Help a newbie

[Downward Concept]

Hey! I'm new to barter, but rarely traded before that anyway.
No offers are coming my way and mine are never countered except for one time.
Am I lowballing that hard? I tryto be fair, wishlist for wishlist, but keep some space upwards so I'm not in a position where a counter makes me overpa immediately.
I have to do something wrong, I assume.
barter.vg/u/1d66/o/
Thanks in advance.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Downward Concept:

Am I lowballing that hard?

TBH, yes indeed :-)

But it happens to all newcomers, don't worry. Unfortunately not many traders have much patience with newcomers, since they typically make you waste a lot of time.

Also, every trader have their own criteria to value games, so there's no one-size-fits-all solution.

As a friendly advice, try to start small. Low tier bundled for low tier bundled games 1:1 is a good way to go at first.

You may find some other tips here to get you started here.

Welcome again and happy trading!

[PolyHertz]

The most common ways to determine value are normally one or more of these (with a combination of 1 and 2 being by far the most common):


1. Have/want ratio (the less people have them vs want them the more valuable)

2. From most to least valuable; Unbundled > Humble Monthly bundled / Humble Tier 3 bundled / high-priced bundles > Humble BTA > regular bundled.

3. G2A prices (unless it's for a delisted game, I'd avoid anyone who openly uses unauthorized key resellers)

4. isthereanydeal "historical low" price.

5. Actual store price.


For example: https://barter.vg/u/1d66/o/986693/
In that trade, Shovel Knight is absurdly valuable due to almost no one having it, but TONS of people wanting it. Your trade request there was almost insulting (and the only reason it wasn't is because your Castle of Illusion is a delisted game and thus will be continuously rising in value over the next few years, but its not that valuable just yet ).

On the other hand this was a very fair trade: https://barter.vg/u/1d66/o/989773/
Mother Russia Bleeds isn't quite as valuable as Firewatch, but it's somewhat close (being owned by almost no one while still having a ton of people who want it), but Sheltered makes up the difference. You were just unlucky that he didn't want MRB very much at the time.

Of the two trades you have that are pending, this one is almost guaranteed to fail: https://barter.vg/u/1d66/o/1004793/
While as this one might actually be successful due to him being an inexperienced user: https://barter.vg/u/1d66/o/1004609/


Anyhow, hope that helps! Happy trading.

[Downward Concept]

First off, thanks a lot for the elaborate answers, guys! You don't find help like that in forums anymore.

Originally posted by r6d2 🐶:

Originally posted by Downward Concept:

Am I lowballing that hard?

TBH, yes indeed :-)

Well, at least I'm not trying to, but having that knowledge I can make better offers from now on. I missed one thing in your tradiquette (thanks a lot for creating and linking it).
Can I just send offers to people after they declined or is it considered annoying? I'm running out of people to send offers to tbh. :D

Originally posted by PolyHertz:

1. Have/want ratio (the less people have them vs want them the more valuable)

I was familiar with most methods, but that have/want ratio is news to me, so thanks a lot for that! Will take that into account from now on.

Thanks for looking through my offers and giving some examples! This give me some perspective on what to do next.

One question though: How would you value The Culling? I ranked it like you as equal to a HB monthly game and thus looked for people that have HB monthlies wishlisted, but apparently that's too low.

[PolyHertz]

Originally posted by Downward Concept:

One question though: How would you value The Culling? I ranked it like you as equal to a HB monthly game and thus looked for people that have HB monthlies wishlisted, but apparently that's too low.

For the vast majority of users on barter, have/want ratio is the most important factor in determining a games value, everything else is secondary. For instance; If you try and trade a game to someone where the H/W ratio is the same, but your game was bundled while theirs wasn't, there's a 50/50 chance they will turn down the offer primarily because of it. But if both of your games are HB monthlies and yours has a much worse H/W ratio you're much more likely to have your trade offer declined.

The Culling has about the same level of 'bundle value' as a monthly, but the have/want ratio should also be very close if you want to be sure it's going to be a fair / successful trade.

[Downward Concept]

Originally posted by PolyHertz:

Originally posted by Downward Concept:

One question though: How would you value The Culling? I ranked it like you as equal to a HB monthly game and thus looked for people that have HB monthlies wishlisted, but apparently that's too low.

For the vast majority of users on barter, have/want ratio is the most important factor in determining a games value, everything else is secondary. For instance; If you try and trade a game to someone where the H/W ratio is the same, but your game was bundled while theirs wasn't, there's a 50/50 chance they will turn down the offer primarily because of it. But if both of your games are HB monthlies and yours has a much worse H/W ratio you're much more likely to have your trade offer declined.

The Culling has about the same level of 'bundle value' as a monthly, but the have/want ratio should also be very close if you want to be sure it's going to be a fair / successful trade.

Thanks again! Is there an easy way of getting the have/want ratio or do I need to sum the amount of wishlists to people that own it or have it for trade?

[PolyHertz]

Yep. The have amount is always listed next to a symbol of two parallel arrows point in opposite directions (shows how many copies of the game are tradeable), and the want amount is next to a star symbol (shows how many people have the game wishlisted). To enable them, just go to your tradeable list and sort games by using the star symbol (sorting options are: Title, Recent, Tier, STAR, Images ), and then they will be shown to the right of your list. After sorting your list like that they will appear next to all games on the site.

[Downward Concept]

Wow, that changes everything. Some of my games have close to no demand. Holy f*ck.

[PolyHertz]

Just fyi, the reason Minion Masters is so valueless is because its been given away for free by the company for months now. HB pulled a real scumbag move with that one (though at least it includes the 'premium' DLC).

[Downward Concept]

Yeah, I heard about that and I haven't been able to add the sub which includes the premium upgrade. Does the premium upgrade change the demand in any way?

[PolyHertz]

Not really, at least not on barter. The inclusion of the DLC helped me trade my copy on gametrades, so maybe try there or indiegameswap instead.

[r6d2]

Originally posted by PolyHertz:

To enable them, just go to your tradeable list and sort games by using the star symbol (sorting options are: Title, Recent, Tier, STAR, Images ), and then they will be shown to the right of your list. After sorting your list like that they will appear next to all games on the site.

The above will sort games by # of people that have the game on Wishlist, but there's also a way to have the lists sorted by the current H:W ratio. (This also works while making an offer.) If interested see this post. Cheers!

[Downward Concept]

Onky downside is that I don't see the actual numbers, but it works like a charm. Bookmarked! Thanks. :)

[r6d2]

Originally posted by Downward Concept:

Onky downside is that I don't see the actual numbers, but it works like a charm. Bookmarked! Thanks. :)

The actual numbers are not very relevant, IMHO, and they change a lot. The important thing is how games rank to each other in terms of HW ratio.

There's even a tool to help to compute these ratios for you on offers. It has some limitations but still useful. You may want to try it. Cheers!

[ThreeSon]

I'll add a couple points here.

The most important part I've learned about game trading over the last year and a half or so is to not be pressured into a deal you don't want. You seem anxious that you may be doing something wrong because you haven't had many successful trades yet, but I don't feel that is the right lesson.

A trade offer that is not accepted is not a mistake or a problem. You don't have an obligation to be generous to other traders and they have no obligation to be generous to you. The goal of trading is to start with two individuals who each want something the other has, and to end with both of them happy and satisfied. If it ends with someone feeling like they got screwed in a bad deal, that's when something has gone wrong, even (or especially) if you were the one doing the screwing.

In short, be okay with a lot of declined offers. If you accept offers that you feel are fair, and don't make offers that you believe are unfair to others, you'll eventually settle into a good rhythm.

The other bit I will say is that although there are some general accepted guidelines to determining game value (nicely summarized by Poly and r6d2 here), keep in mind that everyone still has their own subjective opinions.

For example, I don't care at all about bundle or giveaway history. A game that has been in 12 $1.00 bundles is worth the same to me as one that has never been a bundle, all other factors being equal. So I'll probably never take offers like this one[barter.vg], even though all of the games from my end are bundle games and none of the games from their end are. In that case the Have/Want ratio is also heavily in their favor, but still it's just not worth it to me.

And that doesn't mean it was a bad offer - Nao and I have different opinions on determining the value of a game, but neither of us is "wrong." He made an offer that he felt was fair to both of us, and I declined because I wouldn't be satisfied with it.

I guess that would lead into a third point: Always assume offers are made in good faith (just like edits on Wikipedia). Try to never lose your cool in the case where you feel you got a bad deal. It happens. Learning experience and all that. Keep a cordial demeanor and you'll end up better for it. People will look forward to trading with you.

[Downward Concept]

Thanks a lot for the elaborate response! There's a lot of good advice in there and in some form I've already lived by what you've said there.
I trade for myself so wishlisted games are always worth something, no matter what and with using some other platforms like Steamtrades and IndieGameSwap I've been able to clear my wishlist by a large amount. In some cases you could say I lost some and in other trades I might have made a profit.
Only thing I gotta get used to is how people value Steam gifts way out of proportion to what it has been sold for.
But I already have an eye on some people and as soon as I have a internet connection next year I'll send out a bunch of offers.