Game rating/discussion on store page

[alpatr0s]

I got an idea for an addition to Steam which will make the store page more user friendly. Whenever I look at a game I go instantly to the reviews but all the information about a game isn't always there, and if it is you have to search through every single review to find it. I'm thinking add a section on the store page of all games where people can ask questions about the game or where players can rate aspects of the game such as optimisation, compability, graphics, user friendly, etc etc. I think this would greatly help people decide wether or not to buy a game and stop people from becoming dissapointed when they find out they can't use a controller in the game or that they can't have the game on their second monitor or that playing multiplayer with friends is really complicated etc. Then make the ratings be based on update, so ratings would be displayed for the game and for the current update. Also make people able to add their own rating category just like with tags, so if there's something you want to rate such as multiplayer or the community of the game, you can just add it and rate it yourself and then others get the option to choose that category aswell and rate it.

[Fox]

引用自 Alptraum：

I got an idea for an addition to Steam which will make the store page more user friendly. Whenever I look at a game I go instantly to the reviews but all the information about a game isn't always there, and if it is you have to search through every single review to find it. I'm thinking add a section on the store page of all games where people can ask questions about the game or where players can rate aspects of the game such as optimisation, compability, graphics, user friendly, etc etc. I think this would greatly help people decide wether or not to buy a game and stop people from becoming dissapointed when they find out they can't use a controller in the game or that they can't have the game on their second monitor or that playing multiplayer with friends is really complicated etc. Then make the ratings be based on update, so ratings would be displayed for the game and for the current update. Also make people able to add their own rating category just like with tags, so if there's something you want to rate such as multiplayer or the community of the game, you can just add it and rate it yourself and then others get the option to choose that category aswell and rate it.

You can already discuss and ask for features or lack thereof on the game hub.

A crude update-based is a less-than-subpar idea : a quick bugfix update would be equivalent to throwing bad reviews under the rug. IIRC, there is a system where old reviews get off the store page after a certain amount of times.

As for the partial ratings... I'm not convinced. I don't see how rating only part of a game is remotely useful or good, and for those who still want to read those kind of reviews, a simple title at the top of the review may take care of it already.

[Start_Running]

As said. There's a place for that. The forums.

[alpatr0s]

Let me explain more detailed.
Basically update the review system. Let users rate individual aspects of a game, instead of just a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Game is good but multiplayer is bad? Give the game a 4 maybe but rate the multiplayer a 1. I see people doing this all the time in their reviews but there's no real system implemented to see the actual ratings of the aspects of a game. People might be thumbing games down because of bugs, lag, bad optimisation etc, but the game itself might be great. For example games that have both single and multiplayer. People might think the singleplayer is awesome but the multiplayer sucks, so they thumb the games down because multiplayer is what most people want. But the people who want the singleplayer then avoid the game because they think it sucks, based on the ratings on the store page saying mixed or mostly negative etc.

And yeah, the discussion thing might not be needed since it already exists which I realized but I left it there anyway.

So, just like tags, give users the option to create a new "category" or whatever you wanna call it to rate. The basic ones would be graphics, multiplayer, optimisation, sound, and overall gameplay and then users can add their own things to rate if it's not already been added by another user. Obviously you can rate all aspects of the game, only rating one aspect would be stupid as hell.

[Start_Running]

引用自 Alptraum：

Let me explain more detailed.
Basically update the review system. Let users rate individual aspects of a game, instead of just a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Game is good but multiplayer is bad? Give the game a 4 maybe but rate the multiplayer a 1. I see people doing this all the time in their reviews but there's no real system implemented to see the actual ratings of the aspects of a game. People might be thumbing games down because of bugs, lag, bad optimisation etc, but the game itself might be great. For example games that have both single and multiplayer. People might think the singleplayer is awesome but the multiplayer sucks, so they thumb the games down because multiplayer is what most people want. But the people who want the singleplayer then avoid the game because they think it sucks, based on the ratings on the store page saying mixed or mostly negative etc.

And yeah, the discussion thing might not be needed since it already exists which I realized but I left it there anyway.

So, just like tags, give users the option to create a new "category" or whatever you wanna call it to rate. The basic ones would be graphics, multiplayer, optimisation, sound, and overall gameplay and then users can add their own things to rate if it's not already been added by another user. Obviously you can rate all aspects of the game, only rating one aspect would be stupid as hell.

Sigh... oy vey.. not vthis again. You want reviews based around a numerical scale. Yeah... not hapopening. The recommendation system basically answers a simple question. Would you recommend someone else buy this game? Yes or no. Some people do this but you may find that there is no consistency among these numerical ratings.


So yeah. just see the over all reviews. and check out the top ten positive and the top 10 negative reviews. Youll get a better picture of the game that way.

[Fox]

引用自 Alptraum：

Let me explain more detailed.
Basically update the review system. Let users rate individual aspects of a game, instead of just a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Game is good but multiplayer is bad? Give the game a 4 maybe but rate the multiplayer a 1. I see people doing this all the time in their reviews but there's no real system implemented to see the actual ratings of the aspects of a game. People might be thumbing games down because of bugs, lag, bad optimisation etc, but the game itself might be great. For example games that have both single and multiplayer. People might think the singleplayer is awesome but the multiplayer sucks, so they thumb the games down because multiplayer is what most people want. But the people who want the singleplayer then avoid the game because they think it sucks, based on the ratings on the store page saying mixed or mostly negative etc.

Hence why it's advisable to read the review instead of stopping at the notation like too many people do, despite it being the original intention.

And even then, as I said in another thread : the references differ between players. Your 9 may be one's 6.

EDIT : bested by start_running

引用自 Alptraum：

So, just like tags, give users the option to create a new "category" or whatever you wanna call it to rate. The basic ones would be graphics, multiplayer, optimisation, sound, and overall gameplay and then users can add their own things to rate if it's not already been added by another user. Obviously you can rate all aspects of the game, only rating one aspect would be stupid as hell.

Where will go the uncategorized reviews, then ?
What will prevent people from abusing the tag system like they do already with some well-advertized games ? It can be either by tagging incorrectly or adding new irrelevant tags.
What about standard tags that prove to be irrelevant to the game ? (singleplayer-only games can't be rated on their multiplayer aspect)

That seems like an unnecessary amount of work just for people to be able to not review everything without writing a disclaimer.

[alpatr0s]

引用自 Start_Running：

引用自 Alptraum：

Let me explain more detailed.
Basically update the review system. Let users rate individual aspects of a game, instead of just a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Game is good but multiplayer is bad? Give the game a 4 maybe but rate the multiplayer a 1. I see people doing this all the time in their reviews but there's no real system implemented to see the actual ratings of the aspects of a game. People might be thumbing games down because of bugs, lag, bad optimisation etc, but the game itself might be great. For example games that have both single and multiplayer. People might think the singleplayer is awesome but the multiplayer sucks, so they thumb the games down because multiplayer is what most people want. But the people who want the singleplayer then avoid the game because they think it sucks, based on the ratings on the store page saying mixed or mostly negative etc.

And yeah, the discussion thing might not be needed since it already exists which I realized but I left it there anyway.

So, just like tags, give users the option to create a new "category" or whatever you wanna call it to rate. The basic ones would be graphics, multiplayer, optimisation, sound, and overall gameplay and then users can add their own things to rate if it's not already been added by another user. Obviously you can rate all aspects of the game, only rating one aspect would be stupid as hell.

Sigh... oy vey.. not vthis again. You want reviews based around a numerical scale. Yeah... not hapopening. The recommendation system basically answers a simple question. Would you recommend someone else buy this game? Yes or no. Some people do this but you may find that there is no consistency among these numerical ratings.


So yeah. just see the over all reviews. and check out the top ten positive and the top 10 negative reviews. Youll get a better picture of the game that way.

Nope, I don't. I get a very skimmy view of where the game excels and alot of times I get very dissapointed and get a refund instead, which is the point of this whole thread. If the current system was satisfactory for me, I wouldn't have written this. There is litteraly no problem whatsoever with adding this system but there are ALOT of problems with the current system.

[wuddih]

we already have that. reviews with 2 ratings are enough, we dont need crappy star ratings, they are nonsense ... and discussions are there for every game in the games hub, no need to clutter the store page even more.

[alpatr0s]

引用自 Fox：

引用自 Alptraum：

Let me explain more detailed.
Basically update the review system. Let users rate individual aspects of a game, instead of just a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Game is good but multiplayer is bad? Give the game a 4 maybe but rate the multiplayer a 1. I see people doing this all the time in their reviews but there's no real system implemented to see the actual ratings of the aspects of a game. People might be thumbing games down because of bugs, lag, bad optimisation etc, but the game itself might be great. For example games that have both single and multiplayer. People might think the singleplayer is awesome but the multiplayer sucks, so they thumb the games down because multiplayer is what most people want. But the people who want the singleplayer then avoid the game because they think it sucks, based on the ratings on the store page saying mixed or mostly negative etc.

Hence why it's advisable to read the review instead of stopping at the notation like too many people do, despite it being the original intention.

And even then, as I said in another thread : the references differ between players. Your 9 may be one's 6.

EDIT : bested by start_running

引用自 Alptraum：

So, just like tags, give users the option to create a new "category" or whatever you wanna call it to rate. The basic ones would be graphics, multiplayer, optimisation, sound, and overall gameplay and then users can add their own things to rate if it's not already been added by another user. Obviously you can rate all aspects of the game, only rating one aspect would be stupid as hell.

Where will go the uncategorized reviews, then ?
What will prevent people from abusing the tag system like they do already with some well-advertized games ? It can be either by tagging incorrectly or adding new irrelevant tags.
What about standard tags that prove to be irrelevant to the game ? (singleplayer-only games can't be rated on their multiplayer aspect)

That seems like an unnecessary amount of work just for people to be able to not review everything without writing a disclaimer.

Uncategorized reviews will be reviews about the game as a whole. The reviews I'm talking about are for people who like to make reviews and who spend time on them, not people who write "dis game is gud 10/10". And it's not just putting a number on the aspects, you have the option to write something about everything you rate aswell. Of course not all people will do this but there's always some people who spend alot of time on their reviews for all games.
Not sure why anyone would spend time rating the multiplayer of a singleplayer game but if people want to waste their time then they can go right ahead. You can just look at a game's features and see that it doesn't include multiplayer if people do that.

Not sure why both of you are so extremely anti this idea since it's a good idea for people who like to make reviews and who are dedicated to their reviews. It would make less people dissapointed, it would mean less refunds, more people who buy the games probably because they have a better idea of the game as a whole instead of just a bunch of top rated comments which are more funny than informative. There's lots of flaws with the current rating system.

[alpatr0s]

引用自 wuddih：

we already have that. reviews with 2 ratings are enough, we dont need crappy star ratings, they are nonsense ... and discussions are there for every game in the games hub, no need to clutter the store page even more.

Actually yeah, why not give users the option to thumb up or thumb down certain aspects of the game instead of giving them a star rating.

[Start_Running]

引用自 Alptraum：

Nope, I don't. I get a very skimmy view of where the game excels and alot of times I get very dissapointed and get a refund instead, which is the point of this whole thread. If the current system was satisfactory for me, I wouldn't have written this. There is litteraly no problem whatsoever with adding this system but there are ALOT of problems with the current system.

So just pop on over to meta-critic. No matter what you do you're still measuring subjective experiences spo no matter how many fields you put you're going to get skewed results I mean seriously.. optimization? Really? That's a vague field that most users wouldn't know how to judge.

If you need more info.. search the web I'm sure there's one reviewer or site out there that has what you wnat, though Honestly Me thinks like many you're not looking for decision making tools you're looking to have the decision made for you.

[Start_Running]

引用自 Alptraum：

引用自 wuddih：

we already have that. reviews with 2 ratings are enough, we dont need crappy star ratings, they are nonsense ... and discussions are there for every game in the games hub, no need to clutter the store page even more.

Actually yeah, why not give users the option to thumb up or thumb down certain aspects of the game instead of giving them a star rating.

Because that's just more data people aren't going to bother to actually read.

[supertrooper225]

引用自 Alptraum：

引用自 wuddih：

we already have that. reviews with 2 ratings are enough, we dont need crappy star ratings, they are nonsense ... and discussions are there for every game in the games hub, no need to clutter the store page even more.

Actually yeah, why not give users the option to thumb up or thumb down certain aspects of the game instead of giving them a star rating.

The store page works fine as is. Users can barely handle the two options with reviews that they currently have, that is how we end up with thousands of joke reviews, trolling reviews or just general bad reviews.

Simplicity is best and we have that right now. Not all changes are necessary.

[alpatr0s]

Lol, whatever. It's a great idea which would greatly improve Steam but people always have negative things to say.
And yeah, the store page works fine. The reviews, however, do not. I see lots of games get thumbed down to hell, then I check the positive reviews and they say that certain aspects etc of the game are good but the majority of them are not, wether it's gamemodes or graphics etc and with this system, everyone could see WHY the games are thumbed down or thumbed up, not just the fact that they are thumbed down/up without having to scroll through 50 reviews to find out why the game is bad.
You're not supossed to have to go to other sites to check these things which is why it should be added. Every single person I've told this to has said it's a great idea, since I've already stated like 3 times it would mean people know more about the game before they buy it, less people would get dissapointed and get a refund for their games after realizing it's bad, and more people would buy the games because at the moment they're unsure whether or not to buy it because of the lack of information on the store page. You can point out problems with every system ever. A human can't really create anything at all that doesn't have flaws and the system we have in place right now is more flawed than helpful, especially on popular games where people just write troll reviews to get Internet points and feel good about themselves. People would still be able to do that with my system but the ones who actually are serious would have alot of tools available to them to make great reviews, unlike now.

And what the hell is this point about subjectiveness that you're trying to make? Of course a rating system is subjective, how low IQ do you think I have? It's basic logic, and at this moment it's litteraly all about subjectiveness, if you think the game is fun or not, it's not about rating wether the game is GOOD or BAD, it's about rating whether you like the game or not, which is way more subjective than the system I'm talking about. I also see alot of people thumbing games down even though they enjoy the game because of things like optimisation or bad graphics which is why I mentioned that. It's not hard to judge optimisation. Do you have a computer more than capable of running this game? Yes. Does the game run good? No. Conclusion: Bad optimisation. That was really hard.

[alpatr0s]

引用自 supertrooper225：

引用自 Alptraum：

Actually yeah, why not give users the option to thumb up or thumb down certain aspects of the game instead of giving them a star rating.

The store page works fine as is. Users can barely handle the two options with reviews that they currently have, that is how we end up with thousands of joke reviews, trolling reviews or just general bad reviews.

Simplicity is best and we have that right now. Not all changes are necessary.

The more popular a game is, the more troll reviews there are with the current system. With the new system, the troll reviews would still be at the top of the reviews but you would have a bar on the side by the game info (Where it says multiplayer, singleplayer, cross-platform etc) where individual aspects of the game show up like "Graphics, 75%" which would mean 75% of the reviews have thumbed up the graphics on a game, or "Multiplayer 15%" which means only 15% have thumbed the game up, or something similar to that. I'm not a genius, I can't come up with a perfectly designed review system in one post.

[Fox]

引用自 Alptraum：

Uncategorized reviews will be reviews about the game as a whole. The reviews I'm talking about are for people who like to make reviews and who spend time on them, not people who write "dis game is gud 10/10". And it's not just putting a number on the aspects, you have the option to write something about everything you rate aswell. Of course not all people will do this but there's always some people who spend alot of time on their reviews for all games.
Not sure why anyone would spend time rating the multiplayer of a singleplayer game but if people want to waste their time then they can go right ahead. You can just look at a game's features and see that it doesn't include multiplayer if people do that.

They would do it for abuse of review visibility, both undesirable outcomes which dilute the suggestion's worth. So, the "leave it be" answer to counter incorrectly applied tags seems ill-advised : why bother implementing a self-regulating system when past experiences (Community badge, reviews and for some people, greenlight) shows you that it wouldn't work ?

Even if one adds regulatory measures, such as tags being disabled if some features are not present in the store page, or user-made tags being limited or curated, the human factor is still creeping in.

引用自 Alptraum：

Not sure why both of you are so extremely anti this idea since it's a good idea for people who like to make reviews and who are dedicated to their reviews. It would make less people dissapointed, it would mean less refunds, more people who buy the games probably because they have a better idea of the game as a whole instead of just a bunch of top rated comments which are more funny than informative. There's lots of flaws with the current rating system.

It's simply because of a poor implementation as outlined above, alongside the fact that it would serve little additional purpose : the only added feature would be a "give reviews talking about this" button whose results would be just as rife with troll reviews.

So, it's not worth it as it stands.

"Extremely" is an overstatement, though.

引用自 Alptraum：

I see lots of games get thumbed down to hell, then I check the positive reviews and they say that certain aspects etc of the game are good but the majority of them are not, wether it's gamemodes or graphics etc and with this system, everyone could see WHY the games are thumbed down or thumbed up, not just the fact that they are thumbed down/up without having to scroll through 50 reviews to find out why the game is bad.

This is easily solved by reading the review, and if this is the crux of the issue, additional ratings will not help : good reviewers would have included it in their text, bad reviewers would misuse it. In both cases, nothing has changed.