Total War: ATTILA

Total War: ATTILA

XAI: Advanced Campaign AI
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Xeryx  [developer] Oct 19, 2017 @ 2:04pm
Campaign AI Bugs and ideas
Here is where we can have some discussion about the Campaign AI
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
hahaha Nov 4, 2017 @ 6:21am 
Only nomads (huns, white huns) should make razing more preferred. In your Mod, the nomads are weak. Because the nomadic people do not play razing, the movement is not active. Especially the white huns can not threaten Persia. they do not have much razing so they can not move to Persian territory.
Last edited by hahaha; Nov 4, 2017 @ 6:42am
Xeryx  [developer] Nov 4, 2017 @ 7:28am 
Thank you for posting here!. Actually the Huns are weak because I have made them not to be invincible. They still get there respawn, so how can you consider them weak? Now, they do raze, but I may have the raze more, because I found a way for them to make more money, by doing so. I however do not believe they need to raze every city.

They are razing plenty of cities in my new campaign, maybe you need to start a new one?
Last edited by Xeryx; Nov 4, 2017 @ 7:31am
Sheph Nov 5, 2017 @ 8:18am 
Problems wit the November 4 patches after a 30 turn test as WRE on hard:
Strategic components are missing:
Food irrelevant to gameplay except in wealthiest regions where it is unlikely to occur.
I say this because it primarily affects order and gdp.
Average about 800 food in first 30 turns
Happiness irrelevant as even unhappiness regions are at 0.
Corruption seems irrelevant as few means to reduce it and it is so slow.
Building is pointless to some degree, esp the military superchains.
Army integrity never seemed to be a problem.

Quite a few factions have early OP units but this is problaby intentional.
The Roman units ridiculously UP, esp the cohors.
Roman strategy: avoid recruitment and hire mercs and levis from nomad groups: get more firepower for half the cost/upkeep.
This is not historically realistic to have 70 plus percent levies/mercs.
Mercs need to be pricier; otherwise why bother planning ahead in strategy game?

Even barb Armies appear to be skewing too heavy to skirms/archers

Occupation: AI good at settling razed. They are not good at conquering. Sacking is the primary method. They seem to get lots more money from this than in Vanilla.
Saxons had sacked about 6 settlements. Razed 1. Occupied 0.
No liberations occurred unlike in vanilla.

Aggressive?
AI declared war almost s frequently as in Vanilla.
When the did so, they tended to wander in with either 1 or 2 armies and either attack a border settlement or stand next to it.
Geats sat outside Camulodulum for 8 turns.
Franks attacked within 3 turns with 2 stacks, but then retreated after I defeated one of the armies.

Roman campaign is about as easy as vanilla unintentionally for a smart gamer.
Income is crap but no corruption and public order problems means I can put all my stacks up north.
Cohors are crap. Fix this.
They key is to levy all the barb nomadidic groups every turn until your armies are maxed out.
This will make it appear you are strong at #1 to the AI.

Mercenaries are too cheap to recruit and maintain.
This removes the necessity of building recruitment infrastructure.
Barracks for Romans are crap. They cost 2-3000, have no garrisons, give 1 additional units and unit is worthless

AI settles for peace 3 turns after declaring war to sums of 500 to 3500.
AI accepts trade very easily overall relative to Vanilla.
Gifts are sometimes rejected and have very little value.
AI seems to prioritize chasing down their weakest enemy over attacking me.
I had 2 enemy armies chase the Vandals across WRE, right past level one towns they could have sacked. Once they got 'em. they turned around to attack at settlement but were too depleted to take even one and I got 'em in return.
AI pretty good at occupying neighboring territories they conquer.
For Rome they preferred sacking.
After 30 turns, I had EVERY region from start game. I had to take 2 back, but it was easy during lulls between fighting.


Summary:
This is an ok game for WRE that I've give a C. Hard is really moderate after 25 turns and you have some income.
The main problem with barb AI now is that they are using for peace after 1-4 battles even if I have armies nowhere near them and they have inflicted no losses.
There were 2 exceptions to this.
AI did seem a bit too defensive on the attack, preferring to keep a stack at home and caving after the first loss to go back home.
In vanilla, it's non stop kamikazee runs which is ok if everyone is doing it.
Last edited by Sheph; Nov 5, 2017 @ 8:23am
Xeryx  [developer] Nov 5, 2017 @ 10:09am 
Well where to begin.
Units are really a moot point as the only thing I have done is increase their costs from vanilla. That will however change once I get to finish the vanilla rebalance, which I am working on, but it will take awhile. I will note the discrepancies with the Romans and may ask for more input on them directly when I get to them. Once, the units are done and I can come up with a better cost system than vanilla, mercs will be 1.5x -2x more expensive than an equivalent unit.

Unit recruitment is also untouched from vanilla, as there is already a recruitment mod out there there does an adequate job of fixing this issue.

Peace will not be as easily offered, as I have already addressed this today. However, it is all about finding the right levels for that particular table. As they need to coincide with the other table so they do not skew, and the only way to do that is testing.

Occupation: is still a WIP as I am also working on the levels. They are however good at conquering, you just did not play enough turns to see the aggression level after a build up. I am on turn 50 and half of the WRE has been conquered by the AI. There are adjustments to make. As to the point of liberation, I have limited it to only occur at certain times as it gets out of control in vanilla from other peoples feedback.

As to squallor, public order and food. They are high for a reason, for the AI. In vanilla the AI crumbles, specifically ROME because of these things. This is because the AI mechanic for fixing these issues does not work worth a crap. Once and if it can be fixed, then I can lower the levels back to vanilla. So far, all my attempts to make that mechanic work properly have failed and it maybe broken.

I know you like to play ROME, and you think that the majority of players play Rome and you might be right...but I know plenty of people that do not like to play them, as I don't in this game. Because if I wanted to play Rome, I would play Rome 2. The WRE and ERE have many broken or flawed mechanics in this game from an AI perspective. Specifically the personalities, research paths, and construction paths for the AI. These have to be fixed as well, I have already made much better Rome personalities for the game, but you would not know that. The other personalities will also undergo some personalization, as a celtic or germanic tribe probably doesn't give a crap about the Sassanids.

But here is the point I really want to make loudly, CA values were NOT correct in most of the AI diplomacy or the occupation tables. You must have played a very different game than me, because when I played Vanilla it was not aggressive, not any faction it couldn't conquer its way out of a wet paper sack. The Huns were the only faction that actually could do something, and that was Raze everything. We are looking at the game from 2 different perspectives, you as the Roman player, and me as the Barbarian player.

I could observe the AI for 100 turns in vanilla, and Rome would crumble completely on its own strictly through rebellions. The rebels themselves could conquer Rome.

XAI diplomacy is far superior to Vanilla as well, because deals at least the deals make sense and cost the appropriate amount of money.

Imperium-
Imperium in XAI gives points for territory owned as well as the other ways, as it should be. Therefore as a Roman, and Sassanid you start off with more imperium than the rest of the factions. Imperium really is a double edged sword that makes my life very difficult. Sometimes, I am half tempted to remove it from any diplomatic situation. On one side you have imperium that makes a relationship more difficult (or easier in some cases), but on the other Imperium makes deals much easier to obtain as it increases. Making it almost impossible to balance for all factions, but especially for Romans. That is probably the reason why CA did not have imperium used for territory in vanilla, because it puts the diplomacy at the same levels for everyone, and that really wasn't the way it should be either. The Romans should have an easier time at diplomacy than most of the other factions, something that everyone seems to complain about. That is why trade agreements are currently easy for Rome, and they will remain that way for the rest of people that actually play other factions, so they can get a trade agreement in the early part of the game. Imperium is skewed a bit for the Roman player, try playing another faction and just see how hard diplomacy really is.

I also completely disagree with your assessment about stacks the AI alway ran away from any stack that was from a powerful faction or had a lot of experience. That has been lowered in the XAI and now instead of everyone running away from the Huns or WRE, they are now fighting and conquering their stacks and cities.

Summary,
Rome and the Huns are the protagonists in this game, they are the villains and I believe that the majority of players play other factions. Therefore the first priority is to make sure the AI Romans work the way they should. As a Roman player you do not see the big picture for the whole game. I for one am not going to balance the XAI towards the Romans any more than I have to. So, some temporary measure have been taken to make sure the AI Roman actually start performing. Like that they actually produce armies and defend their territory, which is something that they did not do at all in vanilla. There will be no way that I as a modder am going to please everyone because Rome skews the balance of this game dramatically in the overall mechanics of the game.
Last edited by Xeryx; Nov 5, 2017 @ 12:00pm
Sheph Nov 5, 2017 @ 1:21pm 
It's adequate to say I hear you and will do what I can within my vision. I only did 30 turns and don't feel like playing further when the dread factor is gone.
I didn't say the AI ran away. They ran away after losing a battle THEN sued for peace. Sometimes didn't even attack. Rarely took a province.
Is there factor where they have more motivation to sack than to actually conquer?
I like that the saxons both raze and sack. The razed once out of 5 engagements.
Overall, I would double check Vanilla. The AI is certainly more aggressive on hard and will not stop in most cases until you have eliminated all their armies.
daefke Nov 17, 2017 @ 4:29am 
Hi, playing as the garamantians on very hard. I was building up my army to attack ERE. The sassanids declared war on me 2 times after i encountered them with my spy, even if they are on the other side of the map and i don't share any borders with them, then 10 turns later, himyar declared war with me out of nothing, even if my relations were neutral. I am having a hard time sueing for peace with the sassanids. I was trying to make an alliance with Aksum at that time, wo were at war with himyar.
Does the imperium level matters a little to much in the decision of the AI to attack a faction?

I also notice that playing without the garrison mod, both roman empires are having a difficult time defending their territories. I persenally find the garrisons a little too big, so I play without that mod.

Overall the mod is great!
Keep up the good work!
Xeryx  [developer] Nov 17, 2017 @ 5:59am 
OK first you are VERY HARD and there are more aggressive personalities, even ones that hate humans. 2) Imperium as far as I know, only affects 2 things in diplomacy. a) your relations with a faction..makes them harder b) At the same time it also makes deals easier.

Your war can be caused by a third party now, as it is easier for other factions to ask factions to join a war and they do not have to be an ally. They just may hate you. There is really not to much that I can do about a faction declaring war on you from across the world right now.

But as I rework the personalities, over time, some of the stupid hatreds with factions that shouldn't have them will go away or at least be less frequent.

As far as garrisons go, I do not plan on making the AI any more defensive as far as keeping stacks in a province. With the AI fulfilling attacks and me giving more siege equipment, I recommend that you do use the a better garrisons mod.

BTW, the declaring war halfway across the world happened plenty to me when I played vanilla.
There is only one parameter that controls diplomacy distance. and I did lower it by 5% this version. I don't want to go down much more, because then wars and relationships are a bit too localized.
Last edited by Xeryx; Nov 17, 2017 @ 6:02am
Sheph Nov 22, 2017 @ 9:38am 
As the WRE, the Sassanids were begging me for an alliance every 2 turns after initial discovery. This was new. It does seem that Imperium of the WRE was a much larger factor than I recall from Vanilla. Most, or all, personalities are randomly assigned; that may have something to do with their behavior towards Garmantia.
Xeryx  [developer] Nov 22, 2017 @ 10:27am 
Did they admire large powerful factions? Yes the random faction thing is a pain. I plan on making more custom AI''s that do not have improper or stupid likes and dislikes. Note though, as far as I know I cannot do it for specific factions. But the Sassanids, huns, germanics, and romans have their own specific group. That will allow me to tailor fit the personalities for each group. GC on has like 56 custom personalities, while AOC has over 400...which is really opposite of how it should be. GO figure. I have been trying to find a way to keep factions from bugging the human player too much as it does get annoying. But once levels of relations hit the multipliers for specific likes and dislikes then they can get really annoying.

I have also noticed gdwitt, that you have not really made many great comments on how much the XAI has improved. Why I think the main reason the Romans have it so easy is mainly due to their Starting faction traits. Especially, considering this is the fall of Rome! they have it way too easy. The ERE for example gets a 5% boost and a 50 trade tariff increase, which is fine..but where is the turmoil and penalty factors? I think Rome needs a starting trait rebalance with more penalties.
Last edited by Xeryx; Nov 23, 2017 @ 2:40am
Mr. Frank Jan 18, 2018 @ 1:41pm 
so, after 67 turns as white huns on hard i got attacked 3 times. for the last 40 turns or so, that number is 0. the AI really needs to be more agressive. gonna do a run in the middle of europe to see if that changes.

EDIT: by more agressive, i mean that, when at war, it will attack the player more often, not just run away and hide. i mean, i destroyed all of the sassanids vassals and razed the sassanid empire itself without getting attacked more than 3 times. i alone destroyed 6 factions that were always at war against me
Last edited by Mr. Frank; Jan 18, 2018 @ 2:04pm
Xeryx  [developer] Jan 18, 2018 @ 8:53pm 
Are you sure you have all the modules installed? The AI running away is a vanilla trait.
Mr. Frank Jan 18, 2018 @ 10:36pm 
i have campaign and diplomacy modules, because in the other areas i want to have vanilla experience since i'm new to the game
Xeryx  [developer] Jan 19, 2018 @ 11:35am 
Since you are new to the game, you will find that the game is fairly easy especially vanilla. In fact most Total war games are not that hard to steam roll the AI. Don't have extreme expectations that XAI is a super AI that is just gonna whoop your ass, because it isn't.
Last edited by Xeryx; Jan 19, 2018 @ 11:37am
Hot Contents Jun 18, 2018 @ 12:52am 
I would have preferred that the description stated that the difficulty level bonuses and penalties are in fact wealth modifiers. Maybe even have an icon at the top bar in the game that would indicate that all those -28% wealth modifiers come from the difficulty setting.
Last edited by Hot Contents; Jun 18, 2018 @ 12:53am
Sheph Jun 18, 2018 @ 4:20am 
It is an easy place to access and modify for beginning players. I like to but them in effects bundles tied to imperium level.
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