I got a Game Ban so you don't have to - How and why Steam need better support when it comes to Steam game bans

[Mellow_Online1]

Hi all,

I recently fell victim to developer blackmail and revenge tactics after their game got removed from Steam for employing scam marketplace items.

Here's the story as to what happened, how I got the ban overturned, and why Steam needs better support when it comes to these.

Overall, Steam Support should really allow a more personalised and direct appeal system when it comes to this kind of stuff. I admit I'm in a priviliged position when it comes to others, but it shouldn't take someone having a direct line to Steam to get a game ban overturned.

Everyone needs the ability to appeal, end of.

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/Sentinels_of_the_Store/announcements/detail/813567935677203784

[William Shakesman]

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

William Shakesman a écrit :

The text on the profile is an infinite public punishment and thus an infinite license to bring it up. That much should be obvious.

https://imgur.com/a/Mn2TMxF

That's infinite too and also why hiding the text on the profile is not relevant.

If that needs to be hidden, it can certainly be done. The proximity to VAC right there on the screen is certainly leading to a lot of the confusion where people think "was argumentative in a post on a message board" is the same crime as smurfing or using wallhax.

That said, I could see leaving that screen as is as a compromise as, again, my problem is not with the bans but the unwarranted importance on them. And removing the red text from the profile would at a minimum be close to enough to get me to stop complaining about it.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

William Shakesman a écrit :

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

https://imgur.com/a/Mn2TMxF

That's infinite too and also why hiding the text on the profile is not relevant.

If that needs to be hidden, it can certainly be done. The proximity to VAC right there on the screen is certainly leading to a lot of the confusion where people think "was argumentative in a post on a message board" is the same crime as smurfing or using wallhax

Not at all. Notice how it says Bans and restrictions? It lists them all in the same section?

You should really know this since even Valve call bans, a restriction.

Valve may restrict or terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or breaches the Steam Online Conduct Rules. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscription(s) and/or Account.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/#4

[William Shakesman]

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

William Shakesman a écrit :

If that needs to be hidden, it can certainly be done. The proximity to VAC right there on the screen is certainly leading to a lot of the confusion where people think "was argumentative in a post on a message board" is the same crime as smurfing or using wallhax

Not at all. Notice how it says Bans and restrictions? It lists them all in the same section?

You should really know this since even Valve call bans, a restriction.

Valve may restrict or terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or breaches the Steam Online Conduct Rules. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscription(s) and/or Account.

https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/#4

Oh no you are about to do the whole "who's on first? Valve does the bans. No devs do the bans" bit again. Aren't you?

Beyond that, does this list all the forum bans then?

Still, once again, none of this disagrees with what I said.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

Keep peddling......

[William Shakesman]

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

Stealthy a écrit :

He clearly states because he knew someone from Valve as he tried exactly what we tried with no luck. It is exactly the same only I don't know any Valve employee personally or else he'd answer and see all the proof I have to provide. Something you refuse to process even when the OP states the flaw of no regular gamer being able to contest it.

The "my game ban is false because the developer is well known as a toxic person" flys very high.

and? You're the same thing OP is, a Steam user.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/robinwalker

You can literally friend request that user. Do you know who Rabin Walker is? Because I certainly do.

There's a reason why you're not being answered.........

I already explained the reason up thread. Valve does not oversee developer game bans.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

William Shakesman a écrit :

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

and? You're the same thing OP is, a Steam user.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/robinwalker

You can literally friend request that user. Do you know who Rabin Walker is? Because I certainly do.

There's a reason why you're not being answered.........

I already explained the reason up thread. Valve does not oversee developer game bans.

Stealthy a écrit :

He clearly states because he knew someone from Valve as he tried exactly what we tried with no luck.

Mellow_Online1 a écrit :

Overall, Steam Support should really allow a more personalised and direct appeal system when it comes to this kind of stuff. I admit I'm in a priviliged position when it comes to others, but it shouldn't take someone having a direct line to Steam to get a game ban overturned.

You're not reading posts......

[William Shakesman]

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

William Shakesman a écrit :

I already explained the reason up thread. Valve does not oversee developer game bans.

Stealthy a écrit :

He clearly states because he knew someone from Valve as he tried exactly what we tried with no luck.

Mellow_Online1 a écrit :

Overall, Steam Support should really allow a more personalised and direct appeal system when it comes to this kind of stuff. I admit I'm in a priviliged position when it comes to others, but it shouldn't take someone having a direct line to Steam to get a game ban overturned.

You're not reading posts......

William Shakesman a écrit :

Sasori Kigaru a écrit :

Cause I'm curious, if Valve not overturning/reversing/removing a ban isn't proof that the ban is valid, then what counts as proof? Keep in mind, I'm talking about a situation where the person banned directly appeals to Valve (like the OP) and Valve does not remove the ban. (Unlike the OP who got theirs removed via Valve)

This goes to the heart of the issues I have with the policy. The answer is another question: what constitutes a valid ban and an invalid ban? This is a tougher question than it seems. The policy states the game dev is the sole decider of that. There is nothing in the policy to suggest that there even exists a standard by which a game ban could be called invalid other than the word "abuse." (As a personal aside, this brings me back to another dishonest two step made earlier this thread where someone said "Nobody said you can get game banned from forum posts." but then he did not say "You cannot get game banned for forum posts." because the policy has no prohibition for such.)

The invalid ban in OP was from a dev who had his game removed from Steam and then he issued game bans, which is such an obvious edge case it hardly offers a standard going forward.

Having said all that, to answer your question is quite easy. Speaking theoretically about the platonic ideal case and not specifically the two banned users in this thread, it is quite obvious to see how Valve would not overturn an improper ban: the dev told them it was valid. They have no way of verifying if the dev had acted in bad faith or even any standard for what that bad faith even is. If the dev is acting maliciously, Valve only has a history of overturning it if it is outrageous and obvious.

The result is the game ban tag on a profile is not proof that you cheated or smurfed or otherwise abused the game but that a dev decided to hit a red button. And the difference between a dev and anyone else on this forum is $100.

William Shakesman a écrit :

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

If they were innocent, the bans would've been removed by now. One is two years old, the other is a year old.

There is no mechanism for that. The game dev is the sole decider of what constitutes a game ban. If he acted in bad faith in applying game bans, they would stay for as many years as they needed to.

Whether the two people in this thread are innocent or not is irrelevant but the policy has no mechanism for if the dev applied a ban in a fraudulent manner. OP had to reach out to Valve with a preexisting relationship after the dev had been kicked off of Steam for unrelated reasons to get his removed. No way Valve is going to officiate for every dev who ever had an internet moment.

I get you want to get one over on Stealthy but in the general case from a pure policy perspective your certainty is totally unjustifiable.

Unfortunately, neither are you..............

[Stealthy]

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

Stealthy a écrit :

He clearly states because he knew someone from Valve as he tried exactly what we tried with no luck. It is exactly the same only I don't know any Valve employee personally or else he'd answer and see all the proof I have to provide. Something you refuse to process even when the OP states the flaw of no regular gamer being able to contest it.

The "my game ban is false because the developer is well known as a toxic person" flys very high.

and? You're the same thing OP is, a Steam user.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/robinwalker

You can literally friend request that user. Do you know who Rabin Walker is? Because I certainly do.

There's a reason why you're not being answered.........

I have no clue who that Valve employee is and he doesn't know me.

[Sasori Kigaru]

Stealthy a écrit :

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

and? You're the same thing OP is, a Steam user.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/robinwalker

You can literally friend request that user. Do you know who Rabin Walker is? Because I certainly do.

There's a reason why you're not being answered.........

I have no clue who that Valve employee is and he doesn't know me.

Could still add him, could also contact Valve's staff directly as they do have emails and in some cases steam accounts listed as I mentioned way back in post #42

You don't need to know who these people are in order to contact them either, but all in all its their choice in whether or not they respond.

All you can do, is try. Worst case scenario? They uphold the ban, which doesn't really change your current situation. Best case? They lift the ban and it gets removed, and all you had to do was simply email and or add them.

Sasori Kigaru a écrit :

William Shakesman a écrit :

Valve has hidden themselves away such that reaching them for help on issues like this is a monumental task.

I am of course describing a situation that actually happened midway through the last thread: a game dev applied a game ban to a user with the top rated negative review and said he would remove it if he deleted the review. (He confirmed that he had removed the ban and the user confirmed that he had deleted the review as requested, though the dev appears to have deleted his own comments on the negative review itself.). Nobody on this board thought this behavior was out of line or that my description of it was inaccurate. I have also been told there is nothing wrong with Game Bans for behavior out of game, we have had people who received Game Bans in games in which they have 0 hours of playtime.

I wouldn't say they're hidden away. You can find them here right on their own website.

Now not everyone has a contact, but there are quite a few that do including Jared Christen as shown here.

When you click on his name it even says this.

valvesoftware a écrit :

Jared has worked with Steam Support since 2010 and is currently focused on expanding and refining the support operation. If you have feedback for Steam Support or from an interaction that you've had with the team, send it my way using my contact link below.

There's a big red "contact" button that shows up along with that bit of information after clicking on his name which is what my second link goes to.

Its annoying, and it definitely should not have to happen hence the suggestion/OP, but its not a monumental task.

Anyway! I'm not sure what thread you're talking about, if you can link me to it I'd appreciate it but what I was asking from you was a reply from Valve themselves and not Steam Support in regards to whether or not a game ban applied due to a negative review. Only reason I even asked is because you said specifically that Valve will say that its a valid ban.

William Shakesman a écrit :

As we have seen many times, this creates a vector for abuse, where game devs can apply game bans as revenge for a negative review and Valve will say this is valid,

Truth be told, you could probably use that contact link I've given in my reply here to actually ask Jared. His focus is to refine and expand the support operation and is clearly looking for feedback.

Fun fact, Robin Walker is also on Valve's website and this is his contact link on said website.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

Stealthy a écrit :

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

and? You're the same thing OP is, a Steam user.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/robinwalker

You can literally friend request that user. Do you know who Rabin Walker is? Because I certainly do.

There's a reason why you're not being answered.........

I have no clue who that Valve employee is and he doesn't know me.

That really says a lot considering you've already said that you've tried to contact people at valve. LOL

And really? You don't know him? Most people don't know him personally, but a lot of people know who he is. Since when do you have to know somebody personally to add them to your friends list and make inquiries?

This is so damn funny. You've harped on for a year or more about this ban and I literally show you somebody that works at Valve, who literally worked on Half-Life 2, DoTA 2 and Alyx and this is your response?

I sincerely believe at this point, that you aren't are not actually trying to contacting anyone, because you know what the response will be.

I had also forgotten that you tried to claim that GCFScape caused game bans.

And you keep wondering why people don't believe you.

[William Shakesman]

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

Stealthy a écrit :

I have no clue who that Valve employee is and he doesn't know me.

That really says a lot considering you've already said that you've tried to contact people at valve. LOL

And really? You don't know him? Most people don't know him personally, but a lot of people know who he is. Since when do you have to know somebody personally to add them to your friends list and make inquiries?

This is so damn funny. You've harped on for a year or more about this ban and I literally show you somebody that works at Valve, who literally worked on Half-Life 2, DoTA 2 and Alyx and this is your response?

I sincerely believe at this point, that you aren't are not actually trying to contacting anyone, because you know what the response will be.

I had also forgotten that you tried to claim that GCFScape caused game bans.

And you keep wondering why people don't believe you.

I mean, given how often you have contradicted yourself and needed to be told basic facts about the game ban policy, people are also having trouble believing you too.

[C²C^Guyver |NZB|]

William Shakesman a écrit :

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

That really says a lot considering you've already said that you've tried to contact people at valve. LOL

And really? You don't know him? Most people don't know him personally, but a lot of people know who he is. Since when do you have to know somebody personally to add them to your friends list and make inquiries?

This is so damn funny. You've harped on for a year or more about this ban and I literally show you somebody that works at Valve, who literally worked on Half-Life 2, DoTA 2 and Alyx and this is your response?

I sincerely believe at this point, that you aren't are not actually trying to contacting anyone, because you know what the response will be.

I had also forgotten that you tried to claim that GCFScape caused game bans.

And you keep wondering why people don't believe you.

I mean, given how often you have contradicted yourself and needed to be told basic facts about the game ban policy, people are also having trouble believing you too.

The contradictions aren't coming from me but keep telling yourself that.....You don't know 1/4 of the things you claim to know concerning Steam or Valve or bans.

[mldb88]

William Shakesman a écrit :

C²C^Guyver |NZB| a écrit :

That really says a lot considering you've already said that you've tried to contact people at valve. LOL

And really? You don't know him? Most people don't know him personally, but a lot of people know who he is. Since when do you have to know somebody personally to add them to your friends list and make inquiries?

This is so damn funny. You've harped on for a year or more about this ban and I literally show you somebody that works at Valve, who literally worked on Half-Life 2, DoTA 2 and Alyx and this is your response?

I sincerely believe at this point, that you aren't are not actually trying to contacting anyone, because you know what the response will be.

I had also forgotten that you tried to claim that GCFScape caused game bans.

And you keep wondering why people don't believe you.

I mean, given how often you have contradicted yourself and needed to be told basic facts about the game ban policy, people are also having trouble believing you too.

That’s some mighty strong projection considering how frequently you contradict yourself. There’s a good reason many on this board consider you a contrarian

[Revadike]

Are you confused? I've seen guyver contradict himself countless times. William, not at all.

[MonkehMaster]

its been like this for years, same thing different day and all..