I now have snake people. Mariliths to be precise.
However being 'Snake-person' they seem to lack the 'Shield' layer - they cannot equip shields Q_Q giant snakes with shield & spears. Is this a problem with vanilla expanded?

i like lamias

Reloading some saves and deliberately throwing my colonist into scythers, I've actually started to see a few bruises with more sample size. Maybe I'm just incredibly unlucky in my "real" save?

I should also mention the primary hearts should still be vital - I've seen snake-people with their primary heart destroyed still alive with 50% blood pumping. In a real snake, the secondary heart just helps pump blood down the length of the body, it can't exchange oxygen with the lungs like the primary heart, so losing the primary heart is absolutely fatal. Oh, and the tail (not snake body) seems useless (for animals too), so it's ironically better to just get it destroyed early so you have one less part that takes damage because it has low HP and doesn't seem like you can armor it so tails are easily destroyed sources of a lot of pain and bleeding. (A single stray friendly fire pistol shot blow the tail off my colonist in one go.)

I don't mean hit distribution, (and I understand why it's the bigger target,) I mean it hasn't seemed like armor was doing anything. I have a character hit five times in the snake body, all for full damage, and once in the torso and once in the head. The head is only bruised for 1 damage, the torso takes 4 damage in a bruise, and the snake body takes the full 12 damage every time with trooper or recon armor that cover everything but the head. (Also, snake stomach. Forgot to mention the snake stomach.) I went and reloaded a save from right before a fight with an armored gorgon, playing it several times in a row to try to get some documentation, however, and found the gorgon was reducing some shots to bruises, although that might be the robust fortified body... I'm trying again with some other saves with my colonist...

The snake body gets hit an absolute ton. About as much as the torso + arms together.

As you might expect from someone with several meters of giant snake tail as their 'lower' body, the snake part is the most likely thing to get hit by far.

That is also why it has so many hit points.

That said. The heart and liver in the snake part might benefit from a little bit of reduction in hit chance though.

If that's the case, I'm not seeing it in practice. (Well, I know that wearing pants increases heat/cold tolerance, but I just figured that was a limitation of how the game dealt with "equipment slots".) One of my original crashlanders has a serpent body from a custom race, and even putting aside how much more frequently the snake body part is targeted, I've never seen any evidence the armor is working on the snake body even when it's recon or marine armor that should provide good protection and cover the legs. It's almost a meme that any conflict she was part of wound up with her being the only one injured when she was the only medical passion until about year 3.5, so she was constantly treating herself and in the red specifically on the snake body (and usually the liver and second heart) even as hits to the torso were absorbed by armor.

@Beligerent Ziptie, Wraith_Magus
The snake part is considered covered by anything with the "Legs" tag for simplicity and compatibility's sake.

In other words; flak pants do actually cover the snake tail.

Forcing snake-tail specific apparel would most just serve to annoy people. Same deal with how giants can wear the same apparel a dwarf can.

...and how in RPGs like Diablo a male Barbarian and female demon hunter fits in the same armor.

Bruh Ive even tried adding the snake body region to armors using the character editor mod, but snake body isnt a region i can add to armors using that mod. This is so sad.Gonna have to rely on shields heavily. Armor nearly useless.

Currently, you can get the tough trait and robust gene or you can die. There's a bionic locamotive spine that makes the spine better-protected, but you have a totally unarmed massive body part that also happens to include vital organs like the liver. No armor is made to cover the snake body, but pawns will still insist on putting on flak pants if you don't specifically stop them.

The best advice I can give is to either go for specialist farsighted ranged attack snek squads, or use some of the Vanilla Expanded mods like armor expanded that lets you have a riot shield, as that blocks a lot of damage.

how can i armor the snake body? Its kinda a massive late game issue when my high tech soldiers can be one shot to the snake body but a fuckin arrow

I am going to correct my evaluation on the previous comment, swallowing something of worthwhile size gives very small continuous nutrition while they are inside, but it gives a bigger total nutrition once they are done digesting. It works. I'm able to survive without plants and cooking as a lone Gorgon who can swallow.

@Sapphira D (Dracovian)
I can't replicate the issue. You're going to have to provide a log. Preferably without other mods that might interfere.

@Sapphira D (Dracovian)
I don't think I've tested it on 1.6. I'll make a note to look into it when I sit down with the mods next. :)

If you got any errors to the log I'd suggest posting the logs and linking back here.

the swallow gene is bugged
for some reason after devouring someone it dissappears and never comes back and only shows regurgitate

Hello, just trying this out, I wanted to do a naked brutality start, single snake person surviving in the dangerous world, my character swallowed a rabbit but it did not give her any nutrition. Is this a bug or as intended? It should give nutrition.

The snake peaple are a purple square with a snake head. This is my modpack https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3512839026 , i also have alpha genes, alpha bees, alpha animals and alpha memes installed threw game files

I wouldn't say that the addermen raids are impossible to beat, but they are very hard to kill before at least some of them get within range, especially when they're naked. (And in my game, they have a nudist ideoligion..) They have a huge move speed bonus plus naked speed and ignore difficult terrain you might use like water to slow them down, plus they're small and therefore make a certain extra percentage of shots miss. Also, while devilstrand dusters are great IF you get hit in the torso, the problem is body part hit is random, and your whole body will take the 120% sticky acid burn if the game determines you were shot with acid in the pinky and aren't using acid-proof gloves, doing damage to your torso under that acid-proof duster a certain percentage of the time.

Baiting fire onto something expendable like a turret, mechanoid, or an animal you don't mind losing is really the best way of handling them. (Or just sending the snek tribes offerings so they're not hostile like I did... VIPER is still hostile, but they at least come in more reasonably-sized raids rather than floods of dozens or even triple digit numbers...) I've managed to start handling it, but I've had to completely rethink my defenses, and put more value on heat armor than piercing...

Not compatible with Vanilla extended make red errors

@Vien 'Quitonm, Wraith_Magus
It is available on 1.6 now. :)

@Hazardous
I'll bump up the raid value of the Addermen so the storyteller can't send as many of them.

They are meant to be dangerous little sneks, but perhaps not quite as dangerous as they've been for people. :)

@Rabbit Hex Echo Shard
That would be a little bit too much work. But I fully support someone else doing so if they wish to.

@Honeycomb
Only the snakeman faction really spams it (addermen). The VIPER faction sends less raiders and has a lot of other types of pawns.

Mechanoids (as Wrait_Magus said) are practically immune to it, while any armor with good heat values (devilstrand especially) resists it well.

The issue is usually when a pawn takes a big salvo to the face and end up drenched in acid. They might initially be fine, but end up taking a lot of damage before it goes away.

You can often also trick the snakes into acid spitting their own friends.

Finally, the snake tribe raids are kind of glass-cannons. Some have the acid, others a jump, but they end up walking through traps, or if you can actually lay down heavy fire on them they go down very fast.

Would you ever be interested in making a purely cosmetic version of this mod? I love the artwork and xenotype design, but want to avoid the abilities.

@He Hui - it counts as "heat damage," so there technically is a critical weakness to acid spray - mechanoids are (counter-intuitively) immune to acid. They spew their acid at the closest enemy as the very first thing they do, so simply putting a mechanoid up front to bait the acid spray and keeping your colonists out of the "splash zone" is a relatively reliable way to survive those. Just... expect the brave little agrihand to give its mechanical life for the cause after the snakes get to melee once they've disgorged their opening salvo.

Only thing preventing me from trying out this beautiful race is their acid spray.. seeing everyone else's experience just scares me!!!

RedMattis is still active, so it probably will be updated. I'm not sure how many rewrites 1.6 forces, and it may not be right away, but I'm sure it's going to be updated.

Praying this is going to be worked on for 1.6. I represent all snake people.

@RedMattis : About the acid problem, I've noticed something. You say sticky acid should only hit external parts. I wonder if it is meant to be the same for the web attack of feralisks in alpha animals - but I've lost many colonists to a direct hit to the brain, with no other damage, from those too. Maybe the function that should limit the damage to external organs (whether it comes from a mod or the core game) doesn't work as intended ?
And it is the opportunity for me to thank you for bloating my genes and xenotypes lists. /bow

Hi, the race doesn't have heads and tails, and when they appear on the map, a huge purple square appears, I don't use HAR, what should I do?

Yeah, I'll put another screenshot into the "sticky acid spray extreme damage" discussion, but if the idea was that this was just like the fire spew of impids, the impid's ability is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than the sticky acid spray, and impids are 70+ raid points each, so naked addermen really need to cost more like 100 since they're both significantly more damaging and significantly faster.

Meanwhile, for players trying to deal with it, since it basically counts as fire, mechanoids should (counter-intuitively) be completely immune to the acid, and it's better to have a devilstrand duster than anything that is supposed to provide more armor on the outer layer. If you have at least 70% heat resistance on one piece of clothing (and you aren't hit in the hand), it's probably not going to be a one-shot downing. (Although because these are burn wounds, you're still GUARANTEED to get infections.)

Acid spit could use a nerf. A slave just maimed two fighters who put him down quickly who got messed up bad by the acid debuff's DOT

Acid spit ability is stupidly op

Just had another run-in with sticky acid. The continuing burn damage hit the brain, causing permanent brain damage. (And this is a baseliner, so it's not something where odd body shapes are in play.) Whatever is supposed to be making damage external parts only clearly doesn't work.

I just had another VIPER raid ("right on top of you" type), and again, it's just suicidal to get within range of that acid spray. I sent out animals, instead. The results are that the acid is instant-killing many of their targets, mostly with brain damage (plus liver, kidney, and lung) from the acid spray that supposedly only damages exterior parts. A single spray inflicts as much as 120% acid build-up (and some of the ones that got two sprays hit 200%), and instantly killed a few of the VIPER agents from friendly fire. (The best defense is to just have them spray each other, it always results in downing...) Even the fully armored VIPER enemies are downed in one spray of acid (although the fact that typical flak jacket/vest/pants has like 20% heat armor and therefore usually means nothing helps) since I just close the doors and wait for the acid to burn them to downed.

This isn't what I experienced, and I was writing up a report after reloading the saves I'd kept, but this became so long it was ridiculous to put it into a chain of a half a dozen comments, so I made a discussion thread, instead.

@Zike
Shouldn't be quite that much of a hit under normal circumstance, but the next version should be faster since it injects the render cache into the pawn object for the most performance critical functions.

@Wraith_Magus
Sticky Acid deals a base damage of 20. 0% armour pen. Can only hit external parts.

The vanilla one deals 30 with 80% armor pen, and will happily deal damage to your brain & heart.

Sticky acid applies 3% severity per damage dealt, so you end up with 60% severity (it the pawn hit is normal-sized). At 60% severity you will take about 30 damage. So assuming the pawn took full damage (no armour) they would take 20+30 damage.

Basically, less effective against anything with heat armor (lack of armour pen), less direct damage for insta-downing, but much better for attrition.

Iirc. you can tend the acid buildup hediff to make it go away faster.

tryed delete HAR, it helped

Hello, need a help with a bug: pawn with snake snoot gene or bug head(from your another mod) have pink box(missing texture) instead of normal head, if i try to change xenotype with character editor, i get error message below
https://pastebin.com/xScbayiC

I'm getting drops in TPS whenever Adderman or Pythoman can be seen. A 50 or even 100 drop in some cases with just a few of them. Gets worse if there are a lot of them. Goes back to normal if I move the camera completely away from them or burn their corpses.

Not sure if this is happening just to these two since I have yet to encounter the others.

After playing it through, the 115% acid build-upped adderwoman actually survived the entire acid build up through the power of distributing damage to several different parts, although she took a grand total of 197% pain from it (plus 21% pain from a wolf bite), and the acid burned her entire tail off. On the other hand, there were at least four snake-people that died upon being downed from pain from the acid splash and still had 70% acid build-up to try to survive after that. Depending on the part burned, they do 9%-20% pain each, so downing by pain is inevitable from even "splash damage" that only causes 40% or so acid build-up. One acid spray managed to kill one ally with 105% acid build-up through pain downing, do 115% acid build-up on another that downed her, and then also hit and killed the wolf he was actually aiming at. So, basically, one sticky acid spray eliminated three creatures, even if two were friendly fire.

Further looking over the downed addermen, one took 87% pain and was downed from the IMMEDIATE damage of an acid spray friendly fire trying to attack one of my animals. That is, this is an AoE one-shot teamkill that also does another 70 damage over time afterwards. This "sticky acid spray" is WAY more powerful than the vanilla game's.

Looking at some of the downed addermen, they're at something like 115% acid build-up and have 7 acid burns of between 6 and 13 damage from getting hit by ONE other adderman's acid spray. Every 10% acid build-up seems to do another 7-ish points of damage over time, so that's over 100 damage to various body parts from a single attack. This wouldn't be so bad if you weren't so frequently outnumbered at even moderate wealth, (I had a raid of 9 of these snake tribals within the first year of the game,) AND they have a high speed AND small size so they're harder to shoot down before they get in range, AND their AoE attacks basically ignore cover. Baiting them into spraying each other by sending out sacrificial animals a couple at a time or letting them make your turrets explode in melee are some of the only good methods of keeping my colonists safe.

Also, I have to say I think you're really undervaluing the combat power of addermen. I just had a raid with 26 tribal snakepeople, including 15 addermen against a base with 5 combat-capable colonists, and basically only cheesing the AI made it possible for me to survive. (Fortunately, they're dumb enough to slather each other in acid and kill one another as they rush a mini-turret then stand there when the things explode...) Judging by the raid points, addermen only have a raid point cost of about 50? Meanwhile, while baseliner tribals all have a raid cost of like 45, the impid ones all have a cost of something like 75 just because of their fire spew. This custom sticky acid spray seems SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous than the fire spew, honestly, as I've had colonists downed from the continuous damage of even one acid spray, and the blast is wide enough you can't really dodge it. (It does seem to reduce the amount of acid you take, though.)

Something I've noticed with a lot of your Big and Small stuff is that everyone starts out hungry. Snake body genes give +3 total nutrition "capacity," but everyone who is spawned seems to spawn with .8 nutrition. This means that any new pawn spawns at something like 20% food need, which in turn means any time I have a raid, all the enemy snake-people start off starving and have to immediately pull out whatever food they have. This compounds with larger body types like sirens or broodmothers if they're there.

Tail seems like a weakspot, is there armor for it?

A wild female pythonman just harvested all my rice and didn't eat anything.

@AOITAKA
Glad you like it. :)

The body position is set via the "bodyPosOffset" on the "BS_Naga_Race".

In: Big and Small Framework\1.5\SimplyRaces\Defs\Races\LamiaBody\RaceTracker_Lamia.xml

@red palm
Yeah, swallowing anything that can fight back is a risky thing to do.

@Alex
I think this was solved quite awhile ago. Try verifying files if you sill have issues with that.

@Kliff
If you're getting an error then please link to a hugslog or the like. No way of knowing what goes wrong otherwise.

Hi, thank you for your great mods ! May I ask you how to adjust the body position? I am using [NL] Realistic Body and I can see pawn's feet pass through his snake body.

I love this mod! Thank you for your hard work! I'm a little dumb my snake lady ate a rat and it scratched her stomach really hard lmao guess I should feed her incapacitated creatures

@redmattis Tried verifying everything, theyre still headless oTL

When I edit the head to some standard ones, the render returns to normal.