Are Loot Boxes Gambling?

[Pocahawtness]

Well of course they are! But, well, no they are not... In most countries gambling requires cash, so by converting your cash to in-game currency first, game developers manage to sidestep the law and avoid regulation. But the fact remains that games companies are adopting a position of low morality over this. If the cash was not first converted to in-game currency, the law would pounce on them for encouraging kids to gamble. The real question here is whether the law will change? Personally I believe it will. And about time too. This needs regulation!! Games companies may not have broken the law but they have been far from squeaky clean.
Regulatory bodies have been muttering about this for some time. The US, UK and Australia to name a few. Personally I think the first western country to actually do something ( and that may be Australia ) will trigger the rest. Good on you Australia! But what do you guys think about all this?

[Rens Agatha ⁧【レンス】]

For me its still gambling...

[Crazy Tiger]

Lootboxes have been deemed in conflict with gambling laws in Belgium and Netherlands.

So Western countries already are on it.

[Count_Dandyman]

There was a ruling in America a while ago in another case that in game currencies that are bought with real money are considered to have enough of a value that they can be covered under gambling laws so no that conversion does not prevent them being classed as gambling.

The question is around deciding if paying a fixed amount for a random item is an issue especially when the rarity and quality varies and sadly while video games have a lot of attention on them over this there are a lot of other products that have been doing this for a long time including ones aimed at kids.

[GÔD]

For me it is. Thats why I dont open boxes. You would probably have to open like 30-50 boxes consecutively to get something good and that to maybe only 2 or 3 of them. Else what you get is not even worth the money that you spend on those boxes. Well if you are rich enough, no one will stop you. but its rather better to buy what you need from the steam market.

Talking about ingame money, that too is real money being converted to be used in steam. And if you are talking about money coming from selling items dropped in games, i dont think that will give enough money to open boxes.

[Eldin]

引用自 ｢C❤️A｣ Pocahawtness：

In most countries gambling requires cash, so by converting your cash to in-game currency first, game developers manage to sidestep the law and avoid regulation.

Casinos use chips instead of money, and that's still called gambling.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1812678594

In casinos you purchase chips for real money and use it to play luck based games.
In video games you purchase coins/diamonds/tokens with real money and use it to open luck based boxes.
It's basically the same crap.

[8ullfrog]

I've come to terms with DLC. I still think sticking weapons that are better than those in the actual game in a lootbox is bull.

Star Trek Online has really gone nuts with this, a lot of their new content is trapped in lockboxes.

If I can beat the main game with items acquired through quests, then sticking a leopard pattern on an AK-47 means precisely nothing to me. If I'm fighting foes with a baseball bat, am suddenly hit by force lightning, am decapitated by Darth Vader, and he proceeds to teabag me, and he's acquired everything, including the teabag emote from a lockbox?

I'll stop playing the game.

[ReBoot]

The important aspect here is that loot boxes trigger the same psychological mechanisms as gambling making them just as evil when used by nefarious actors, such as EA, Activision, 2k.

[8ullfrog]

I'm pretty lucky with games of chance, and I knew lootboxes were bull the first time I saw them.

Actually, my first response was "What the hell is that thing off to starboard?"

I think at that point, someone calculated the lockboxes in STO was around 0.06 percent for the real prize. (They jammed other crap in them besides the thing everyone wanted.)

They even have a consolation currency!

I've heard it's even lower now.

[Count_Dandyman]

引用自 ReBoot：

The important aspect here is that loot boxes trigger the same psychological mechanisms as gambling making them just as evil when used by nefarious actors, such as EA, Activision, 2k.

Yeah but games aren't the only way they are being exploited and at the end lawmakers are going to face the choice between allowing games a pass because they allow it in other mediums or going after all those other ones and bringing in even more big companies with even more money and clout on the defence side.

[ReBoot]

引用自 Count_Dandyman：

引用自 ReBoot：

The important aspect here is that loot boxes trigger the same psychological mechanisms as gambling making them just as evil when used by nefarious actors, such as EA, Activision, 2k.

Yeah but games aren't the only way they are being exploited and at the end lawmakers are going to face the choice between allowing games a pass because they allow it in other mediums or going after all those other ones and bringing in even more big companies with even more money and clout on the defence side.

You're wrong. Theres another, rather logical choice already existing in other media: Mark it adult-only.

[Count_Dandyman]

引用自 ReBoot：

引用自 Count_Dandyman：

Yeah but games aren't the only way they are being exploited and at the end lawmakers are going to face the choice between allowing games a pass because they allow it in other mediums or going after all those other ones and bringing in even more big companies with even more money and clout on the defence side.

You're wrong. Theres another, rather logical choice already existing in other media: Mark it adult-only.

Yeah except they haven't done that for the other things that use the exact same methods and still allow those to be sold to and marketed to kids.

[Cherrycat]

Loot boxes were accepted because the companies were giving you games for free, now the AAA studios want some too.

This is the problem with the video game industry, no amount of money is enough (at least ones that are on the stock market). It's literally never enough, lootboxes could not just be left for f2p games where we accepted it, the trillion dollar AAA games industry wanted more cash to push up stock prices too. When they force gamers to accept lootboxes in AAA games it won't even stop there, they will push harder with even worse things because the stock price has to keep going up forever. There is never a finish line, there is never enough money for a game company that has to push up share prices.

We need a video game market crash, badly.

[Count_Dandyman]

引用自 Cherrycat：

Loot boxes were accepted because the companies were giving you games for free, now the AAA studios want some too.

This is the problem with the video game industry, no amount of money is enough (at least ones that are on the stock market). It's literally never enough, lootboxes could not just be left for f2p games where we accepted it, the trillion dollar AAA games industry wanted more cash to push up stock prices too. When they force gamers to accept lootboxes in AAA games it won't even stop there, they will push harder with even worse things because the stock price has to keep going up forever. There is never a finish line, there is never enough money for a game company that has to push up share prices.

We need a video game market crash, badly.

that would only be true if EA hadn't been one of the main frontrunners of lootboxes for Fifa.

[MancSoulja]

引用自 Crazy Tiger：

Lootboxes have been deemed in conflict with gambling laws in Belgium and Netherlands.

So Western countries already are on it.

And the UK has already ruled that it isn’t. Don’t expect all the western countries to fall in-line with Belgium.

[sfnhltb]

Personally I wouldn't see them as gambling given you always get something that is worth nothing :P