XCOM 2
A Better Barracks
DuskNite Oct 10, 2017 @ 8:36am
Beta Strike with ABB is a terrible experience.
Not too sure about everyone else, but the game feels EXTREMELY ANNOYING and significantly less enjoyable with ABB and ABC+ in beta strike (6 man squad, max at 8 with GTS). I keep feeling that I don't have the tools, or everyone is underperforming massively. Not too sure of the core reasons behind it, but I get bored and tired after every mission (While previously i ran double enemies with 8 man squads and I didnt get this feeling)

Not too sure if you can or will fix this. I doubt you will care enough to try, since I definitely wouldnt myself. But perhaps it may give you some insight, so I'll list the most annoying things I felt with this mod.

I almost never use grenadiers in Beta Strike, and ABB makes me want to use him less because I cant reposition to get flanks. (And suppression might as well not be there at all. Enemies either run it and not die or they simply shoot). Increasing the enviormental destruction is an interesting idea. Never seen it do anything useful though. (Also while splitting the two components of the grenades is a good idea in alpha strike, it makes the experience terrible for beta strike)

Another thing is that I can usually rely on my specialist's Medical Protocol after the 2nd mission. With ABB I did 4 missions, and only got it on my 4th specialist. Which is extremely annoying. Some skills are basically essential in Beta Strike, and not rolling them means the units would be ditched entirely. (A Specialist without field medic and medical protocol is the most useless thing in beta strike ever, after grenadiers). Well, if I can see what the specialist may get in the future, I may choose to run him in another build. Problem is that without those skills I see no reason to bring him into any mission, and hence rank him up.

I saw a reply to another player's concerns in the comments, talking about planning around the unit you get. It would be ok if you can plan around it. Problem is that Beta Strike doesn't work that well with that concept. Not rolling medical protocol does not force you to plan around that unit. It forces you to discard him instantly and try to reroll another specialist until you get one because you literally cant play after month 3 without a specialist in each mission. Heck, I had missions where I had to use 2 of them and everyone barely survived.

Ranger with single reload is a oroblem in beta strike too, simply because you rarely get time in-between pods to spam the single reload. It is also very annoying that when you get those moments, you have to spend a few turns while your ranger slowly fills up his ammo. Does not work well when the objective is ticking, or when crates are being snatched, or basically in 75% of the missions in the game where he has to get carried instead of being the carry after 4-7 turns. Admittedly he isn't underperforming that badly, but it gets extremely annoying that you have to reload every turn, and that drags out the battle because he cant move unless if you roll sprinter, forcing him to take bad or terrible shots, or double reload and leave that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stun lancer alive.

Sniper sharpshooters are serverly underperforming in Beta Strike. They're the same in ABB. As in they're still underperforming, unfortunately. In fact, now that I think of it, I dont really care for Sharpshooters that much, because regardless of what they roll they'll still be underperforming. The range tables of sniper rifles were terrible and is still terrible, and squadsight penalties make them horrible units. And pistols do too little damage until you get fanfire. Then they become below average. (haha below average even with fanfire and both breakthroughs. Yeah they're bad).

I guess the problem mainly is beta strike itself, and this mod just makes beta strike even more unbearable, even for players who normally play that mode. I have no idea how to address this problem, since you will, and definitely should, priortize the regular mode more.
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DerBK  [developer] Oct 10, 2017 @ 10:34am 
Yes, i can keep this short. Like with A Better ADVENT, i will not consider Beta Strike when i design or balance things for A Better Barracks.

I view Beta Strike as little more than a bandaid that can mask some of the weaknesses in the vanilla game's design. I have my own ideas on how to fix these issues and those are definetely not compatible with Beta Strike.
Type1Ninja Oct 10, 2017 @ 2:22pm 
I've had pretty much the polar opposite experience. I've got the same setup as you, pretty much--Beta Strike, Commander, Ironman, ABA, ABB, ABC+, 6-8 Squad Size.

Grenadiers are great because you can suppress whenever you like, which has been very effective in preventing me from taking hits. Their grenades also allow you to smash cover, and that's just as effective as it is in vanilla--flank shots let you focus fire the important baddies to death on the first turn.

Specialists--well, I can sympathize with that complaint. Manual healing could use some kind of buff, and maybe specialists in general. Hacking is still really bad, since it has actual penalties in addition to opportunity costs. That said, I think you might just be dealing with bad RNG; I got Medical Protocol on both of my first two specialists, and Field Medic on one of them. Every Specialist has a 75% chance to get one or both of Medical Protocol and Field Medic, both of which are usable on their own.

I don't fully understand your complaint with the Ranger--I've found that they have MORE time to single reload than in the regular mode. With the upcoming autoloader change, that's going to be a non-issue. Plus, you know, you have a sword.

I put my Snipers on the high ground and they kick ass. I get high hit chance, high crit chance, and high base damage. Pistols do start out bad, especially if you don't roll their abilities, but that can probably be rebalanced.

@DerBK, I disagree about Beta Strike being a bandaid. It makes alpha striking harder. You have to prioritize high value targets like Sectoids instead of ignoring them. By giving your own soldiers more health, it also gives the game a smoother difficulty curve--bad players are still punished with wound times (at least, in theory), but their soldiers aren't instakilled. I guess I just don't see the problems with it.
DuskNite Oct 10, 2017 @ 7:10pm 
The problem with grenadiers is that 50% of the maps I need to constantly move forward to take objectives. (Extract supplies, Resistance Haven or simple GOps). Sniper Sharpshooters are slightly fine in this matter since they can stay in one place and shoot (albeit with lower and lower accuracy), but Cannon grenadiers are simply terrible because whenever I move him, he loses the most important option, which is killing a target. (Yes, suppression CAN be useful sometimes, but more often it's better if I can kill a target with him. Not being able to move to a flanking position kinda screws him up entirely.)

Also the problem with grenades is that it runs out after the first 2 pods. Or one pod if that pod has important enemies. Not because they're bad in general. It's just that they run out. Very quickly too.

My first 3 specialists rolled combat protocol and the 2 I trained another rank in rolled haywire. Instantly ditched both of them after taking massive wounds in the first Supply Raid, where I had to rush everyone because the enemy still extracts 2 crates per turn with their high hp. The grenadier i brought in that map was entirely useless too. Suppress did nothing because they simply needed to survive to obstruct you.

With rangers, in Alpha strike, you need 1 ammo for 1 kill. With the number of enemies, you easily have enough time to reload between battles (since they are in front, they dont need to move much between fights), and even if they trigger another pod, they'd have half their ammo left. In beta strike, fights are so dragged out that often, another pod appears while fighting a pod. Furthermore, you need more turns, and hence more ammo to kill enemies. This means that after a pod, you'd have 1 or 0 ammo on the ranger, and he becomes crippled.

Snipers are annoying because of the squadsight penalties. Solvable by covert actions, yes, but it's still the core issue why I find him useless. Might as well bring another ranger. Does more crit damage, has better crit change, and has better range tables. Pistol sharpshooters are terrible without their abilities and just OK with, tbh. Faceoff is good, Fanfire is good, still rather have a ranger or Skirmisher in their place.

Also DerBK is right as in Beta Strike is a small bandaid to fix some of the base game's issues. It is not a bandaid in the sense of making the game easier, of course. The game is definitely harder and more chaotic. But it is simply the devs slapping something mostly incompactible to try and solve some of the larger complaints of the community. Hence, a bandaid.
CS_frankenbite Oct 14, 2017 @ 11:04pm 
beta strike player here...After I got Mag Weapons, Cannons disappeared almost completely from my roster. Bringing an infantry with a mag rifle is much, much better than a guy with a cannon/mag cannon.

sad that derbk's not designing for beta strike though.
I loved the slower, more methodical gameplay of Beta Strike, and really disliked the dynamic of "if you didn't kill them all in the first turn you are a failure" that the base game pushes you into at higher levels. Just seems like it removes a lot of gameplay versatility when you're funneled into a single optimat strategy.

I've played with Beta Strike on since before I tried any of the AB_ mods, and now I'm running them all, so I'll trust DerBK's balance insight and fire up a regular campaign, in the hopes that all these changes together open up new viable strategies that aren't just proccing a pod on your first soldier's blue move and killing it before it gets a turn. Rather pessimistic, though, since that seems to be the gameplay pattern modders encourage.
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