Hello ! Can you make this mod work for 1212AD this mod is gr8 im playing Radious with it atm and is one of the best iv played with or an update to the mod maybe?

Why the mod is shown outdated ?

it reads from top to bottom mods that are lower will overwrite mods on top generally.

Do you know how the load order works in the launcher? Should I put your mod above other mods like Fall of the Eagles or 1212, or after? Because it's not really evident if it loads mods from the bottom or top first. :D

it should

Would this mod work with 1212?

I agree strongly about the movement, i was playing with it but i couldn't get it how i liked mainly because the speed is either casual walk or sprint like the wind, there's no double time or jog. The thing is, People can sprint pretty quickly compaired to most animals our acceleration is faster than a horses. I have been meaning to slow horses acceleration but in my tests that kills the AI's ability to use cavalry... so not sure about a solution.

I've played a bit as Sclaveni for the last two days and it is an interesting experience! Using nothing but this plus campaign lightning and loyalty penalty fix.

The combat dynamics are quite good, fight lasts much longer frontally allowing for more interesting flanking play. The archers are also interesting, next to useless frontally and surprisingly, against each other. Also, the HP system is quite pronounced, maybe more then in the other mods - casualties are low in the beginning of an engagement and then rise sharply in a more prolonged shotout. It works well.

If there is something I'd like to add, it is that the movement speed is still quite high. I didn't come to the later, heavier units, but for now, it is common to see cavalry with speed up to 100, which is blazingly fast. This makes it super easy to outflank AI (which uses double lines of infantry, so has a shorter battle line).

I'll be playing more in the coming days, so far so good :)

You'll need the DLC but yes they are a valid faction to play as.

Are the Slavs playable?

@N4MER - not my intention to flame any of them. Sorry if it came across that way. I'm just trying to provide constructive criticism based on how it worked in battles when i tried these mods. I think adding lots of armour is a mistake and just reducing chance to hit and improving defence to front might work better. Modding is beyond my abilities and i doubt i'd get the time to do it even if it wasn't.

@BlackStabbath Good to hear that there is AP on all weapons in your mod though. And thanks for all your work in making it - and for the replies. But i just fought a big campaign battle with it and legionaries could barely scratch German nobles, nor could comitatenses spears attacking them from behind while the legionaries attacked them from the front and cavalry charged them repeatedly in the back too. They lost about 15 men in the entire battle which went on a good 10 minutes - while the legionaries took massive casualties. Light skirmish cavalry survived for ages in melee with heavy infantry. I think it goes to far in making some units almost invincible, but i'll definitely look at it again when it's updated.

@dmcf The stats look odd because they don't matter as much as you would think. The way they have been edited hasnt touched the spesific unit stats but rather the equipment they carry. What is happening is that the shield armour value is basicaly non existant in vanilla. I made the shield type more important and its effect have more impact.

The high armour values are so high because of the way total stats are calculated in game and as such are quite a usless representation of what the stats acctually mean spesifically. dose 94 armour mean full plate or a good shield? dose it protect against arrows better or from swords? you can't tell from that number alone.

What dose matter in this mod in refrence to armour is the positioning of your troops, the size and shape of the shield and what cover they grant. Stats do not tell you this nor can they.

@dmcf As for AP all units have ap based on what weapon they are using there is no -ap infact in this mod you will see a bonus to AP across all weapons and ammo.

However i will be editing this mod in late October to re evaluate what units acctually use what armour as it is listed due to my suspission that CA has reused values to be applyed to units that may not posess the acctual visual equipment of those values.

Maybe kjust reducing the to hit chance and giving units more defence against attacks to the front , and more shield protection against missiles would be better - and remove all the bonuses to armour which are too high and not balanced by unit type. Also remove the armour piercing penalty on sword armed units thats in vanilla.

I can see the intention behind this mod , but it doesn't really work the way it's intended to. High armour units become virtually invulnerable. And because CA decided swords have poor armour piercing pretty much completely invulnerable to any sword armed unit. Cavalry's armour value is way too high (especially light cavalry skirmishers who have almost as high armour as armoured heavy infantry.

Pity as a lot of the other ideas in it are good ones (especially like cavalry being less effective in rough terrain and skirmishers being more effective in them).

Does this mod change armour rating and defence of units? I started a game with this and some other mods and know scouts equites light cavalry have about 50% higher defence and almost the same armour as cohors armoured heavy infantry which doesn't seem right.

Great mod - any chance of making it compatible with this one that makes movement rates vary more by unit type (i.e light cavalry fastest, then medium cavalry, then heavy cavalry, then light infantry, then medium, then heavy infantry)?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1267025627

great mod

Great mod. Combat seems much more realistic than vanilla and some other mods ive tried out.

sure thing ;)

Also is it possible to increase the impact of horses? I tried fighting a very heavy skirmisher from the front and back, charging - he'd barely suffer any casualties at all, let alone he wouldn't rout, but that's morale thingy.

Thanks for the feedback, i'll look into that again. the problem i had with that is how the game discerns what constitures as "rear"; if one guy from the rear is in combat then OMG you are surrounded!! or if you try to pull your troops out of combat they will just rout because the face of the unit has to flip meaning you are being rear attacked. it is a bit of a faff but i'll try to get something to help elites be less sticky in combat.

I was testing it for a while with my friend - most average and elite units do not flee even when surrounded. I think you need to give even worse rear penalties. :D

@tillhopedies It's very simple you can learn the basics in 20 mins and start. There's a good video series on how to use PFM, (thats the moding tool i use) on youtube. On the creation kit too. i've herd that the creation kit is easyer to learn and update.

no idea how to mod. i would love to make my own !

@tillhopedies play around with charge stat values or mess around with the KV tables untill your happy. i don't get what you are 'enduring' create your own mod. :D

spectre, i could not agree with you more. Sick of attila, sick of how if i want slower combat i have to endure archers beating or compleltly being a barrier to my cav. I can have arcade, fast battles or archers that stop cav in mele. Just going to give up with any hope of a balanced "longer battles" mod/.

@Spectre it makes me so sad to see a wedge formation charging right into the centre of a formation, in the rear or otherwise.

@Spectre from a gaming perspective, i found it would be over powered if one charge could wipe a skirmisher unit so i made it generally 2 charges. This also reflects how cavalry acctually faught by riding by and nibbling at the edges. its why you have cavalry collums and wedges. Unfortuantly cavalry engagments don't work that way in total war as they just smash into the middle.

For medieval knights it was diffrent as they did do this but where pretty much invulnrable both in armour and politically, they where very valuable allive so where often pulled from there horses and sold back to the enemy. You see evidance of this in the artwork and weaponry used at the time such as the bill hook.

In any other period cavalry simply not as suicidal as knights where. but i think its where the idea comes from.

@Black I can understand your way of thinking that cav shouldn't be in prolonged melee but a charge from even lighter cav units (rear or front) should in real life be enough to break any light skirmishing force deffinitly if they are thralls, peasants or any other non proffesional soldier most of the time drafted against their will. If facing proffesional soldiers i can follow your point of view :)
And a nimble peron with a club or dagger isn't much of a force against a large horse that can kick and bite while standing still (which is what war horses do) together with a guy holding a spear that outranges your club/dagger
Anyway, thanks for the fast respons and keep up the modding work since I can't ;)

@Spectre Thanks again for your feedback and time spent testing the mod. As to your complaint about archer fire to the rear, that is a problem i have tried to adress and thought that i had fixed, it seems fine to me currently but i'm not using any other mods. The origial problem was with how shield hit boxes worked. so that when i raised the missile deflection chance of shields it didn't reflect the animations for overhead shield holding.

I will look into this again. Thanks

@Spectre thank you for your feedback. The issue you are having with cav in melee with archers is completely intentional as you should never keep cav locked in any melee for any length of time. people are more nimble than horses,better reactions than horses and have faster acceleration than horses. But you can pull through loose formations with few losses and charge. The advantage of being mounted is that you have very good linear momentum. The idea is not to loose that advantage.

Bit of a rant here - I've alwayse had a bit of a problem with how the perception of cavalry has been handeled in total war games and media as a whole really. A guy on a horse isn't going to stand there and 1v1 anyone and not expect him self or his horse to die 99% of the time. Especialy against skirmishers.

I have tested this for a while now and I find my cav losing to light archers and archers and javalins doing close to no damage when firring in the rear of other units. I have some other mods that i use togheter with this one that modifies cav and archers like better cav charges and realistic arrows (makes them shoot higher) but they shouldn't change any stats.
Units sometimes just keep going untill they are completly killed of and other times run after sustaining 20% casualties.
I do play this with anitquity wich is an overhaul mod

@Black Stabbath wow, didn't expect how fast you reply. Thanks :D

this should work with any mod :D but let me know

works with MKTW?

Other mods do these things this mod is intended to be compatable with almost everything.

Playing your mod and forgotten empires reskin. Gorgeous experience. Though I wonder if you intend to ever make a more thorough unit overhaul? Maybe keep the vanilla units but give them certain formations and whatnot, like shieldwall to romans? Give parthian shot to some units, tweak ammunition etc? Maybe as a submod?

HI there I've been using this mod and noticed that mercenaries, norse bridage for example, has an armor value of 60. I've seen this with a couple other mercenary units as well, is this an issue related to the update you mentioned?

Good stuff man :D

Chrom
The main issue with the norse factions comes from the armor values thay are linked to especialy erly game, they have poor base stats no armor and weak weapons, to make them stronger using my method for compatibility reasons it would make other factions simply more powerful. i will have a deeper look into it right now acctually. You might see an update later today.

Great philosophy behind this, though it's too rough for me to play it now (got too frustrated as a norsemen, for reasons you probably know). Hope you get back to this, the world has too few compatibility-focused good rebalances.

does this mod works with AOC?

Great to see new upcoming updates. Keep up the good work!

@Darth Vader Thank you for the kind words. The tags trigger from a standardised armor value within unmodifyed areas of the db section. i'd need to modify them. Sadly the more i add the less compatible it will be with other mods. As it stands this mod works with or overwrites most mods and their features. So it can be used with other overhauls.

One issue i have noticed is that nordic factions erly tier units are extreemly useless with this mod active (and in vanilla) so i will adress that in an upcoming update.

The Seax (sax, sæx, sex, latinized - sachsum) is the primary weapon norse band use and was one of the first steel weapons, made from traded damascan steel and iron constructed in a similar fashion to the conservative japanese katana. This weapon was an exelent side arm and tool.

So i can justify it being alittle more powerful than it currnetly is.

So I use this mod and it is very good so far. But I have some issues with unit informations. For example all units have the tag "Excellent Amor" or above even slavic levys. It is not bad but however it confused me sometimes a little bit :D
For tactical lovers I can only recommend this mod and battles are much more enjoyable.
Thanks for the mod !

You'll have to use tactics in order to defeat your enemy, employ a wide formation and surround your oponant for example.

apparently does not seem to work , nobody dies in combat in Melee . I made a fighting 160 no vs 160 after 20minute nobody to die :(

@XTERMIN59
The mod is updated and working correctly now :) Thank you for your time