Evasion in Cold Waters

Describing methods for evasion in the submarine game Cold Waters. The primary focus is on what do once weapons are near you. Discussions include defenses like the MOSS, noisemaker and knuckles. Practical methods are discussed including "Skipping the line".

Introduction

Evasion methods for Cold Waters

or

Disco isn't dead, Disco is life!

Dancing disco with your submarine in Cold Waters is how you stay alive. Stealth is the creed of the submariner. In a war there are times they enemy will get one in at you. What we discuss here will turn you into a John Travolta of the seas with your Ah ha ha ha staying alive.

We'll first mention that part of your job as submarine commander in Cold Waters is to establish a situation of advantage while avoiding a disadvantage. You should constantly be in a cycle of evaluating the possible risks versus what your tasks are. That needed to be said. We will make some mention at avoiding dangerous situations. Our focus in this guide is what to do when the enemy has put shots toward you.

Evading anti-submarine missiles

Evading anti-submarine missiles

When an enemy fires an anti-submarine missile they will take time to fly to you. If you know you are going to get that sort of attention then as soon as possible you start busting out your moves. For example before firing your own missiles remember the missile man's mantra is: never fire missiles without an exit plan.


When you fire I've talked about firing missiles and the importance of an exit plan in another guide. Full write up is here:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=956445120

It does basicaly apply to any time the enemy has fired though air borne sub killers. Even though the missiles are very fast they do take time to get to you. Once the missile is launched they have no further control over it so it can't be sent to a new drop point. The torps on those missiles are small so have shorter guidance and blessedly shorter fuel supply.

Use the time of flight for incoming missiles to be elsewhere! Seriously! Forget avoiding cavitation! Fast! Fast! Fast! Full and flank speeds. Getting deep is helpful but get fast right away whatever the depth and cativation.

Turn your course at least 90 degrees if not 135 or 180. You want to be as far as possible from the missile drop point. If you have the time to get enough distance you will be outside their seek range. They will spin around like tops searching where you were going not were you are.

Do the dog leg slide

Do the dog leg slide

It is a common doctrine on detecting an incoming torpedo to fire a torpedo down it's path. Knowing this you can attempt to use your wire guided torpedoes to go on a 'dog leg' to the side before attacking. This is talked about in more detail in this guide:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=960438075

The idea being that enemy torpedoes have only so much width of the ocean they can search. If you aren't in it you are fine.

No body here but the fish

No body here but the fish

If the enemy got their shot off first and are still far away it is possible to get out of their torpedo search area. Look at the line between them and where you would soon be. Get fast and away from that line. If you were already going to one relative side realize that he probably already shot his torpedoe to go that way. So you need to switch around, at high speed, to clear the search zone.

Now if that was an non-wire torpedo there is nothing he can do to adjust its aim. If it is a wire torpedo he will probably hear your high speed and adjust it. Still getting farther away burns up torpedo fuel.

Your goal is shifting positions is to leave the torpedo, aka the "fish", in a lonely existance.

Shoot me, shoot you.

Shoot me, shoot you.

In Cold Waters if your campaign speed was 20 kts and you encounter subs chances are you are already in each other's kill zones. If a contact pings you with active sonar and the Signature settings Snsr Cmp suggest 10 or more on the active (or passive) sensors assume he has your position. You will likely here a soft woosh of his distant firing. The tactical map may blink a torpedo. That is the loud sounds of a torpedo launch.

Most of the time send one back at him. For submarines set it to active [the left button to a dot and rings like o))) ] and down (on the right button) to search for subs. I usually leave the middle button on straight. Your evasion may cut the wire. The point is to kill him before he puts even more in the water and to force him to cut his own wire (if any).

The 10 kyd Gamble

The 10 kyd Gamble

or

Charge of the escorts

First off realize that an escort at 10,000 yards or less is an immediate threat to your boat.

If escorts are charging down on you the kill zone is 6,000 yards for the RBU-6,000. In the 1980s campaign most ocean going escorts have it. If it gets to this range you will be peppered every so often with rocket launched depth charges. Better to make that escort sunk or damaged before that. So lets look at using torpedos and missiles.

Yet, you might stop him with a torpedo. Well the torpedo does lets say 50 knots and the escort 30 knots. Those aren't exact and they will vary by equipment. Those are easier numbers for this example. You own sub let's assume it does either 30 (Los Angeles) or 25 (Stugeon). (An LA can go a little faster, again its a simpler number for the example).
Converting knots to yards/second
50 = 28.1
30 = 16.9
25 = 14.1

A 50 knt torpedo needs 213.5 seconds to travel 6,000 yards. In that time a 30 knot escort/sub goes
3,608 and 25 knt sub 3,010 yards. If you are standing still with a small margin of distance you must fire the torpedo while the enemy escort is 10,000 yards away. If not then he may get his RBU-6,000 shot off at you before being hit.

Missiles need time to arm and that is 8,000 yards. If an escort is charging he might cover 500-1,000 yards before the missile get to arm. So the narrow range is 8,000 to 9,000 yards to defend with a missile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon_(missile)
A harpoon ~537 mph travels 262 yds per second for about 30 to go 8,000 yards to the minimum arming time. An escort at 30 knots in 30 seconds covers around 507 yards.

So if an escort is between 10,000 yards and 8,500 you have a chance to sink them with harpoon missiles before they fire the RBU-6000 but not with torpedoes. That assumes you are already near the surface (200 ft) and slow 5 kts. If you aren't the zone of harpoon yes torp no is more like 9,000 to 10,000 yards.

Those examples assume you are standing still. If instead you have a 25 kt boat sailing away from a 30 knot escort then it will only gain about 600 yards in the time it takes a 50 knt torpedo to travel 6,000 yards.

So between 9,000 and 6,600 yards a harpoon missile won't work but if you quickly drive the other way a torpedo might stop the escort.

This also means that an escort inside 6,600 yards will get an RBU-6000 shot off at you no matter what new attack you launch. If you have an escort closing to that range and already have a wire controlled torpedo in the water steer the torp for him and run your sub away. Keeping the wire is optional as to keep it you would have to steer other than right away from the enemy escort.

Defense: The MOSS

Defense: The MOSS

The MOSS is a MObile Submarine Simulator or decoy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_submarine_simulator

For the sense of sound, as in sonar, it appears to be a sub. Enemy weapons will tend to go after it rather than you. However, as there really is not much to hit the enemy weapon will fly past the MOSS then start looking around. If you are still nearby the weapon can find you again. So if you can fire a MOSS and head the opposite the direction quickly. If there is enough distance the weapons will find the MOSS a second time, then by the time they cross it again you will be even farther away.

When I fire a lot of missiles, such as doing a TLAM mission, I like to make the first tube #1 reload a MOSS (or have a MOSS already loaded). In the event that I don't clear my launch area or the enemy got some lucky drops or helicopters drop on me I have the MOSS to help.

With a little practice most subs you drive in Cold Waters can evade one torpedo using noisemakers and knuckles. Two more get really tricky. The problem is that with multiple torpedos you can only point your tail at one of them at a time.

I had one case where I was dodging two effectively when suddenly one went right and one left. This meant in a few seconds they were going to come in at 180 degrees apart and no way I could noise/knuckle that. I fired my loaded MOSS and it saved my boat.

For Cold Waters Campaigns I recommend a standard load of 3 MOSS. I would rather bring my boat back alive with an extra MOSS or two on board then to have gone onto eternal patrol. For a TLAM situation plan on part of those 3 MOSS standard as being useing druing your 8+ TLAM missile launch. Maybe you don't need them but plan on it.

An agressive use of the MOSS exists by sending it toward enemy contacts. There is a chance that weapons after passing the MOSS will acquire them. Which also means they are chasing something other than you. There have been reports of gamers finishing missions with MOSS redirects. So if all else seems equal send a MOSS as a parting gift.

Defense: Noisemakers and Knuckles

Defense: Noisemakers and Knuckles

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=974387450


A noisemaker is a device that merrily makes bubbles. The happy elves or whatever inside will do this for a good while. A knuckle is made by hard rudder swaps creating bubbles. In essence knuckles are making cavitation your friend.

To make the knuckle be at max rudder one way with the boat fully tilted. That tilt of the boat matters. Then swap rudder to the other side. As the boat rocks the tilt a knuckle will appear. That is if you are going fast in near or at cativation conditions.

If you have trouble making knuckles remember it is similiar to cativation. Get shallower. For a 25 knot Sturgeon knuckle making was reliable around 400 ft but troublesome at 600 ft or deeper. Look at it this way: If you close to having or are having the bubbling stream of cativation off your properllor then you can make knuckles. Sure the enemy can hear you. What's the worst they can do? Send a torpedo to kill you like the one that is already here? Better to deal with the current house guest.

How does this work? Both noisemakers and short lived knuckles are all about the bubbles. To passive sonar the pop, pop, poppity pop clouds the other sounds. For active sonar the bubbles equate to a zillion curved surfaces and less dense material creating a bizarre echo affect. Imagine someone sneaking around you house putting their hear to a key hole to listen. Then you blast an air horn from the other side. BLLAAAARRRR. The torpedo doesn't like it either. So it will steer away.

To make use of noisemakers and knuckles you will need to steer so that the torpedo is behind you. Imagine that. Running away from something trying to kill you. Occasional side attacks may be deflected but it is risky.

If you need a knuckle and can't make it drop a noisemaker. This may be the only way you can get up to high speed if taken by surprise.

It will take a bit of practice but when the torpedo is 1-3 sub lengths away make a knuckle.

The torpedo will usually swing out left or right. Sometimes there is a delay or maybe it thinks to just go straight.

When the torpedo turns switch your turn to keep your aft pointing at it. With just one torpedo its just a matter of endurance matching. Your personal endurance versus its fuel. You can keep on knuckles and noisemakers until it runs. Missile launched torpedoes don't last to long. It is the sub and ship launched torpedoes that take forever.

So far we have talked about horizontal evasion. Vertical is tricky so we'll put it in its own section about "Skipping the line".

Evasion Flowers

Evasion Flowers

As you evade with using knuckles and noisemakers there is tendency for the attcking weapon to choose mostly one side to turn for a few in a row. As this carries on the path marker starts to look like the petals of a flower. The evasion flower as I call it.

Another thing that is happening is your boat is constantly being forced to mostly turn one direction.

If you keep going that way what is there? Will it take you into a several more weapons?

With skill and luck you might be able to make a knuckle at a slightly different time to bait the chasing weapon to use the other turn for a while. The other option is to risk "skipping the line". That's where you cross over/under the torpeoes path. We'll discuss that below.

Skipping the line

Skipping the line

or

Vertical Evasion

Horizontal evasion with knuckles and noisemakers is your primary, most used and most reliable means of torpedo evasion.

Sometimes the torp is coming in straight despite the knuckle.

Sometimes you are caught by surprise.

What then?

Skip the line.

Skip the line means to drive your submarine over, or under, the path of the torpedo. It is very risky but better to have a chance to live then a deadly impact. You'll will remember skipping the line as the time your guts tightened up in knots. Good time to hit F12 for a screenshot too.

A Cold Waters submarine on max planes and max bouyancy can often change its depth faster than the torpedo chasing it. This is in part that a torpedo is chasing your tail but trying to hit your side. There is a narrow margin where you can "skip the line".

As soon as the torpedo has passed you reverse your planes and bouyancy to get back to your preferred depth.

One thing to consider is that planes control the angle of your boat. Thus there will be times in skipping the line where you need to zero or swap the planes to avoid an impact part way along your sub. Yes, the torpedoes can get that close. Part of them not going off may be the knuckle/noisemaker stunning affect is still in play. However, if a stunned torpedo hit your side it is still likely to explode.

Screenshots of Skipping the Line

Skipping the line with multiple torpedoes
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=974385377

Another skipping the line multiple
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=974388586

Skipping the line downward
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=974385684

Going the distance

Going the distance

Those torpedoes chasing you are going to keep going somewhere until they run out of fuel.

Evasion against a seeking torpedo isn't a one time thing. Its about going the distance.

If you just evaded it expect it to re-acquire you.

Start your defensive turn to put aft toward the nearest threat.

Only when you see it spiralling around and around well behind you or driving a few 1,000 yards away can you assume evasion is complete.

Until then... go the distance.

Get some distance to proove it has given up.

Loving 400 ft

Loving 400 ft

When I'm evading I like to go to 400 ft. At this depth I can skip the line upward if Im near a coast line. In the ocean I can skip upward or downward. Plus at 400 ft the cativation affect is good for knuckles.

When evasion is no longer needed I can slow and very quickly be below cativation speeds. This means I go quiet to the enemy before they might make another attack. Gives me a chance to plan my own counter attack.

At 400 ft if I get out of evasion and want to fire missiles, say finish a TLAM launch, its not far to go to get to 200 ft at 5 knts to do the launch. After the launch I can get quickly back to 400 ft or deeper for my exit plan.

If you do get hit the amount of flooding Cold Waters computes takes your depth into account. Even if the reactor knocked out you might rush to climb to 200 ft or shallower to take the pressure off. Even if the speed runs out it will have helped. At the shallower depth the flooding gets controlled and repairs made. If I was 600 ft or deeper at the time of damage the flooding is faster and I might lose both speed and bouyancy affects before being shallow enough to control the flooding.

Love me that 400 ft.

The dancing conclusion

Now that you have learned of the defenses in Cold Waters you can look on your evasion as a disco dancing. A wild and crazy expression of the will to live. A submarine routine is silence but when you have to dance: dance like its disco.

Ah ha ha ha staying alive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa9n7GirhsI

In service to the community,

Brygun

[Turbomunky]

When evading vertically, pay attention to what default depth the torp returns to when it loses you. Stay away from that depth. It's too easy to be re-acquired at quite a distance if you're on the same plane.

[Brygun]

Short answer yes. Middle answer that is the basics that if you are (or near) cavitating it is easier to make knuckles as both are about the formation of bubbles.

I haven't run scientific tests in game as to how much rudder or speed differences there are.

[kschang77]

So while you're cavitating it takes less rudder movement and/or lower speed to knuckle?

[Brygun]

Cavitation is the formation of air bubbles. The propeller spinning creates motion. When the motion is high compared to the density of water the water can't keep and bubbles appear. The bubbles soon "pop" as they pressure rebalances. This creates a noise.
Normally in silent evasion you wish to avoid cavitation as they can here you and fire on you.
In active evasion cavitation or near-cavitation means the sudden turns are that much easier to make the really loud bubble noises of a "knuckle"

[kschang77]

Cavitation is good for knuckles? Can you explain that?

[Peanut Arbuckle]

Fantastic guide, mate. Great job, much appreciated!

[eevee gaming]

When Skipping the Line I like to also turn toward the attacking weapon to close the range faster, thus giving it less time to match my depth. This seems to improve my success rate compared to what you implied.

I find that knuckling as fast as you can usually works against huge swarms of torpedoes and naturally trends toward them grouping up behind you, though usually 2 or 3 end up leading the pack and threatening occasional side attacks. Given, I play on Realistic and 1:1 scale, so your experience may be different depending on what settings you use.

ASW rockets also take time to reach the target, so varying speed, depth, and especially course can somewhat help evasion. If you are good at Skipping the Line, doing so repeatedly—deliberately seeking out chances to do so and taking them—can be very beneficial if you are being attacked by torpedoes and ASW rockets simultaneously, especially if you turn.

Against aerial depth charges my best advice is to not piss off a MPA.

[a62443166]

I prefer Eurobeat when dodging torpedoes.

[alittleoldman]

Thanks. Useful guide.

[KKoberstine]

Although the maneuver may be a little scary when you first attempt it (the torpedo passes within a few yards of the sub and would probably magnetically detonate in real life), it works.