XCOM 2
A Better ADVENT: War of the Chosen
Olin011 Sep 23, 2017 @ 3:06am
My thoughts on ABA so far + few ideas on ABC
I nearly finished my ABA campaign (I'm left with Forge and skulljacking the Codex). I have some thoughts on the AI + ideas some for ABC. This is a wall of text so I decided to post it as a separate topic.


ABA feedback:
Generally very positive! I played the original version and I subscribed to ABA once again after completing vanilla WOTC run. I like the variety of enemies and the improved AI over vanilla. The primes are definately more challenging than their regualr counterpart although they could attack more and move less with their reflex actions.

That said, there are some changes in AI that would give us players a harder time.

Overwatch:
I believe the game would be more challenging if Advent put less emphasis on overwatch (especially after the first one), if they can take at least 15-20% shots. Advent taking pot shots at you will hurt you more in the long run as they get lucky once every five or six times. You will have more wounded and will have to use even more lower ranked soldiers. I know that the purpose of overwatches is to slow you down and fail the mission but usually you remove the overwatches during your turn and they don't do that much.

Primes:
As mentioned before if attacked the primes usually change the spot and look for another cover, which is good if I blow their cover or flank them. However, you might consider randomizing their behaviour so that if they are attacked through cover (and not flanked) they don't move but fire back even if it means taking 15-20% shot. Or use ability or a grenade. This changing cover behaviour usually concerns Muton Primes. Sectoids when attacked through cover replied with mind control but when I hit them again they started running which didn't help them that much. I'm not saying they should always fire back but some randomization would be good and they should not be afraid to take low percantage shots. The same is with Archons – they fly too much instead of just shooting back.

I have never seen Sectopod Prime and I'm in October right now. Am I unlucky or they have not been implemented yet?


Priests and Specters:
I think they need their AI changed just like Sectoids, i.e. if they can flank and shoot you they should do that. Almost all the Priests do right now is stasis and sometimes mind control. While these can mess your plan killing or heavily wounding your guy is usually better. Specters are the same – they always rush to shadowbind one of your troops even if they could take a flanking shot. For this reason they are not that dangerous. If I engage only one pod I leave the Specters be and concentrate on units that can actually wound or kill me. I let the Specter do its thing and then kill it next round.

Purifiers:
:) For now I'm using Advent Avenger mod.

The Lost:
From my experience 50/50 targeting is not fair for Advent at all. After playing for a while with this rule I understand why the Lost were designed the way they were in vanilla. When you are fighting advent and new the swarm spawns they start at the other side of the battlefield, usually closer to Advent troops. They attack Advent first, player second. The player usually has one turn before the Lost will close in on them. The Advent is often immediately surrounded. This is the first disadvantage for Advent. But the main one is Advent AI that cannot deal with the Lost as effectively as the player. I don't know if this can be done but I would forbid the AI to use some special abilities against the Lost as this is the cause of the most glaring problems. The best examples are: Snakes that instead of shooting bind one Lost while being surrounded by a swarm, then loosing the bind because they get hit repeatedly, Mutons that bayonet the Lost. On top of that the player can use ultarsonic lure to direct all the Lost to attack the Advent. I think 70/30 bias against the player is fair.


Some ABC ideas:

Pod diversity:
I saw this on reddit somewhere and I agree with OP that mentioned having large pods of low tier troopers. I would introduce them mid game. Sometimes difficulty comes not from few powerful enemies but from inability to kill/control all the lesser units in one turn.

Also, starting from mid game there could be some larger pods with additional low-tier units. So, for example, you would have Mk2 officer, Mk2 Trooper and Mk2 Purifier PLUS Mk1 Trooper in a pod that is guarding a relay.

Late-game Pods of Doom:
Muton Infectors led by Muton Prime, 3 Sectopods or 2 Sectopods led by a Gatekeeper etc. Not joking - I would love to have a fight with three sectopods charging at my position. These pods could be introduced by a dark event or as a sitrep (high concentration of advent armor for sectopods or sth like that).


Permanent tactical dark events:
Additional events that grant various units new abilities (implacable, ever vigilant, covering fire etc.) during the campaign. It is up to debate wether the player should be able to counter them or not. The event pool can be large enough so you won't see all the advent upgrades in one game. Also there could be dark events that grant all or some of the units +1HP or +1 damage to mag or beam weapons. These could be countered by covert ops - upon completion there would be a mission to sabotage a facility to destroy the improvements.


All in all great mod! Hopefully some of the things will be useful and help improving it. Definitely looking forward to playing new content and trying ABC!

EDIT: spelling/typos
Last edited by Olin011; Sep 23, 2017 @ 5:52am
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Showing 1-3 of 3 comments
DerBK  [developer] Sep 24, 2017 @ 3:57am 
Hey, thanks for the feedback. Threads like these are always welcome.

On Overwatch:
Overwatch is a constant source of discussion. I already lowered the chances considerably with the new version. Personally, i don't think the enemy overwatches too often, but i would be open to a couple tweaks here and there.

On Primes:
Sounds like your issue with their behavior is similar to the one with Overwatch, where you want the enemies to take more hail mary shots than they currently do.
Sectopod Prime is kinda rare right now, i want to increase his spawnrate a bit in the future.

On Priests/Spectre:
My reasoning here is that i don't want to make all enemies feel the same. If Priests and Spectres would just try to do the usual flank/standardshot routine, they wouldn't be much different from a Muton or a Striker. I don't want to turn Spectres into 20hp Advent Troopers.

On Lost:
To be honest, i don't see much of a difference at all between 50/50 and 70/30. Right now, i have almost no opinion on that change... which is somewhat weird.
I agree with your assessment that some skills just shouldn't be used on Lost and i have started on putting some checks that do this into the targeting of a couple skills.

On ABC:
Your ideas are sound, some of them are on my list of ideas as well. I don't really want to comment too much on this before i know what i am actually able to deliver.
Olin011 Sep 24, 2017 @ 10:18am 
Originally posted by DerBK:
Hey, thanks for the feedback. Threads like these are always welcome.

On Overwatch:
Overwatch is a constant source of discussion. I already lowered the chances considerably with the new version. Personally, i don't think the enemy overwatches too often, but i would be open to a couple tweaks here and there.

On Primes:
Sounds like your issue with their behavior is similar to the one with Overwatch, where you want the enemies to take more hail mary shots than they currently do.
Sectopod Prime is kinda rare right now, i want to increase his spawnrate a bit in the future.

Yes, I guess I don't like overwatch that much :D At least not when you are fighting small pods that you can control.

I will try to elaborate. Another wall of text (sorry!)
XCOM2 is generally a game of pod management and alpa-strking a single pod at a time. Even if it is a larger pod of 4 or 5 (because a single unit from previous pod ran away and rejoined a second pod) usually after your turn of killing you are left with 1 or 2 enemy units. Now it is AI turn and it tries to hurt you. If it sets up an overwatch with one or both units usually you're golden. You've got 5 or 6 guys to break the overwatches with grenades, lightning reflexes, gremlins, psi spells, stocks etc. You will need, let's say, half of the team to do this, the rest will rush the AI or shoot them flanked because their cover was blown. 2 overwatching dudes will almost never do any harm to a full squad. Now if these guys were allowed to be more unpredictable they could take some hail mary shots and maybe, just maybe, hit you. Considering XCOM2 mechanics that might actually be a critical hit. If these guys don't overwatch you will maybe spend 1 action less by not needing to remove any overwatches. You will probably spend similar no. of actions anyway in order to blow their cover and shoot them or just by moving your troops to flanking position. Or you will have so high chance of hitting them (height advantage, scopes) that you will not have to flank them at all. According to my experience this is a common scenario and I would argue that from a difficulty perspective it is often better for Advent to take these pot shots than to overwatch.

Of course everybody sometimes pulls more pods and then things get interesting. I would say that in these situations it could actually be good for Advent to overwatch with one or two units. These scenarios are usually more messy and player often needs to relocate their troops. So they will need to waste an action on removing an overwatch from some trooper that is not a priority target or risk running the overwatch(es). But still even in this case maybe it would be good to leave an option of Advent to shoot at the player with everything they've got. An average shot of 15% - 20% means that at least one of them hits.

I didn't consider in these scenarios other abiliites that aliens can use and they should definately use them as they do now. I mainly concentrated on what is better in case you need to choose between hail mary and overwatch. I don't know if you can code the AI based on how many units are active/engaged with XCOM as this changes a lot IMO (as I tried to illustrate). If this is possible that would be great.

Originally posted by DerBK:
On Priests/Spectre:
My reasoning here is that i don't want to make all enemies feel the same. If Priests and Spectres would just try to do the usual flank/standardshot routine, they wouldn't be much different from a Muton or a Striker. I don't want to turn Spectres into 20hp Advent Troopers.

I get it and I agree. But predictability is their weakness that player can exploit. So let's make them less predictable if possible. The chance they will do something different can be small but let it be there (like in case of Sectoids). They have weapons, they should use them sometimes :) It will increase the tension of the engagement as the player will not be sure what they will do and will need to account for different behaviours.

One more idea regarding difficulty – decrease the environmental damage of all the weapons across the board like LW2 did. Suddenly the game will be much more difficult when you won't be able to blow a wall with one frag grenade. At least for me. I think I will do that in my next campaign + I also will add one slot to starting armor so you will have more options to deal with the increased challenge (almost) from the start.
Last edited by Olin011; Sep 24, 2017 @ 10:27am
DerBK  [developer] Sep 24, 2017 @ 9:18pm 
I am not a fan of the environmental damage decrease in LW2 at all. Anyways, it's not something i would change in ABA itself, it goes too far beyond AI and enemies. I do have some plans on what to do about grenades for my item and class overhaul 'A Better Barracks', but god knows when that is going to be done :D

For now, i am perfectly fine with the Damage Falloff modifier from the new Second Wave option in WotC.
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