Hi, again thanks for the mod, playing the first time with it since the vampire DLC beta.


1) Cutthroats still have the Evolve trait, but don't actually evolve at legendary XP rank

2) Clinging Shadows - the description says "is replaced by Clinging Mist" but i guess it should be the other way round? Assuming it's meant to make melee attackers fumble or miss and prevent Charge attacks, which works like a charm on its own

(since ranged enemies shouldn't be an issue when you inflict Blind at range with Stygian Magic anyways)

I was kinda skeptical at first but I must admit all three tomes are really well designed AND unique ! I am really enjoying it and can only celebrate your effort into balancing it

Some feedback regarding the "newish" Tome of Temptation. It is a cool idea but the minor transformation is kinda underwhelming and odd for being in a t4 tome of this type. Perhaps you can make it work around the new temptation effect? Perhaps called something like "Alluring Presence" giving your race a chance to inflict attackers with it and give some stat bonus like more status res or something.
The "Crime Ring" SPI is also very odd and perhaps could be replaced with something more thematic.

@Sciencefictionguy Hey thanks so much for this mod update. I was actually going to use it for the first time right before the update and had a whole build planned out. But you updated it and had to rethink the build. I really like these tomes, and I think with the changes you made were a great improvement. I'm having a lot of fun with this play through. That being said I came across an issue.

Bug report: the Cutthroat does not evolve into a Shade when reaching legendary rank. I have the DLC, a tier 3 city, and shade researched. When looking at the rank description pop up for the cutthroat, there is no text under the word legendary.

Hopefully this is an easy fix or maybe it's an issue on my end somehow. The evolve to shade is my favorite addition you made to this mod

My favorite mod gets a major update! Yay! Looks well thought out. I was mentally starting up the modding software when I saw there was no Tome of Vice, but I really like changes made regarding Reveal Infiltrator (likely my favorite spell) and Succubus. I'll have to find new ways to backstab at the Tome II level ...
I'll only miss Exploit Weakness. I thought the all-of-one-type targeting was fun and interesting.

Okay, finally done fixing my factions. Now that the shock has worn off, time for some actual feedback.

First, I'm not sure I like the added torment effects in these tomes. I feel like Tome of Darkness and Tome of Torment have too much overlap now, being the same tier and affinity. Maybe Darkness could have a sunless terraform spell instead. And a way to ignore sunless penalties for non-vampire/undead.

Second, the succubus is a great unit. I'm just wondering why she deals frost damage. As an infernal fiend, shouldn't she be dealing fire damage?

I confess I like the succubus having hair instead of being bald.

No! Why? WHY??? You just broke almost a dozen of my custom factions!

Please forgive the placeholder icons, I ran out of time to make new ones. Will fill them in sometime later.

Balance for the new tome is also somewhat uncertain as my time for playtesting was limited, I may follow up with some balance changes later.

Yeah, they definitely are winding up with different ideas for Shadow/Chaos than you, lol. Like I said, I am not sure I agree with they went about it from the start, but here's what you've got to work with, I guess.

I would argue that avarice isn't necessarily a theme of Materium. Materium is associated with gold that is derived from industry or transmutation magic. Profiting from looting and crime is more of a Chaos or Shadow trait. Chaos is the most pillaging-focused affinity after all.

That being said I have been thinking about possibly changing some of these tomes to Shadow-Materium or Shadow-Shadow. Partly because they're going to overlap with the new Shadow-Chaos blood tomes in the upcoming DLC.

Not fully decided yet either way, I might wait to see what they do with the Empire Tree rework which should be coming with the Rise from Ruin DLC next year.

If anything, the actual muckup is Necro could've been hybrid, as earth and undeath themes have some natural affinity. But the routes they took precluded that. At the end of the day, I just like to adhere to the implied thematic synergy that the mechanics suggest.

The thing is, Shadow really covers the vast majority of the supernatural in this one, same as Shades. Otherwise, the damage channels are cold and -physical-, and again, the resource angles are all around gold and knowledge.

Fact is, I'd argue very little about this is "chaos", besides the overly vague implications of havoc magic. It probably actually is just pure shadow, but I cannot miss that Shades slots in perfectly to the three, and the three slot perfectly with Shades. If I had my druthers, Oblivion would've been re-fit as well, since the Fog also shares the armor-piercing shtick.

I agree that mechanically making it mat/shadow would be good, although thematically I reckon shadow/chaos makes a lot more sense.... Saying that, maybe the Tome of Vice could be mat/shadow, especially with the avarice/materialistic desire for gold angle. The only issue there is the Succubus not being particularly Material-coded..

These tomes are awesome, and badly needed for the theme. My only request, and I understand if not... can they be Mat/Shadow instead, to better match Tome of Shades? I actually also think they lean into it due to the focus on gold/resources on one end, and darkness and underground always comes together in my mind. Plus, easier Creator access for a buff to Stalkers.

Thanks!

Griffon Patch update is complete, details can be found under change notes. You might need to un-sub and re-sub to force the mod to update to the most recent version.

If you find any issues I missed please let me know.

nice patch, i lke the changes, my brother in law and me having a lots of fun with your mod in multiplayer!

Ah noted. Now that you mention the Succubus is actually using the same Seduce ability as the Nymph. It's been a while since I looked at them so I forgot.

Yeah, sorry about the confusion. I did notice later that the Nymph's seduce was able to do that also. I had not encountered Nymphs often enough to take notice do that.

Nexious is actually wrong, there are abilities which can Dominate heroes, such as the Nymph's Seduce and some Eldritch Sovereign abilities.

@Montegomery / @Nexious

Thanks for the bug reports, I will look into and fix the Shrouded Altar tooltip and Succubus Seduce ability for the next update.

@Montgomery

Exploit Weakness targets multiples of the same unit. For example if you cast it on a Gremlin it will affect all enemy Gremlins on the battlefield.

There isn't really a succinct way to communicate that without a whole paragraph so I just made sure to use different phrasing from "unit type" which refers to whether the unit is an animal/undead/celestial/etc.

(Nevermind about Nightfall, I'm a derp and forgot about the "unit must be standing alone" requirement.)

Two other bits of feedback/bug reporting:

* Nightfall sometimes only hits a single enemy when cast. It seems to function correctly when it repeats, but I haven't done a careful study.
* It's a bit ambiguous what "units of the same kind" means for Probe Weakness.

Wanted to thank you for the wonderful tomes, and also note one small issue.

The second of the Shrouded Altar's benefits states "+5 Research Post". I think it's supposed to say "+5 Knowledge".

You should offer these Tomes separately too for people who don't want to overload their tomes list. I'd love a standalone Tome of Vice for example.

Just noticed a big oversight because I don't think it is intended. The Succubus can use their "Seduce" ability on heroes/leaders which is really overpowered and no other mind control is able to do this for a reason.

Oh, no worries. Modding is a hobby and you do this for free. I understand perfectly. Thank you for looking into it and I hope it doesn't give you too much trouble.

Hey @ReverseRaven sorry for the delayed response and thanks for the bug report. I've been away playing other games for a while.

To be honest it's not surprising that there's an issue with Infiltrate Defenders, the mechanism behind that siege project is pretty janky and I never tested it in a defensive siege. The whole thing probably needs a rework.

I'll try to find a way to fix it when I get back into modding for the next update but I can't make any promises. I'll also add it to the known issues.

To add to my previous comment, I can confirm that the Infiltrate Defenders DOES work when a siege proceeds normally with you attacking into the besieged enemy. It's just when they come out to fight you that it doesn't.

Heya ScienceFictionGuy. Been playing this mod for a long time because it really did bring back the flavor of the Rogue from AoW3 and I really love the options this mod provides for tactical combat.

That being said, and apologies because this is kind of a double post from bug reports (I wasn't sure if you'd seen it), I can't seem to get Infiltrate Defenders to work. I saw the known issue but the siege project just doesn't seem to work. The icon never shows up and neither do the units it's supposed to summon. The thing is, I've only been able to test it in battles where the AI decides to attack me while I'm laying siege and I don't know if that factors into it at all.

Mostly since the AI always tries to hit me because numerically it has better forces than I do.

Ah yeah, just seeing the update.

Thanks and keep up the good work :)

@CrUsHeR

Thanks for catching that! Yes there's a property that needs to be set for which skills should be unlocked at the start of the game and it's currently set for too many skills, it should only be set for the tactical spell. I'll release an update shortly to fix it.

Just started playing again with your mod, and found all the changes like the Shadow Stalkers - very nice :)


One problem though - when starting with the Tome of Whispers, it is possible to roll absolutely no combat spells at game start, and getting stuff like the siege project or army vision spell instead.

So i guess there needs to be some property set for certain spells to not appear in the initial spell selection.

Hi @GriotB

It sounds like you are still running on the previous version of this mod. The problem you are describing was introduced by the Giant Kings patch and it is fixed in the mod update released on March 23rd.

You may need to unsubscribe and resubscribe to force the workshop to update. If that doesn't work try deleting the mod folder and redownload.

Hello,

Thank you for all that you have done. i created a phenomenal culture with these tomes and your mod. Since the Giants King DLC, I have had crashes when the unites (cuthroat, temptress...) are visible on screen. In the map and in encyclopedia. When you have time, could you please address this? Thank you once again!

I see, thanks for your input. While I don't agree with everything you say but I understand. You have been doing a great job regardless and I'm looking forward to anything else you are planning on doing in the AoW4 modding scene.

My idea for a tier 4 Rogue Tome was going to be something different; a "Spellthief" tome based around neutralizing enemy enchantments and spells and stealing their buffs. But as luck would have it the developers had very similar ideas in mind and they covered these themes with the Tome of Severing and Tome of Corruption.

So with all that put together I just don't think a Tier 4 rogue tome is necessary anymore. All of the themes I had thought about expanding are represented already. Shadow affinity is really kind of blessed with how many options it has at Tier 4.

In addition to Oblivion and Severing I also quite like Tome of Calamity. The Accursed Trickster is a fun addition to a rogue-themed army.

Hi @Nexious!

A Tier 4 Rogue tome is definitely something I've thought about in the past but I've ultimately decided against it for several reasons.

I ruled out making a darkness-themed Tier 4 tome because in my mind this role is already taken by the Tome of Oblivion. My Tome of Darkness was specifically designed for Tier 3 to avoid upstaging it. (Likewise I made the Shadow Stalker a tier 3 unit to respect the Living Fog's role as the ultimate shadow unit)

I also don't think there's much more that can be done mechanically with another Darkness-themed Tome that hasn't already been covered. At least not with the tools I have access to. More Blind or Flanking synergy would be overkill. I tried several ways of implementing stealth mechanics in AoW4's tactical combat but none of them really worked to my liking. And I don't feel the need for more shadow transformations either. Living Shadows, Gloomstriders and Umbral Flesh fill this role well enough already.

It's great that you keep the mod updated and functioning but I have a suggestion for you if you are willing. How about adding a tier 4 tome in the rogue/darkness lineup?

I really want to see the major transformation you had in earlier versions of this mod again cause I thought it was really cool to have a another shadow affinity transformation thats not undead. Basicly making your race becoming one with the shadows and if possible perhaps making some kind of stealth mechanic in combat but at the very least make further uses of blind and flanking.
Perhaps some kind of t5 skrimisher-type unit?

Something you would be willing to think about? :)

Ogre patch (open beta) update is complete, details can be found under change notes. You might need to un-sub and re-sub to force the mod to update to the most recent version.

If you find any issues I missed please let me know.

Hi everyone. If you're on the Ogre Patch Open Beta be warned that there was a modularity change introduced in this patch that can cause a drastic fps drop for some of the units in this mod when they are viewed in the encyclopedia and in game. It affects the Cutthroat, Scoundrel and Succubus for this mod.

A fix will be coming eventually, sorry for the inconvenience.

@Shadow_Volkamon and @choongkenzu

Try deleting the mod folder and reinstalling a fresh copy of the mod. (Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\1669000\2989849682)

This is most likely being caused by the rogue backup .zip file which is mentioned under known issues. The old version of this mod had a Tome_Shades.rpk, which ended up being the same filename that the devs used for the DLC Tome of Shades.

This was replaced by the new Tome of Darkness with a different .rpk filename when WoW was released. But if you have the older version's mod .rpk is somewhere in the mod folder either because it failed to update or because of the backup file then then this will overwrite the DLC tome.

Apparently as of the last DLC update this mod's tomes conflict with the Tome of Shades, replacing it with a copy of the Tome of Darkness.

After the installation, a book disappeared

Such a great tomes! Wonderful work.

Is there any chance that you'll also make an Astral+Order themed tomes some day?

Hey, what do you know, that fixed the problem! Thanks for your help! :)

@criticalofthedawn

Just ran some tests with Culture Based Tome units and was not able to replicate your problem. It does not modify the visual appearance of the Tome units from this mod but all of the CBT visuals for the base game tome units are applying and I don't get any crashing issues.

Maybe try manually deleting the workshop mod folder (Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\1669000\2989849682) and redownloading it? The only thing I can think of on my end that could maybe cause the problem you are describing is the .zip file issue mentioned in the Known Issues section.