The Epic Online Service (EoS) is becoming a problem for games on Steam

[gorba]

Here's a list of all games on Steam that have implemented EoS: https://steamdb.info/tech/SDK/EpicOnlineServices/

This service creates an always-on capability, and while it seems reasonable to do so for launch, it is NOT proper for publishers to bolt-on these services months or even years after release, well beyond the refund window.

EoS is like Denuvo in that it creates an always-on tunnel connection making even single-player titles online-only games.

Here's are a couple of examples:

Killing Floor 2: https://i.redd.it/hrleddj9w6691.png
Elden Ring: https://i.redd.it/7ahcb5os0e691.png

Valve should step in and set some rules for publishers. They can implement EoS on the condition that they fully disclose to the customer via the third-party disclaimer and do not include the EOS overlay.

Further, Valve should be very clear with the publishers that they CAN NOT bolt on EoS AFTER release, and if they do so, they must provide a refund to the customer at their expense. Adding EoS alters the product's EULA beyond what the customer agreed to.

[Start_Running]

Then by your rules the dev/pubs that have done so have done nothing wrong. Read the EULA for any game andd you will say that the right to do so is reserved in advance.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by gorba:

Elden Ring: https://i.redd.it/7ahcb5os0e691.png

... I play Elden Ring off-line just fine, with no issues. There is no on-line requirement for it.

Set Steam to off-line mode. Unplug my ethernet cable and it still runs.

I can't seem to find a reference to that error either, after a quick google search for the error message.

The error there is likely due to Easy Anti-Cheat as that is owned by Epic.

[Babi Gendut]

Problem? Instead of blaming epic for providing easy crossplay solutions to developers, blame valve for being greedy and lazy.

We should have crossplay for at least across all pc stores years ago, but valve don't care and keep the network for themselves. And steamboys still thought epic want monopoly and dividing pc gaming? What a joke.

[Satoru]

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Problem? Instead of blaming epic for providing easy crossplay solutions to developers, blame valve for being greedy and lazy.

We should have crossplay for at least across all pc stores years ago, but valve don't care and keep the network for themselves. And steamboys still thought epic want monopoly and dividing pc gaming? What a joke.

It seems sort of stupid to call valve “greedy” when Steamworks is literally free. How is giving away your middleware platform “greed”. Like at least put a single second of thought into things instead of being incredibly lazy and just throw out “greed” as a catch all insult because you’re too lazy to put an original thought together

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Problem? Instead of blaming epic for providing easy crossplay solutions to developers, blame valve for being greedy and lazy.

Valve already had crossplay. Maybe not with epic but they have it.

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

We should have crossplay for at least across all pc stores years ago, but valve don't care and keep the network for themselves. And steamboys still thought epic want monopoly and dividing pc gaming? What a joke.

Well considering the Epic way is to basically force the epic launcher onto things and thusly an EPicAccount...you'll pardon if I'm not particularly excited.

[Gwarsbane]

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Problem? Instead of blaming epic for providing easy crossplay solutions to developers, blame valve for being greedy and lazy.

We should have crossplay for at least across all pc stores years ago, but valve don't care and keep the network for themselves. And steamboys still thought epic want monopoly and dividing pc gaming? What a joke.

A little hint... its not Steam blocking crossplay... if it was, people on steam would not be able to play against people on epic...

Its the other platforms, and the developers of the games that are not building in the crossplay ability.

Here is a post from 2020 with someone complaining about no crossplay and blaming steam, yet steam even has a tag for crossplay.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/526870/discussions/0/2823131222987553827/

Its called cross platform multiplayer.


If Valve didn't allow it, why would they allow that to be on their steam page?

[Start_Running]

Bingo.

[Babi Gendut]

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Problem? Instead of blaming epic for providing easy crossplay solutions to developers, blame valve for being greedy and lazy.

Valve already had crossplay. Maybe not with epic but they have it.

Really? Which games use valve crossplay? And how come developers prefer EOS over whatever valve has?

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

We should have crossplay for at least across all pc stores years ago, but valve don't care and keep the network for themselves. And steamboys still thought epic want monopoly and dividing pc gaming? What a joke.

Well considering the Epic way is to basically force the epic launcher onto things and thusly an EPicAccount...you'll pardon if I'm not particularly excited.

Well, that's on you.

Although epic provide an anonymous solution for people who dont want to create epic account. It's up to devs which solution from EOS they want to use.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Valve already had crossplay. Maybe not with epic but they have it.

Really? Which games use valve crossplay? And how come developers prefer EOS over whatever valve has?

Well I know the borderlads series does, with other store fronts and even consoles I think. Most of the SNK games, and quite a few others.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Well considering the Epic way is to basically force the epic launcher onto things and thusly an EPicAccount...you'll pardon if I'm not particularly excited.

Well, that's on you.

Although epic provide an anonymous solution for people who dont want to create epic account. It's up to devs which solution from EOS they want to use. [/quote]
Because maybe that was the only way to enable crossplay with epic because epic literally creates a wall to otherwise prevent crossplay...just a thought.

[Babi Gendut]

Originally posted by Gwarsbane:

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Problem? Instead of blaming epic for providing easy crossplay solutions to developers, blame valve for being greedy and lazy.

We should have crossplay for at least across all pc stores years ago, but valve don't care and keep the network for themselves. And steamboys still thought epic want monopoly and dividing pc gaming? What a joke.

A little hint... its not Steam blocking crossplay... if it was, people on steam would not be able to play against people on epic...

Its the other platforms, and the developers of the games that are not building in the crossplay ability.

Here is a post from 2020 with someone complaining about no crossplay and blaming steam, yet steam even has a tag for crossplay.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/526870/discussions/0/2823131222987553827/

Its called cross platform multiplayer.


If Valve didn't allow it, why would they allow that to be on their steam page?

Its easy to make policy about what is allowed and not allowed. That's why I also said valve is lazy. They don't provide the whole system, they just "allowed" their network to be used by developer's owned crossplay system.

And if some people are angry because epic provides better solutions than the half-baked "steam crossplay" and developers preferred it, then it's not them. Neither epic nor game developers is at fault.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Originally posted by Gwarsbane:

A little hint... its not Steam blocking crossplay... if it was, people on steam would not be able to play against people on epic...

Its the other platforms, and the developers of the games that are not building in the crossplay ability.

Here is a post from 2020 with someone complaining about no crossplay and blaming steam, yet steam even has a tag for crossplay.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/526870/discussions/0/2823131222987553827/

Its called cross platform multiplayer.


If Valve didn't allow it, why would they allow that to be on their steam page?

Its easy to make policy about what is allowed and not allowed. That's why I also said valve is lazy. They don't provide the whole system, they just "allowed" their network to be used by developer's owned crossplay system.

Because news flash, there's no real one size fitsall system. Nevermind that devs may have their own crossplay system prior to coming to Steam. Valve provides the tools and leaves it up to devs to implement and devs do...in many cases without needing to install a steam launcher on someone else's compueter.

At that point it's nechnically not crossplay anymore since bother are basically running within the EoS proprietary ecosystem.

[Babi Gendut]

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Really? Which games use valve crossplay? And how come developers prefer EOS over whatever valve has?

Well I know the borderlads series does, with other store fronts and even consoles I think. Most of the SNK games, and quite a few others.

Borderlands series have their own shift server for crossplay. I'm sure all games you mentioned need to make their own system to enable crossplay. EOS help them removed that hassle.

Because maybe that was the only way to enable crossplay with epic because epic literally creates a wall to otherwise prevent crossplay...just a thought.

No, elden ring and chivalry 2 for example doesn't need epic account despite having EOS in them.
Again, if you can't accept EOS, than that's on you. Epic never build a wall to prevent you from playing games with other store / platform. Epic build bridges, and it's your hatred towards epic break those bridges. It's really your fault.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Its easy to make policy about what is allowed and not allowed. That's why I also said valve is lazy. They don't provide the whole system, they just "allowed" their network to be used by developer's owned crossplay system.

Because news flash, there's no real one size fitsall system. Nevermind that devs may have their own crossplay system prior to coming to Steam. Valve provides the tools and leaves it up to devs to implement and devs do...in many cases without needing to install a steam launcher on someone else's compueter.

EOS never meant to solve a complex crossplay system like mmo for example. But they do simple matchmaking that valve don't really want to share if the game is not on steam.

At that point it's nechnically not crossplay anymore since bother are basically running within the EoS proprietary ecosystem.

Huh? How is it not crossplay just because devs don't use their own system? A common system must be made across all platforms in order for them to work together. Epic made the system and share it to all game developers.

[Babi Gendut]

Originally posted by Satoru:

Originally posted by Babi Gendut:

Problem? Instead of blaming epic for providing easy crossplay solutions to developers, blame valve for being greedy and lazy.

We should have crossplay for at least across all pc stores years ago, but valve don't care and keep the network for themselves. And steamboys still thought epic want monopoly and dividing pc gaming? What a joke.

It seems sort of stupid to call valve “greedy” when Steamworks is literally free. How is giving away your middleware platform “greed”. Like at least put a single second of thought into things instead of being incredibly lazy and just throw out “greed” as a catch all insult because you’re too lazy to put an original thought together

Steamworks is not literally free. The devs paid it with 20%-30% of their revenue. On the other hand, EOS is literally free since the game does not need to be sold on egs in order to use EOS.

Although, that's not what I meant by valve is being greedy. Unlike epic who release separate sdk for EOS, the steamworks matchmaking api is part of steam launcher. People who buy games from GOG, itch, origin, etc won't have the same network as steam.

And that is very problematic because most people play on steam. Devs who don't want to be bothered with developing their own matchmaking systems will just not sell their games on other store. Forcing people who prefer other store to buy from steam instead and practically killing the competition.

So instead of suggesting valve to make a policy that will set the pc gaming back to stone age, people should ask them to stop being greedy and pretending that other platforms doesn't exist. Ask them to start expanding the steamworks for non steam release.

[Satsujinki]

Well the thing is that Valve is doing nothing because they already made their statements about their hands-off philosophy numerous times already.

[lightwo]

Here's what you can do:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2594056744
Problem is, not every game will work. Consider avoiding games reliant on EOS, period.