Who's getting ripped off, Steam or Developers?

[Cake for Mumm-Ra]

I'm trying to decide if buying game keys from outside websites is hurting developers or Steam in general. There are a number of sites out there that sell you games that you can play on Steam. But there are also a few online stores that appear to be doing legal business that Steam doesn't want us talking about. Some of these companies names are word-filtered on Steam. I don't fully understand how it works, but you're basically buying CD keys that work here on steam - but you can the keys for way cheaper than just about anywhere else.

I've done some research already and have figured that buying from these sites are only mildly risky for the buyer. You can get insurance on your orders, for example. But the prices lead me to think somebody is missing out. I don't want to rip-off small companies, but I am definitely willing to find ways to save money on AAA titles.

Thoughts?

Also, mods please don't ban me lol, this is a legit question

[Ubertoaster]

It's often games that have been purchased for a cheaper price. Then sold to customers.
There are also companies that purchase games for a cheaper price etc Indian money.
I don't recommend doing it as I often buy games using ingame keys such as TF2 crate keys.

[Spawn of Totoro]

The sites in question has been censored for spam due to their referral program. Many users were spamming their links to get free stuff/points.

Along with that, they allow the sale of Steam Gifts for real money (A violation of the SSA) have been know to revoke (some sellers using fake/stolen cards) those gifts and to sell invalid/used/stolen keys, either directly or through their sellers. There is also the fact that many of them suggest using a VPN to activate/play some game, as they are selling you a Russian copy.

There have also been thousands of keys revoked by their developers as the keys were not legitimately obtained and the developer didn't recive money for the key.

You evidently didn't do enough research on the subject. There are more risks then you seem to know about.

Furthermore, would you trust a company that sells you insurance that a key is valid and working to being with? That right there show they know these kinds of things are going on and that they are capitalizing on it. It is like buying bottled water, then pay extra to make sure it isn't unsealed already.

[Ubertoaster]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

The sites in question has been censored for spam due to their referral program. Many users were spamming their links to get free stuff/points.

Along with that, they allow the sale of Steam Gifts for real money (A violation of the SSA) have been know to revoke (some sellers using fake/stolen cards) those gifts and to sell invalid/used/stolen keys, either directly or through their sellers. There is also the fact that many of them suggest using a VPN to activate/play some game, as they are selling you a Russian copy.

There have also been thousands of keys revoked by their developers as the keys were not legitimately obtained and the developer didn't recive money for the key.

You evidently didn't do enough research on the subject. There are more risks then you seem to know about.

Furthermore, would you trust a company that sells you insurance that a key is valid and working to being with? That right there show they know these kinds of things are going on and that they are capitalizing on it.

Well one of the reasons many are buying from these "untrusted" websites, is money related.
They see the game being sold for 40-80% off and risk buying it instead of paying the full price for a safe copy. I try to save up some extra cash so I can afford to buy from the official Steam store, but not everyone can do that.

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Furthermore, would you trust a company that sells you insurance that a key is valid and working to being with? That right there show they know these kinds of things are going on and that they are capitalizing on it.

This. A serious company doesn't ask for extra money to sell stuff that actually works. A car vendor that asks for extra money for "And I'll sell you a car that actually works!" wouldn't sell much. But video game buyers seem to be stupid enough to give money to shady vendors.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Ubertoaster:

Well one of the reasons many are buying from these "untrusted" websites, is money related.
They see the game being sold for 40-80% off and risk buying it instead of paying the full price for a safe copy. I try to save up some extra cash so I can afford to buy from the official Steam store, but not everyone can do that.

Yes, they can. They choose not to. Instead of saving, they want it now, not latter. Then Valve gets stuck having to deal with the fallout. Those sites won't help if the 3rd party store scams and the insurance tends to only be available when buying directly from them to begin with.

At 11 years old, my sister and I were able to save up and sell some of out old toys/games to buy a Snes. That was $150 at the time. We did that in one month. I would help out neighbors, do extra around the house and just pick up what change I found, in order to by games. It tool a while to get enough and I could only buy the older games, but I did it, with out having to resort to the guy in the back alley.

While a user may be getting an unofficial 40-80% off, if they walk away with nothing, then that savings becomes 100% loss.

In the end, it is a loss for the users, developers and Valve.

[Cake for Mumm-Ra]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

You evidently didn't do enough research on the subject. There are more risks then you seem to know about.

Furthermore, would you trust a company that sells you insurance that a key is valid and working to being with? That right there show they know these kinds of things are going on and that they are capitalizing on it. It is like buying bottled water, then pay extra to make sure it isn't unsealed already.

I certainly did research the topic before posting here, but all I found was user reviews, information about how the companies are doing things legally, and positive comments about the service. I couldn't find any information on why Steam censors the sites, so thanks for clearing those points up. Also, this is the first I've heard of keys being revoked - which I'm surprised I didn't see anywhere else.

But your last point doesn't make sense to me. One company that I've looked into sells insurance for purchases from other sellers. They aren't insuring their own product like a car company ReBoot brought up. This is no different than ebay protecting your purchases from other online sellers.
-------

The companies in question are appear to be sketchy but apparently have a good track record for customer service in terms of refunds and basic communication. I don't want developers getting screwed out of money, and I also don't want to get games that I'll lose if a key is revoked.

[Ubertoaster]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by Ubertoaster:

Well one of the reasons many are buying from these "untrusted" websites, is money related.
They see the game being sold for 40-80% off and risk buying it instead of paying the full price for a safe copy. I try to save up some extra cash so I can afford to buy from the official Steam store, but not everyone can do that.

Yes, they can. They choose not to. Instead of saving, they want it now, not latter. Then Valve gets stuck having to deal with the fallout. Those sites won't help if the 3rd party store scams and the insurance tends to only be available when buying directly from them to begin with.

At 11 years old, my sister and I were able to save up and sell some of out old toys/games to buy a Snes. That was $150 at the time. We did that in one month. I would help out neighbors, do extra around the house and just pick up what change I found, in order to by games. It tool a while to get enough and I could only buy the older games, but I did it, with out having to resort to the guy in the back alley.

While a user may be getting an unofficial 40-80% off, if they walk away with nothing, then that savings becomes 100% loss.

In the end, it is a loss for the users, developers and Valve.

Agreed.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Cake for Žižek:

But your last point doesn't make sense to me. One company that I've looked into sells insurance for purchases from other sellers. They aren't insuring their own product like a car company ReBoot brought up. This is no different than ebay protecting your purchases from other online sellers.

Ebay, you don't know what you are getting and shipping takes time. Keys are not supposed to be sold on e-bay, nor are digital items.

Selling game keys that are supposed to work (and do if bought through legit retailers) should not need insurance. As I said, they know their keys may have and issue and are taking advantage of that to make even more profit.

If you buy that bottle of water, the seal is broken, you expect the retailer to replace it with out having to pay extra, in advance, to ensure the seal is not broken.

There is a huge diffrence there.

Originally posted by Cake for Žižek:

The companies in question are appear to be sketchy but apparently have a good track record for customer service in terms of refunds and basic communication. I don't want developers getting screwed out of money, and I also don't want to get games that I'll lose if a key is revoked.

How do you know those reviews are not fake? What about that track record? Those can all set up by the retailer by paying money or creating many accounts. As it is a shady key seller to begin with, what is to stop them?

One of those sites had it's name in the top 5 on Humble Bundle for a long time, until Humble Bundle stopped selling the keys. I wonder how many of those keys they bough got resold for a profit, even if it was a charity purchase?

[cinedine]

I recommend this article:
http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/9/8006693/the-truth-behind-those-mysteriously-cheap-gray-market-game-codes

Polygon purchased a gray market keys and tried to track it down to its origin. Surprisingly the key went through so many hands, the various resellers don't even know (allegedly) where it comes from. It also goes a bit more in detail on the developer/publisher site and covers some scandals like Origin's credit card fraud keys or Revolution's key revoke of Sniper III.

In the end every legit seller loses on those markets and the buy can never be sure where the key is from and if it will be revoked. Even those insurances will cop out of the more common reasons I guess. On the other hand their ToS are very convoluted, badly worded, have some grammatical errors, which makes me doubt they can actually hold up. Which is a bad sign for doing business with them.

[Cake for Mumm-Ra]

Good points all around

thx

[Ubertoaster]

Originally posted by Cake for Žižek:

Good points all around

thx

Hopefully this helped you, to decide where to buy the games in the future.

[shadowshiv]

Very helpful thread for people on the fence about using those sites. For myself, I purchase physical copies or ones from Steam if a physical copy is not available.

I will admit that I have purchased a couple of games from thrift stores (such as Value Vilage) knowing that the key might not be valid anymore (I also like reading manuals and getting the other physical goodies so it wouldn't be a total loss, especially since the purchase was only a couple of dollars), and if it isn't then I will just purchase the game when it is on sale here (if it is sold here).

People that are thinking of using those kinds of sites mentioned in the OP should remember one thing. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

[76561198001062896]

for what its worth, I bought a game from that certain site for a friend

the game is still working for him with no issue, nothing bad happened to it

is it risky? probably it is. Its a risk that one can choose to or not take, regardless of the "ethics" .

as I tend to say: I usually tend to vote with my wallet and wherever I can get the most out of my buck.

[shadowshiv]

Would there be any risk of getting viruses or is it just that? A CD key given to you?

[76561198001062896]

Originally posted by grunwold:

Would there be any risk of getting viruses or is it just that? A CD key given to you?

viruses? not at all

usually they give you a cd key and thats about it for most part