (assuming i can ever get textures done for them) include Terminator armour.

Re AP/AV values:
the current AP values were originally worked out under the (very wrong)assumption that AP 1 or 100% would ignore All armour. You make some interesting points regarding the overall lethality of a direct translation from TT, though my only worry about your system is that other mod added armours might have Far higher AV's, and some weapons(Snipers, Melta weapons, force weapons, wraithcannons etc) Should be able to oneshot things, though they should also be rare and not easy to make

Re Invun saves:
as ive already implemented iron halos using the vanillia shield mechanics, i was planning to do the same for terminators inbuilt one, though to be honest it was when i first started modding and didnt really know anything, i personally prefer the idea of it being a chance based deflection for the invunerable saves, like ive given the Chaos deamons

while the monosword is similar to a power weapon, its less potent (only 0.9/90% AP), i would say the Zeus hammer(it doesnt have a definied AP value in its stats, it just does added EMP damage and EMP damage doesnt harm non mechanoids iirc) is more akin to a haywire melee weapon than a thunder hammer.

i would equate the charge rifle at most to a lasgun, with the vanillia assault rifle being a Stub-gun or low grade Autogun

Re Warmup/CD times:
my rule of thumb so far has been using the weapons TT type as a base, Assault and Pistol being the fastest, then rapid fire, then Heavy(Heavy also has additional warmup time if they have recently moved), i do like the idea of then adding a an extra modifier based on the weapon type, but theres also the special effects of rapid fire, though i might change that to half the warmup and CD when firing at targets within half range instead of doubling the burst count(id also like to intergrate this with Run N Gun, so that when moving it restricted rapid fire weapons to firing once at half range while moving)

Re Burst Size/Damage
these fields are ones ive tried a few different things to balance, because when i started this mod it was only an addon for Astra Militarum, i matched my bolter to the Astra ones 30 dmg per shot 3 shot burst which ends up as 90 dmg per burst going off that as S4 gives a 27.5 Potential Burst Damage

(S x Base) x Shots on TT profile = Potential Burst Damage
Potential Burst Damage / Burst Size = Bullet Damage

while i havent always stuck to this(sometimes i make changes to the bullet count and forget to modify damage, etc), it allows me to play about with the burst size to try and make things feel a little more different(eg Eldar shuriken and orky weapons tend to have lower damage per bullet but higher burst sizes)

dont forget the storm bolter fires 2 rounds per burst shot, so it already has double the damage potential of a standard bolter

i do think that i will likely go through and try to rebalance some stuff for the next release, just a matter of time atm, fecking AvP mod keeps me busy

and again, thank you for providing Useful and constructive feedback its given me food for thought and is appreciated :)

If other modded armors have higher Armor values then they just have to be readjusted to be balanced. 200 Armor is the cap for RW so the most powerful Armor in the game should have 200 Armor at Legendary Quality. Currently Legendary Quality improves Armor by 80% so anything over 111.1 Armor at Normal Quality is wasting stat points. Vanilla Cat is 120 so wastes 16 armor at Legend qual.

The system I have currently worked out is as follows:
VS AP-
6+ = 25 Armor for 12.5% deflect/mitigate chance
5+ = 50 Armor for 25% d/m
4+ = 75 Armor for 37.5% d/m
3+ = 100 Armor for 50% d/m
2+ = 125 Armor for 62.5% d/m

At Legendary Quality with only a 60% increase the saves would be:
6+ = 40 Armor for 20% d/m
5+ = 80 Armor for 40% d/m
4+ = 120 Armor for 60% d/m
3+ = 160 Armor for 80% d/m
2+ = 200 Armor for 100% d/m

Things like a Flak Vest(6+) or Plated Vest(5+) could be bumped up a save to account for not covering the limbs so a fully Flaked Guardsman would have 25 head/limb Armor and 50 chest, while a Guardsman in 'Plated-Flak' Armor would have 50 head/limb Armor and 75 chest. Give them Carapace and its 75 all around.

40K Armors could have equivalent levels of Sharp, Blunt and Heat Armor so that something like Plate Armor could still be given at least 75 Sharp Armor in return for less or no Blunt and Heat Armor.

I like the idea of penetration not being perfect so gave it only 20 per point, which gives armors at least a minor save against weapons they normally wouldn't have.
6+ vs AP6 = 2.5% d/m
5+ vs AP5 = 5% d/m
4+ vs AP4 = 7.5% d/m
3+ vs AP3 = 10% d/m
2+ vs AP2 = 12.5% d/m
2+ vs AP1 = 2.5% d/m

Going with the idea that most improvements to 40K weapons are going to be durability and/or accuracy increases(due to not properly understanding the tech or in cases like Eldar/Necrons it's already incredibly advanced) I only gave increased damage/AP at Masterwork(+5%) and Legendary(+10%) Qualities.
Legendary Armor Saves
6+ vs AP6 = 9% d/m
5+ vs AP4 = 7% d/m
4+ vs AP2 = 5% d/m
3+ vs AP1 = 14% d/m
2+ vs AP1 = 34% d/m

With my damage system even a mitigated Bolt will completely destroy the brain and an unmitigated shot will leave an arm/leg/head with only 13% hp. Stalker or Heavy Bolter can destroy a head unmitigated. Plasma weapons can destroy a head even if mitigated and can destroy torsos unmitigated. S9 and 10 weapons can destroy the torso even if mitigated so at vanilla hp values a Lascannon can kill pawns in a single shot.


Iron Halos are supposed to be rare relics given only to elite Astartes so I believe the best way to implement them is indirectly with proper Armor vs AP balance such as higher quality Power Armors having saves against Plasma and Melta weapons.

Combat/Storm Shields would be a better fit for an equippable Invuln Save, especially if they could be made to protect only the forward 120 or 180 degree arc of the pawn using them. These are more common than Iron Halos and most people likely won't even realize the Iron Halo exists or understand its importance so they're far less likely to be scavenged and equipped by non-Astartes then Shields are. Astartes wielding any of the above are unlikely to die so the Shields should be very rare amongst the Rimworld populace with Iron Halos only being built-in to higher quality armors.

Shields could act as an additional layer of Armor so a Legendary Terminator equipped with a Legendary Storm Shield would have a 14% and a 34% chance to deflect/mitigate a Legendary AP1 weapon. The Storm Shield could protect everything except the head, while the Combat Shield could also leave the legs exposed.


The Autogun and Lasgun have the same Range, Firing Type, Strength and AP. If the Assault Rifle and an Autogun were similar then the Charge Rifle would be more akin to a Hotshot Lasgun with a bit more Range but less AP. As it is, I'm designing the 40K weapons to be a full tier above Spacer tech so my Autogun out-damages the vanilla Charge Rifle even against Cat Armor at Normal Quality. I like your idea of integrating the Hotshot into the Lasgun itself as an alternate firing mode as the Auto/Lasguns can be given statistically identical normal firing modes with the Lasgun having the alt to work against armored targets.


Warm-Up/Cooldown
I found it easier to mark one weapon as the default(Bolter) and begin balancing everything else around it. I gave the Bolter higher damage per shot and a higher fire rate than the Charge Rifle, while also making sure it out-damages the highest DPS weapon(chain shotgun) in the game at all ranges.
From there I've currently got:
Pistols: -0.5-sec Warm-Up, -0.5-sec Cool-Down
Small Arms(I.E. Auto/Lasgun/Shuricat): -0.5-sec CD
Specialist(I.E. Storm/Stalker Bolter/Plasma/Melta): +0.5-sec WU
Heavy Weapons(I.E. HB, HStubber): +0.5-sec WU, +0.5-sec CD
Super Heavy(I.E. Assault Cannon): +1-sec WU, +1-sec CD

Here are my current Bolt weapon designs.
Bolter: 1-sec WU, 0.5-sec Burst, 1.5-sec CD, 3 Shots, 26 DPS, 36 Range
Close: 11.7 (45% acc)
Short: 14.3 (55%)
Medium: 13 (50%)
Long: 10.4 (40%)

Bolt Pistol: 0.5-sec WU, 0.2-sec Burst, 1-sec CD, 2 Shots, 30.59 DPS, 18 Range
Close: 16.83 (55%)
Short: 15.3 (50%)
Medium: 12.24 (40%)
Long: 7.65 (25%)

Dual BP: 1-sec WU, 0.6-sec Burst, 1-sec CD, 4 Shots, 40 DPS, 18 Range
Close: 20 (50%)
Short: 18 (45%)
Medium: 12 (30%)
Long: 6 (15%)

Storm Bolter: 1.5-sec WU, 0.6-sec Burst, 1.5-sec CD, 4 Shots, 28.89 DPS, 36 Range
Close: 17.33 (60%)
Short: 15.89 (55%)
Medium: 13 (45%)
Long: 8.67 (30%)

Stalker Bolter: 1.5-sec WU, 0.3-sec Burst, 1.5-sec CD, 2 Shots, 23.64 DPS, 45 Range
Close: 10.64 (45%)
Short: 13 (55%)
Medium: 11.82 (50%)
Long: 10.64 (45%)

Heavy Bolter: 1.5-sec WU, 1-sec Burst, 2-sec CD, 6 Shots, 48 DPS, 54 Range
Close: 9.6 (20%)
Short: 14.4 (30%)
Medium: 12 (25%)
Long: 9.6 (20%)

The BP and Dual BP are the highest dps in close/short with the Storm in second. The Storm is higher than the Bolter in close/short, about even in mid but is less accurate and is lower DPS at long. Stalker does less dps than the Bolter at all ranges except long and while it doesn't do much more DPS it has more range and more damage per hit. The HB does less unarmored/light armored damage at all ranges except short but it does more armored damage.

As far as the Storm Bolter goes it doesn't make sense for it to fire both barrels at once. A Combi-Bolter is two Bolters strapped together and connected to the same trigger so pulling that trigger should make both Bolters fire at the same time. The Storm Bolter is actually intentionally designed as a double-barreled weapon so should shoot one barrel after another allowing for single shots when necessary to conserve ammo or when taking longer range shots, while still allowing for higher-than-Bolter fire-rates.

Edit: As for things like Rapid Fire/Gets Hot I personally just disable those as they're only necessary in turn-based games. In real-time games you can have different accuracies at different ranges so that you land more shots in close. A weapon that is twice as accurate up close than at long range will land twice as many shots, which is the alternative to shooting twice as much up close.

One reason GW adds more shots up close instead of increasing accuracy is the extra shots can still miss and allow greater variety in combat(one game your squad missed everything and died, next game they annihilated a priority target in a single barrage), while more accurate shots would simply mean more hits and losses for one player. It also allows players to get excited about throwing a bunch of extra dice vs just looking for different numbers on the die thrown.

Using this method in real-time can end up drawing out close-range fights unnecessarily such that it's almost always better to instead engage in melee, while your enemy being able to counter-attack in real-time instead of having to wait their turn means you don't need to give them more chances to survive until they can return fire or charge you in melee. You just need to more accurately put shots on them.

Instead of things like Gets Hot you can design the Plasma Gun so that it does more medium/heavy infantry damage than the Bolter but less light/unarmored infantry damage so it isn't outright better than the Bolter. Slower projectiles also means quicker enemies can more easily avoid Plasma shots than they can Bolts.

I've recently used the bolter but for some reason the pawn shooting the bolter can't hit a moving target, the shot always ends up a tile behind the target. It's been really hard to take down enemies that are charging towards you even if they are running in a straight line.

@Tanthulas
that feeling when the reply youve been writing slowly for the past 10 days gets lost cause your PC restarts overnight..... ugh

i really like the idea of having different armour values for different bodyparts with the armour, however im afraid that(at least as far as im aware) its not possible in rim without making seperate bits of apparel for each part that would have a different AV

Item Quality buffs arent something you can control or influence(at least as far as im aware).

Hah, thats an interesting distinction between a storm and combi bolter, thats actually how i had the storm firing originally.

if invunerable saves where universally handled as an extra armour layer, would they not be pointless for anything with 200% AV?(i'll be the first ot admit im fairly cluess when it comes to how armour actually Works in rim), but also that would mean that AP would affect it, which it shouldnt.

did they change how the Gets Hot rule functions in TT? IIRC its nothing to do with fire rate or accuracy, its just a chance of the weapon exploding when fired. As it is, my Gets Hot implementation is nothing to do with fire rate, it just adds a chance for weapons to overheat/explode when fired.

rapid fire in close range, your reasoning behind it drawing out combat is due to the extended burst time? i enjoy the burst size variety it gives in game, thought i do plan to redo it so that it either cuts the entire cycle time in half(so the number of shots fired per burst would be the same, but they would fire twice as often) Or cut the ticks between shots in half while doubling the shot count.

there were some other points i had but i cant remember them now

I meant apparel with different armor values.
I.E. Flak Shirt(6+) provides 25 Armor to the Torso, Neck and Limbs, Flak Vest(6+) provides 50 Armor instead of just 25 to only the Torso.

Kevlar Shirt(5+) provides 50 Armor to the Torso, Neck and Limbs, Bulletproof Vest(5+) provides 75 Armor to the Torso.

So, a full 'Kevlar' Suit would be 50 Armor all around, adding a BP Vest would provide a layer of 75 Torso Armor. To get 75 all around you would need Carapace Armor, which would better protect your limbs but provide less torso protection against low AP weapons due to being only a single layer.

The Industrial Armors should have less Blunt/Heat Armor than Sharp, while the 40K variants would have equal amounts of all Armor types.
I.E.
Primitive/Wooden Vest gives 50 Sharp, 0 Blunt/Heat Armor
Flak Vest gives 50 Sharp, 25 Blunt/Heat Armor
Imperial Flak Vest gives 50 Sharp/Blunt/Heat Armor


I found a mod(Stronger Quality Scaling) that allows me to change a lot of stats based on Quality; however, the Armor and Insulation modifiers are currently not working so I can only tweak weapons and things like Shield Belts/Smokepops.


Rimworld Armor works by dividing the Armor by 2 to find its chance to deflect and mitigate. 100% Armor has a 50% Deflect and 50% Mitigate chance meaning it essentially reduces incoming damage by 75%. Only half the shots gets through the armor and their damage gets cut in half.

Armor Penetration is subtracted from Armor and that new number is divided by 2.


The purpose of the Invuln Saves would be to get the most powerful armor to 200% at the highest quality. So, Terminator at 200% at Legendary Quality. Under TT conditions Plasma and Melta weapons completely ignore Terminator Armor and the Invuln Save gives it an equal save against both AP values. The way I have my system set up even at Normal Quality the Term gets slight saves against AP 1 and 2, while Legend Term has a 45% save against AP2 and 34% against AP1 so the higher AP weapon still has a purpose.


An alternative system would be to bring weapon AP down further to 15 per point and give Mastercraft a 10% and Legendary a 20% damage/AP increase.

Each level of Normal AP would reduce Normal Armor deflect/mitigate chance by 7.5%
With this system the highest saves would be:
6+ vs AP6 = 5% d/m
5+ vs AP4 = 2.5% d/m
4+ vs AP3 = 7.5% d/m
3+ vs AP1 = 5% d/m
2+ vs AP1 = 17.5% d/m

Legendary AP would reduce d/m chance by 9% per point so top saves would be:
6+ vs AP5 = 2% d/m
5+ vs AP3 = 4% d/m
4+ vs AP1 = 6% d/m
3+ vs AP1 = 26% d/m
2+ vs AP1 = 46% d/m (55% vs AP2)

So, Legendary Terminator Armor with a built-in Iron Halo would have an average 50.5% chance to d/m AP 1 and 2. AP1 would be most effective against Terminators because it would still have a chance to completely bypass the armor. AP2 like the Plasma Gun may seem ineffective against Term as each hit will either be deflect or mitigated but even a mitigated Plasma shot can destroy any body part excluding the torso*.

In TT Terminators have a 66% save vs both AP 1 and 2; however, in TT you have to wait for your opponent to shoot at you and hope you survive before you can return fire or move to engage in melee, while in Rimworld you can fire and/or move when your enemy does so your chance to hurt or kill them means you don't need as much survivability.

Additionally, AP should affect the Save in a real-time setting like Rimworld; otherwise, weapons like Meltas could become completely outclassed by Plasma weaponry against targets with Invuln Saves. In the TT it doesn't matter as much because Meltas are mostly anti-vehicle weapons but there are no vehicles in Rimworld so Meltas need at least some anti-infantry capability.

*If necessary to improve the survivability of Terminators they could be given a permanent effect like "Terminator Honors" that doubles their HP, effectively giving them 2 Wounds. It would then be cool if Terminator Armor could be restricted to those with Honors.


In TT, your opponent has to wait for you to shoot at them before they can counter-attack so when using powerful weapons like Plasma Guns there has to be a drawback. I.E. the weapon exploding and killing your model instead of you getting a guaranteed ignore against the enemy's Armor. In Rimworld, your opponent can move and/or shoot when you do and can use weapons with shorter Warm-Ups/Cooldowns and/or faster projectile speeds to potentially get a lethal shot on you at max range so they have enough time to avoid your incoming Plasma shot if it was even going to hit. While the Bolter deals less damage per shot than a Plasma Gun it fires more shots so is more likely to at least land a shot and deal some damage each time it fires. Even a mitigated Bolt does enough damage to destroy the brain.

That is why I disable the Gets Hot rule(all the TT rules, actually) and am balancing the Plasma Gun so that it doesn't need a turn-based rule to limit it in a real-time game.


Drawing out fights in that you aren't firing more accurately you are just firing more shots, which can still miss. Yes, some fights will end more quickly than others due to RNG and on average fight length would probably be the same but Rapid Fire would allow units to train their Shooting Skill more quickly and potentially unfairly.

Unless Rapid Fire reduces the time between shots, which wouldn't make sense and depending on the burst count of a weapon may not be possible, it would need to reduce Warm-Up and Cooldown by individual weapon instead of with an overall rule.

I.E. My Bolter takes 3-sec to complete a firing cycle. 1-sec WU, 0.5-sec Burst, 1.5-sec CD. To make it 1.5-sec it would need a 60% WU/CD decrease.

My Storm Bolter with a 3.4-sec Firing Cycle has 1.5-sec WU, 0.4-sec Burst, 1.5-sec CD. To become 1.7-sec it would need a 56.66% decrease so couldn't use the same rule as the Bolter.

My Heavy Bolter with a 4.5-sec Firing Cycle has 1.5-sec WU, 1-sec Burst, 2-sec CD. To become 2.25-sec it would need a 64.28% WU/CD decrease.

I gave the Bolter 0.25-sec between each shot because it is realistic to believe an Astartes in Power Armor with Auto-Senses could fire a shot and then not only counter-act their weapon's recoil but line up their next shot in 0.25-seconds, which is average human reaction speed. In the time it would take the average human to realize an Astartes had begun firing the Marine could have already shot two people dead.

The Storm/Heavy Bolter are only 0.2-sec and not faster because even Astartes would have physical limits on how quickly they can fire a shot and move their arm/s to accurately fire another. Bolts like Bolters are sacred items to the Imperium so wastefully spraying shots(or blasting two with every trigger pull even when you may only need one) would certainly be frowned upon and prevented with proper weapon mechanics.

The Storm Bolter's off-set barrels firing one after another would make the gun slightly wiggle in the hands so having a faster-than-Bolter-but-not-significantly-so firing rate makes it easier to control at medium and long ranges. Meanwhile, the Heavy Bolter has more Strength and AP so doesn't need to shoot much faster than the Bolter to deal much more damage.

I've worked on my system more and am no longer against Iron Halos as an equipped item. They should act as a layer of Armor that is somehow immune to AP, starting with 42 Armor at Normal and going to 67 at Legendary. This way a Norm IH would have a 21% chance to deflect and mitigate any attack, while a Leg IH would have a 33.5% chance. Having it act as an Armor layer instead of a Shield allows it to always be active instead of potentially being depleted by weak attacks and leaving you vulnerable to more powerful ones.


There should be some sort of ritual/event that allows a pawn to become an Imperial Citizen, at the very least increasing HP by 50%. Astartes would get 100% more base HP giving their Brain 20 HP.

With each point of AP being 15, if Legend quality improves damage/AP by 33.4% then Legend AP is 20, which gives Legend Marine Armor a 30% deflect/mitigate chance vs AP2 and Term a 50% d/m chance. An Astartes with Legendary Terminator Armor, Iron Halo and Storm Shield would have one 50% and two 33.5% d/m chances against a Legendary Plasma Gun.

A S7 Plasma bolt with 33.4% more damage would do 81 damage per shot, allowing a Plasma bolt that was mitigated by both an Iron Halo and Armor to destroy an Astartes' brain, which only has a 0.576% chance of being hit if my math is right. All other vital organs could be destroyed in 1 hit if the Plasma bolt was only mitigated once, while limbs would take about 66.7% damage so even the guaranteed mitigate from Legend Term won't necessarily save you. Plasma bolts can destroy most and Legendary Plasma bolts can destroy all body parts of even an Astartes if the shots are unmitigated.


According to the wh40k fandom wiki, Artificer Power Armor provides about as much protection as Terminator Armor.

With my system:
Norm Bolter vs Norm Terminator Armor
Close: 4.68 dps
Short: 5.2 dps
Medium: 4.68 dps
Long: 3.12 dps

Master-Crafted Bolter vs MC Marine Armor
Close: 4.76 dps
Short: 5.29 dps
Medium: 4.76 dps
Long: 3.15 dps

Legend Bolter vs Legend Marine Armor
Close: 4.69 dps
Short: 5.25 dps
Medium: 4.69 dps
Long: 3.15 dps

I haven't worked out every Imperial weapon with the new system but things look favorable among the Bolter, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Gun and Lasgun.

Norm Bolter base dps
Close: 11.7
Short: 13
Medium: 11.7
Long: 7.8

Norm Bolter Term dps
Close: 4.68
Short: 5.2
Medium: 4.68
Long: 3.12


Norm Heavy Bolter base dps
Close: 9.6
Short: 12
Medium: 9.6
Long: 7.2

Norm Heavy Bolter Term dps
Close: 4.61
Short: 5.76
Medium: 4.61
Long: 3.46


Norm Lasgun base dps
Close: 16.69
Short: 18.55
Medium: 16.69
Long: 11.13

Norm Lasgun Term dps
Close: 3.13
Short: 3.48
Medium: 3.13
Long: 2.09


Norm Plasma Gun base dps
Close: 9.15
Short: 10.17
Medium: 9.15
Long: 6.1

Norm Plasma Gun Term dps
Close: 6
Short: 6.67
Medium: 6
Long: 4


Compared to the Heavy Bolter, the Bolter has an overall dps advantage in Close and Medium range but a disadvantage against Medium and Heavy Armor at Short and Long range. At higher qualities the anti-armor advantage tilts towards the HB but the Bolter can use Kraken Bolts to gain the dps advantage at all ranges; however, the HB will still have more range and can use Hellfire rounds to deal AoE and poison damage. I still need to work on how effective poison should be. Vengeance Bolts would give the Bolter more Medium/Heavy Armor dps but less unarmored and Light Armor dps as I have Ven Bolts set to increase time between shots so that base dps decreases.

The idea is to give the HeavyB the advantage at Long range to either force the Bolter to fall back out of range or advance to Medium range. If at Medium range, the HeavyB either needs to fall back to Long or advance to Short range. If at Short range the Bolter either needs to fall back to Medium or advance to Close range. If at Close range the HeavyB either needs to fall back to Short or advance to Melee range.


The Lasgun does more Basic and Light Armor damage but less Medium and Heavy Armor damage than the Bolter. Because the Bolter can use Kraken Bolts to increase its AP and the Lasgun has less range than the Bolter when using Hotshots, I gave the HS Lasgun more base dps than the Bolter. Vegeance Bolts increase the Bolter's Medium/Heavy Armor dps but reduce its unarmored/Light Armor dps, while Hellfire rounds improve the Bolter's single-target dps.

The idea is for the Bolter to be better than the Lasgun overall, especially if switching between ammo types; however, because the Lasgun is more effective in certain situations you shouldn't feel obligated to replace them all as soon as possible or at all if you have pawns you plan on keeping non-Astartes. At Legendary quality the Lasgun, along with all weapons with no AP(which I plan on making most vanilla weapons), cannot damage Terminator Armor.


The Plasma Gun does less Unarmored and Light Armor damage than the Heavy Bolter, Bolter and Lasgun but more Medium and Heavy Armor damage. At higher qualities the overall dps advantage tilts in favor of the Plasma Gun but the Bolter can use Kraken or Vengeance Bolts to reduce the Medium/Heavy Armor dps difference between it and the Plasma Gun. The HeavyB can use Hellfire Bolts to deal AoE damage and increase its single-target dps.

The idea is for the Plasma Gun to be worse against unarmored targets and Light Armor but better against Medium and Heavy Armor than the weapons with less Armor Penetration.

Is there any reason for Astartes power armor hindering movement? I would understand if it was terminator armor but no. The same goes for any of the weapons Astartes would be using as well. Lowering the movement of pawns hinders gameplay significantly since there's no proper vanilla transport vehicles... just horses and no proper hauling enhancements so my pawns could say haul around 200 units of metal instead of 75 and there's no logical use of horses here either for hauling purposes. Yeah I know some of that falls on the lap of the Dev.

@Insubordination
theres currently no Astartes power armour in any of my mods, it sounds like your using Astra Militarums power armour, wich i believe is designed that way so that its useless to non astartes pawns