Ah noted. Now that you mention the Succubus is actually using the same Seduce ability as the Nymph. It's been a while since I looked at them so I forgot.

Yeah, sorry about the confusion. I did notice later that the Nymph's seduce was able to do that also. I had not encountered Nymphs often enough to take notice do that.

Nexious is actually wrong, there are abilities which can Dominate heroes, such as the Nymph's Seduce and some Eldritch Sovereign abilities.

@Montegomery / @Nexious

Thanks for the bug reports, I will look into and fix the Shrouded Altar tooltip and Succubus Seduce ability for the next update.

@Montgomery

Exploit Weakness targets multiples of the same unit. For example if you cast it on a Gremlin it will affect all enemy Gremlins on the battlefield.

There isn't really a succinct way to communicate that without a whole paragraph so I just made sure to use different phrasing from "unit type" which refers to whether the unit is an animal/undead/celestial/etc.

(Nevermind about Nightfall, I'm a derp and forgot about the "unit must be standing alone" requirement.)

Two other bits of feedback/bug reporting:

* Nightfall sometimes only hits a single enemy when cast. It seems to function correctly when it repeats, but I haven't done a careful study.
* It's a bit ambiguous what "units of the same kind" means for Probe Weakness.

Wanted to thank you for the wonderful tomes, and also note one small issue.

The second of the Shrouded Altar's benefits states "+5 Research Post". I think it's supposed to say "+5 Knowledge".

You should offer these Tomes separately too for people who don't want to overload their tomes list. I'd love a standalone Tome of Vice for example.

Just noticed a big oversight because I don't think it is intended. The Succubus can use their "Seduce" ability on heroes/leaders which is really overpowered and no other mind control is able to do this for a reason.

Oh, no worries. Modding is a hobby and you do this for free. I understand perfectly. Thank you for looking into it and I hope it doesn't give you too much trouble.

Hey @ReverseRaven sorry for the delayed response and thanks for the bug report. I've been away playing other games for a while.

To be honest it's not surprising that there's an issue with Infiltrate Defenders, the mechanism behind that siege project is pretty janky and I never tested it in a defensive siege. The whole thing probably needs a rework.

I'll try to find a way to fix it when I get back into modding for the next update but I can't make any promises. I'll also add it to the known issues.

To add to my previous comment, I can confirm that the Infiltrate Defenders DOES work when a siege proceeds normally with you attacking into the besieged enemy. It's just when they come out to fight you that it doesn't.

Heya ScienceFictionGuy. Been playing this mod for a long time because it really did bring back the flavor of the Rogue from AoW3 and I really love the options this mod provides for tactical combat.

That being said, and apologies because this is kind of a double post from bug reports (I wasn't sure if you'd seen it), I can't seem to get Infiltrate Defenders to work. I saw the known issue but the siege project just doesn't seem to work. The icon never shows up and neither do the units it's supposed to summon. The thing is, I've only been able to test it in battles where the AI decides to attack me while I'm laying siege and I don't know if that factors into it at all.

Mostly since the AI always tries to hit me because numerically it has better forces than I do.

Ah yeah, just seeing the update.

Thanks and keep up the good work :)

@CrUsHeR

Thanks for catching that! Yes there's a property that needs to be set for which skills should be unlocked at the start of the game and it's currently set for too many skills, it should only be set for the tactical spell. I'll release an update shortly to fix it.

Just started playing again with your mod, and found all the changes like the Shadow Stalkers - very nice :)


One problem though - when starting with the Tome of Whispers, it is possible to roll absolutely no combat spells at game start, and getting stuff like the siege project or army vision spell instead.

So i guess there needs to be some property set for certain spells to not appear in the initial spell selection.

Hi @GriotB

It sounds like you are still running on the previous version of this mod. The problem you are describing was introduced by the Giant Kings patch and it is fixed in the mod update released on March 23rd.

You may need to unsubscribe and resubscribe to force the workshop to update. If that doesn't work try deleting the mod folder and redownload.

Hello,

Thank you for all that you have done. i created a phenomenal culture with these tomes and your mod. Since the Giants King DLC, I have had crashes when the unites (cuthroat, temptress...) are visible on screen. In the map and in encyclopedia. When you have time, could you please address this? Thank you once again!

I see, thanks for your input. While I don't agree with everything you say but I understand. You have been doing a great job regardless and I'm looking forward to anything else you are planning on doing in the AoW4 modding scene.

My idea for a tier 4 Rogue Tome was going to be something different; a "Spellthief" tome based around neutralizing enemy enchantments and spells and stealing their buffs. But as luck would have it the developers had very similar ideas in mind and they covered these themes with the Tome of Severing and Tome of Corruption.

So with all that put together I just don't think a Tier 4 rogue tome is necessary anymore. All of the themes I had thought about expanding are represented already. Shadow affinity is really kind of blessed with how many options it has at Tier 4.

In addition to Oblivion and Severing I also quite like Tome of Calamity. The Accursed Trickster is a fun addition to a rogue-themed army.

Hi @Nexious!

A Tier 4 Rogue tome is definitely something I've thought about in the past but I've ultimately decided against it for several reasons.

I ruled out making a darkness-themed Tier 4 tome because in my mind this role is already taken by the Tome of Oblivion. My Tome of Darkness was specifically designed for Tier 3 to avoid upstaging it. (Likewise I made the Shadow Stalker a tier 3 unit to respect the Living Fog's role as the ultimate shadow unit)

I also don't think there's much more that can be done mechanically with another Darkness-themed Tome that hasn't already been covered. At least not with the tools I have access to. More Blind or Flanking synergy would be overkill. I tried several ways of implementing stealth mechanics in AoW4's tactical combat but none of them really worked to my liking. And I don't feel the need for more shadow transformations either. Living Shadows, Gloomstriders and Umbral Flesh fill this role well enough already.

It's great that you keep the mod updated and functioning but I have a suggestion for you if you are willing. How about adding a tier 4 tome in the rogue/darkness lineup?

I really want to see the major transformation you had in earlier versions of this mod again cause I thought it was really cool to have a another shadow affinity transformation thats not undead. Basicly making your race becoming one with the shadows and if possible perhaps making some kind of stealth mechanic in combat but at the very least make further uses of blind and flanking.
Perhaps some kind of t5 skrimisher-type unit?

Something you would be willing to think about? :)

Ogre patch (open beta) update is complete, details can be found under change notes. You might need to un-sub and re-sub to force the mod to update to the most recent version.

If you find any issues I missed please let me know.

Hi everyone. If you're on the Ogre Patch Open Beta be warned that there was a modularity change introduced in this patch that can cause a drastic fps drop for some of the units in this mod when they are viewed in the encyclopedia and in game. It affects the Cutthroat, Scoundrel and Succubus for this mod.

A fix will be coming eventually, sorry for the inconvenience.

@Shadow_Volkamon and @choongkenzu

Try deleting the mod folder and reinstalling a fresh copy of the mod. (Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\1669000\2989849682)

This is most likely being caused by the rogue backup .zip file which is mentioned under known issues. The old version of this mod had a Tome_Shades.rpk, which ended up being the same filename that the devs used for the DLC Tome of Shades.

This was replaced by the new Tome of Darkness with a different .rpk filename when WoW was released. But if you have the older version's mod .rpk is somewhere in the mod folder either because it failed to update or because of the backup file then then this will overwrite the DLC tome.

Apparently as of the last DLC update this mod's tomes conflict with the Tome of Shades, replacing it with a copy of the Tome of Darkness.

After the installation, a book disappeared

Such a great tomes! Wonderful work.

Is there any chance that you'll also make an Astral+Order themed tomes some day?

Hey, what do you know, that fixed the problem! Thanks for your help! :)

@criticalofthedawn

Just ran some tests with Culture Based Tome units and was not able to replicate your problem. It does not modify the visual appearance of the Tome units from this mod but all of the CBT visuals for the base game tome units are applying and I don't get any crashing issues.

Maybe try manually deleting the workshop mod folder (Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\1669000\2989849682) and redownloading it? The only thing I can think of on my end that could maybe cause the problem you are describing is the .zip file issue mentioned in the Known Issues section.

OH MY! The Shadow Stalker looks like an entirely new unit. This what I am looking for something more new and fresh.

Since either the Tiger 1.2 patch or the last mod update, the game hangs prior to the main menu and is unplayable if both this mod and the Culture Based Tome Units mod are active in the same playset. I've disabled all but those two mods to verify they are the ones causing the issue. I am guessing the issue is probably on this mod's side, as CBTU is working fine with the others I have installed.

Just uploaded a small follow-up update. This replaces the model for the Cutthroat unit, and adds a new "Scoundrel" unit to the Black Market which uses the old Cutthroat model.

Should be compatible with any ongoing games.

Loving everything about this tome, from its design, to its function, to the niche it fills in the game <3

@skaz88

They did use to be elementals in the previous version of this mod. I decided to switch them over to Ethereal in this version instead so that they match the Living Fog, since they are meant to be related to each other.

Out of curiousity, Why aren't the Lesser Shadow Stalker and Shadow Stalker tagged as Elementals?

@Merethys

No worries this is an understandable question. This happened because of lack of foresight on my part. I should have looked more closely at the DLC previews!

You see Cutthroats used to evolve into Assassins in the previous version of this mod. The Assasin unit was removed in this version because of the addition of the Shade unit in the DLC. (They fill the same role and the Shade is an upgrade over the Assassin both mechanically and visually)

So my plan for the Cutthroats was to change it to evolve into Shades instead. Unfortunately I didn't realize until the day the DLC came out that Shades are a female unit.

So yea, it doesn't really make sense but I'm sort of stuck with it for the time being.

I'm looking into remaking the Cutthroat's modularity so that I can swap it to female but this will take time, and I didn't want to delay the update any further since this is only a visual issue and does not affect gameplay.

@Merethys my friend that's one of those inner thoughts that shouldn't be said out loud, no "good" awnser in any way.

On the bright side, free tier III unit from just a tier I tome, always a plus on my book.

Is it intentional that male cutthroats evolve into female shades?

Am I being transphobic by asking this question? I hope not.

@Nexious

1) Shadow/Chaos felt more appropriate to me considering the themes and mechanics of the Tome of Whispers and Vice:
- The general theme of gaining gold through evil deeds like stealing and looting is a core chaos motif.
- The units: bandits are naturally chaos-aligned and the Succubus is an Infernal Fiend.
- The Wave of Panic spell and various abilities that inflict random negative status; effects also relate to chaos.

2) For a hybrid-affinity archetype I like the idea of having a shared primary affinity and some variety in secondary affinities. I was partially inspired by how the affinities were set up for the four "Dreadnought" Tomes added in Empires and Ashes.

This does leave the Tome of Darkness as feeling out of place as a pure shadow tome, but I just could not rationalize giving it any other affinity. In some ways it feels more like a part of the Doomherald>Oblivion tome line instead of a "Rogue" tome now.

Why the change to be partial chaos though? If anything materium would be in-line with the new tome of shades right?

Spoke to Cat-Lunatic on discord; the problem was caused by the backup .zip file that was included in the mod files for a short time in the 2.0 version. Deleting the file fixed the problem.

If you have the same issue you will need to do the same. There's more detailed instructions listed under the Known Issues section of the mod description.

Unfortunately there is no way for me to fix this problem from my end. The workshop doesn't remove the file when it updates even though it's removed from my mod files. You have to remove it manually to fix it.

For some reason it shows the Tome of Shades using the same appearance/stuff as the Tome of Darkness

Hell yeah one of my favorite tome mods is back and looks better than ever! Time to tinker with the underground ninja Faction I created when the DLC dropped.

Thanks!

Please note that this update will almost certainly break ongoing saved games using the previous version of this mod. One of my .rpk files needed to be renamed because it used the same filename as one of the DLC files, so there was no practical way for me to preserve compatibility with old saves.

Hi everyone! With the release of Ways of War the developers have finally added AoW4's first official Rogue tome, the Tome of Shades. In addition to sharing a name with one of the tomes added by this mod it also overlaps significantly with some of the mechanics and themes used in my tome designs. I can't abide redundancy, so I have decided to redesign this mod accordingly, removing content that has been made redundant by the official Tome of Shades and adding new content to replace it. I am calling this the "3.0" version of Cloak and Dagger Tomes.

I hope that this will be the last time such a drastic redesign is needed. I had originally intended to retire this mod when official Rogue content was added to AoW4, but with just one Tome added I don't feel that the archetype is sufficiently represented in the base game yet. Hopefully there will be more Rogue content added in a future expansion.

Glad to hear you intend to continue supporting this mod into the future. Of all tome mods I've dabbled with, this one remains a favorite of mine with how naturally it fits in with the base game's tomes. Thank you for your hard work! =)

@Nexious yes I want to rework this mod to fit around the new DLC Tome. I'm currently in the planning stages, hopefully will have enough time to finish by the release of the DLC.