People should learn how to let go...

[MakoSipper]

So far, Barter.vg has allowed me to trade lots of games. The experience has been great!

But I see a great number of people who are really picky when it comes to trade and it makes me really frustrated. They have like 200 unused bundle keys, they have a chance of trading a key they payed in average, say, $0.50, for a key for a game they have on their wishlist, and that costed me like $0.40, but they refuse to trade because they don't wanna feel like they're losing money.

I mean, seriously. Everyone's becoming familiar with bundles and as the days pass, more people get more bundles and have more keys to trade. So here's my hint for those guys. If you can't make an exception and accept a 40 cent game for a 50 cent game you have, you'll end up with a bunch of keys you'll never use or trade. Also, if you're not willing to do this for others, how do you expect people to offer you a 50 cent game for a 40 cent game you have?

Again, I had a great experience here, most people are great, but my ignore list is starting to grow now, and not that slowly...

[virotti]

I see what you mean. Some people can be really annoying. I think it's great to trade and get something we want, and I don't like the idea of keeping games in my list forever :) But there are great people out there, so for me these annoying traders are an exception rather than rule.

[MakoSipper]

Sometimes people get a BTA spare bundle key and just wait (forever) until they sell it for 3 TF2 keys, I don't know. I love the Ignore feature, though, saves me a lot of time.

[virotti]

Originally posted by MakoSipper:

Sometimes people get a BTA spare bundle key and just wait (forever) until they sell it for 3 TF2 keys, I don't know. I love the Ignore feature, though, saves me a lot of time.

I have no idea how much that is. Is it much? And yeah the ignore feature was my suggestion, and it is very helpful. I also like the fact that you can make offers instead of adding people, but I confess I'm usually not patient to wait for them to see the offer :)

[MakoSipper]

3 TF2 keys are roughly US$ 9-10 =)

They argue the game is worth a lot and, if the person is interested and lost the chance to buy the bundle, it's their problem. And then they wait... and wait...

[virotti]

Originally posted by MakoSipper:

3 TF2 keys are roughly US$ 9-10 =)

They argue the game is worth a lot and, if the person is interested and lost the chance to buy the bundle, it's their problem. And then they wait... and wait...

That's too much hehe. This people will die and be buried with their bundle games hahahhaa.

[MakoSipper]

It's actually like $7.50, I didn't convert the currency very well at first... but still =)

[Milouze]

Hi Mako, I kindly declined two trade offers which were amost fair to me, for a particular, non bundled game. I hope this thread is not targeting our failed exchanges.

If so, then I do apologies as I rarely refuse trades or end up being picky.
Many people wated my time with no trade at the end of jours discussing potential trades, which comes back to your point I guess.

[MakoSipper]

Nope. While I was disappointed when you refused my 2 games for 1 one of yours (I didn't realize it was mainstream, as I was looking just for games with cards), which I thought was fair, considering your game is being sold for roughly $1.50 on nuuvem now (ok, this has become ranting lol, lemme get to the point, but no hard feelings), I was actually thinking of 2 other users, mostly. One of them agreed to sell me like 10 bundle keys for 2 TF2 keys + 1 ToD. I waited a week for the items to be available for trade and got 2 of those games. Now I was ready to trade and he decided 4 of those were worth 1 TF2 key + 1 ToD, and the others were a lot more expensive. When I said that rise was weird and asked how much all the games would be, he deleted me (maybe blocked me, too, but definitely got blocked).

Another one wanted 4 of my keys + $ 0.50 in cards for CONSORTIUM, just because it was BTA twice. My initial offer had been 2 games on their wishlist plus 1 game they didn't have, and he still felt the urge to rip me off.

But, yeah, I really feel we should try to let go more, so those keys don't remain with us forever. You'll never know, that game key you treasure so much might show up in the lowest tier of another bundle and you won't even get 3 for 1, just 1 for 1, and you can say goodbye to your 1:4+cards plan.

[ellipsism]

I think there are some parts of this that we can improve with better design and better negotiation manners, but there are also parts of this problem that are ingrained in human nature and unavoidable.

As to what I hope will improve it, more use of the trading tags. If someone wants 3 TF2 keys for their copy of Gun Monkeys, they can use the "TF2 Key x 3" tag and everyone will know what to expect.

In the future, I hope to have more information about games to better gauge offers. On one hand, it should be simple, does the trader value the game they're receiving more than the game they're trading away, regardless of price paid in the past. On the other hand, there's a desire to get the best deal possible.

Some things can't be designed away. There are a host of cognitive biases that will impede otherwise viable trades. Two that come to mind are the endowment effect (owning something makes it more valuable to the owner) and loss aversion (giving up potential gains to avoid losses, despite the gains outweighing the losses). We're all human (except for the trading bots), so we're all susceptible.

Assuming the site continues to grow, there will be more people and better chances of finding a suitable trade. Rather than trying to force a deal, try to remain polite and find someone else.

[virotti]

Originally posted by Barter.vg:

I think there are some parts of this that we can improve with better design and better negotiation manners, but there are also parts of this problem that are ingrained in human nature and unavoidable.

As to what I hope will improve it, more use of the trading tags. If someone wants 3 TF2 keys for their copy of Gun Monkeys, they can use the "TF2 Key x 3" tag and everyone will know what to expect.

In the future, I hope to have more information about games to better gauge offers. On one hand, it should be simple, does the trader value the game they're receiving more than the game they're trading away, regardless of price paid in the past. On the other hand, there's a desire to get the best deal possible.

Some things can't be designed away. There are a host of cognitive biases that will impede otherwise viable trades. Two that come to mind are the endowment effect (owning something makes it more valuable to the owner) and loss aversion (giving up potential gains to avoid losses, despite the gains outweighing the losses). We're all human (except for the trading bots), so we're all susceptible.

Assuming the site continues to grow, there will be more people and better chances of finding a suitable trade. Rather than trying to force a deal, try to remain polite and find someone else.

That was a great read, :) I completely agree.

[MakoSipper]

Originally posted by Barter.vg:

Assuming the site continues to grow, there will be more people and better chances of finding a suitable trade. Rather than trying to force a deal, try to remain polite and find someone else.

Yeah, and thank you got the ignore feature!

My intention here is trying to make people give in just a little. For example, I accepted a 3:3 game trade recently. The other guy wanted all of my 3 games, I wanted only 1, maybe will play another one, and the other 1 I'm sure I won't play (maybe it'll have cards someday, idk). And if most people do give in, others will give in to you, too. But I'm afraid this thread will only reach those who don't need to be reached out for. =/

[ellipsism]

Originally posted by MakoSipper:

My intention here is trying to make people give in just a little. For example, I accepted a 3:3 game trade recently.

I understand the sentiment. In general, it would be great if there were more trades, but everyone has their own reasons for trading, and their own criteria. I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect to change someone's mindset and push them to give in. I wouldn't offer this advice if you're negotiating a high-priced deal, but given the low stakes, the amount of haggling should be minimal.

Just by listing their games on Barter, Steamtrades, Gala or any other site, those traders are going further than probably 90% of bundle buyers. 150,000+ Square Enix bundle buyers, how many do you think will redeem and play every game they purchased? I'm happy to see anyone list games in their tradeable section, even if they are reluctant to trade or have a bit unrealistic expectations. I know I was once, and perhaps sometimes stubbornly remain, in that position, especially when first starting. I also know it never feels good to send an offer out and have someone reject it, but, at least, on an intellectual level, we should appreciate the option even exists.

[virotti]

Originally posted by Barter.vg:

Originally posted by MakoSipper:

My intention here is trying to make people give in just a little. For example, I accepted a 3:3 game trade recently.

I understand the sentiment. In general, it would be great if there were more trades, but everyone has their own reasons for trading, and their own criteria. I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect to change someone's mindset and push them to give in. I wouldn't offer this advice if you're negotiating a high-priced deal, but given the low stakes, the amount of haggling should be minimal.

Just by listing their games on Barter, Steamtrades, Gala or any other site, those traders are going further than probably 90% of bundle buyers. 150,000+ Square Enix bundle buyers, how many do you think will redeem and play every game they purchased? I'm happy to see anyone list games in their tradeable section, even if they are reluctant to trade or have a bit unrealistic expectations. I know I was once, and perhaps sometimes stubbornly remain, in that position, especially when first starting. I also know it never feels good to send an offer out and have someone reject it, but, at least, on an intellectual level, we should appreciate the option even exists.

And your site makes it a lot less annoying to have an offer refused. A lot less boring than adding a person and talking to them to discuss the whole deal before they accept it :)

[MakoSipper]

Originally posted by Barter.vg:

I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect to change someone's mindset and push them to give in. I wouldn't offer this advice if you're negotiating a high-priced deal, but given the low stakes, the amount of haggling should be minimal.

I don't expect that. In fact, I even complained about someone changing their mindsets =p

My main objective here is to reach out for the good people out there and make they wonder:

Is it really worth it holding onto your bundle keys like they were worth hundreds of dollars?

Of course there's no right answer, but my answer is definitely "no, as long as they're not trying to take advantage of me--nothing a couple of trades can't clear out."

[ellipsism]

I looked through your offer section and noticed two failed offers. I'm guessing that the fail button needs a [ - because - ] option like the declined button. It's hard for me to get a sense of what happened in those situations. I assume at least one of them eventually went alright since it's followed by a completed offer.