twisting words

[Shinoskay]

Hey steam, can you have a rule against 'twisting someones words to suit your own rhetoric'?

I feel like its more inflammatory, AND DISRESPECFUL, than anything else to reductively 'paraphrase' someone in a way that creates a negative portrayal of what they are saying.

[76561199648916059]

Nx Machina lähetti viestin:

Shinoskay lähetti viestin:

Hey steam, can you have a rule against 'twisting someones words to suit your own rhetoric'?

I feel like its more inflammatory, AND DISRESPECFUL, than anything else to reductively 'paraphrase' someone in a way that creates a negative portrayal of what they are saying.

Your post history is public.

What makes me laugh is the words you constantly post from others have more value then your own words.

[Mad Scientist]

Majestically Awkward lähetti viestin:

Nx Machina lähetti viestin:

Your post history is public.

What makes me laugh is the words you constantly post from others have more value then your own words.

Well what nx is displaying is the fox in the hen house problem; the general reminder to all involved parties is one is everyone is personally responsible for their own behavior & consequences of such behavior; that requested changes over personal matters do not result in desired action, so much as the action repeating unless individuals improve.

[Nx Machina]

William Shakesman lähetti viestin:

The idea that the rules are obvious and easy to understand

The rules are obvious and easy to understand.

William Shakesman lähetti viestin:

The rules are quite clear and easy to understand. A user is more than capable of determining a ban is unfair or not by simply reading his own post and the rules.

[cinedine]

?legit lähetti viestin:

fluxtorrent lähetti viestin:

Hey look, its someone who took and twisted my words for 8 months to make it seem like I was saying something i wasn't to try and villify me

Nobody twisted your words.

No idea what they are even talking about, but definitely the wrong user to play any kind of victim card.

[Nx Machina]

Majestically Awkward lähetti viestin:

What makes me laugh is the words you constantly post from others have more value then your own words.

I can assure you people find value in post history especially when intention is known, alt abuse is the norm and those who claim words are twisted have enaged in it.

[William Shakesman]

Nx Machina lähetti viestin:

William Shakesman lähetti viestin:

The idea that the rules are obvious and easy to understand

The rules are obvious and easy to understand.

William Shakesman lähetti viestin:

The rules are quite clear and easy to understand. A user is more than capable of determining a ban is unfair or not by simply reading his own post and the rules.

Precisely. The rules are obvious and everyone can understand them. Thus OP os valid and correct when he feels he was moderated incorrectly. I am glad you agree that it was a poor showing and an embarrassment to the standards of Valve forum moderation. Especially his ban for soliciting which was obviously incorrectly applied. Glad to see you stand up for him.

I even dropped that rake right in the post and you people still stepped on it. Remarkable. People are still trying to run the schrodingers rules game where they are both obvious and objective but also subjective and vary based on time of day.

[Nx Machina]

William Shakesman lähetti viestin:

Thus OP os valid and correct when he feels he was moderated incorrectly.

You cannot be moderated incorrectly when by your own words,

William Shakesman lähetti viestin:

Precisely. The rules are obvious and everyone can understand them.

Therefore they are not vague, nor unclear.

[7ppy]

can we instead have less rules?
I can't speak truth anymore

[76561197960287930]

7ppy lähetti viestin:

can we instead have less rules?
I can't speak truth anymore

+1 leave people to twist their own words.

I slit the sheet, the sheet I slit, and on the slitted sheet I sit.

[Shinoskay]

Tito Shivan lähetti viestin:

Shinoskay lähetti viestin:

This is why its good to have clearly defined, or outlined, rules.

That's cool on paper. But in reality it doesn't work that way. Just like it doesn't happen with the actual rules.

I disagree.

7ppy lähetti viestin:

can we instead have less rules?
I can't speak truth anymore

I feel you.

the issues isnt less, or more, rules. its in moderable rules.

Discourse should be organic and in good faith, its natural that some people are going to make self serving complaints or suggestions... we shouldnt feel like invalidating a person, or negging their statements, should be a viable way to counter self serve.

and inflammatory methods to try and get someone else to mess up and get in trouble should also be a problem. this includes keeping discussions on topic, keeping spam down, regulating that people arent just going around mocking others... etc etc.

However, than, we do also need to recognize that people wont stick around if things being said are also flippant or casually offensive.

these are usually meant to be the core focus of any moderating entity (whether it be on a forum or otherwise)

Then, of course, this forum being for a business also needs to account for that people paid money to be here and are thus afforded certain degrees of comfort and support.

once this threshold is accomplished, then everything else should be acceptable.

My suggestion here falls within what I see as the threshold. I've made another suggestion elsewhere about a rule I feel has people coloring outside the lines, so to speak, and could use LESS regulation (despite its intentions being good ones). feel free to go over to that thread and talk about less restrictions.

[76561199648916059]

Nx Machina lähetti viestin:

Majestically Awkward lähetti viestin:

What makes me laugh is the words you constantly post from others have more value then your own words.

I can assure you people find value in post history especially when intention is known, alt abuse is the norm and those who claim words are twisted have enaged in it.

What people? All my time spent on steam forums has shown me that there really isn't that many of us here. Respectfully the twisting of words seems to be something steams frequent forum abusers like to engage in to incite toxic behaviour, I can assure you that 99% of steams population that uses the forums engage so in honest opinion and insightful declaration of problems often ignored and denied by steam and it's small ground of nay Sayers.

I can imagine you like to preach to the choir however we are all in the church of steam and see with our own eyes the corruption and abuse engaged within steam. You having a problem, with users has a simple solution, stop using the forums, no need to engage disrespectfully posting repeated quotes over and over again, it is after all considered spamming.

[BJWyler]

Shinoskay lähetti viestin:

This is why its good to have clearly defined, or outlined, rules. if the rule is quite simply as stated... an easily understandable thing... then it doesnt matter who agrees or disagrees because we can simply glance over and see whos understanding is correct with an easy re reading of the rules.

the system seems to have been working fine over the years. The problem is clearly outlining and defining each and every rule and explanation is that you wind up with a 500 page contract that no one will ever read through or understand, and essentially becomes ineffective. Because then you will have people that see a rule that says "Don't say A, B, or C" so they go ahead and say D, knowing full well that D isn't all that much different than A, B, and C, but "the rules don't say I can't say that, so nyah nyah nyah." So it is much more efficient and effective to simply say "Don't be a jerk" then to list 20 pages detailing the definition of being a jerk, and then still having people being jerks because their particular brand of jerkiness wasn't listed in those 20 pages.

If one has to ask if a comment will seem disrespectful, then one probably shouldn't post said comment. That's as simple as it gets.

[76561199648916059]

I don't believe the system has worked fine ever, and certainly not for years simply due to the overwhelming decline of activity within the forums. What has changed is that more and more of use that are left are speaking out against the systematic abuse and declaring that steam needs to stop and fix it's inappropriate behaviour towards its forum discussing customers.

Many of us are aware that in the past even harsher abuse was enacted by the same people who still post in bad faith stating volunteer moderation was good. I know what a sham it was I was there and I seen how discriminating and bais most volunteer moderators where.

What we have now is a system that still has a small group of individuals exploiting steams loopholes to harass and engage so in negative impact to the forums, to simply keep discriminating against content posted by steams customers.

It needs to stop, steam needs to remove the loop holes allowing toxic individuals such as those stripped of forum power to even continue to engage on this platform. Over the years those individuals have driven the customers away from steam and have turned this forum not into a gaming forum, but a single narrative forum set to embellish steams profits and not The better treatment or enjoyment of its customers.

[Psymon²]

Majestically Awkward lähetti viestin:

I don't believe the system has worked fine ever, and certainly not for years simply due to the overwhelming decline of activity within the forums. What has changed is that more and more of use that are left are speaking out against the systematic abuse and declaring that steam needs to stop and fix it's inappropriate behaviour towards its forum discussing customers.

Many of us are aware that in the past even harsher abuse was enacted by the same people who still post in bad faith stating volunteer moderation was good. I know what a sham it was I was there and I seen how discriminating and bais most volunteer moderators where.

What we have now is a system that still has a small group of individuals exploiting steams loopholes to harass and engage so in negative impact to the forums, to simply keep discriminating against content posted by steams customers.

It needs to stop, steam needs to remove the loop holes allowing toxic individuals such as those stripped of forum power to even continue to engage on this platform. Over the years those individuals have driven the customers away from steam and have turned this forum not into a gaming forum, but a single narrative forum set to embellish steams profits and not The better treatment or enjoyment of its customers.

how do we get valve to care?
since they clearly don't...

[BJWyler]

It certainly has been working fine for those who chose to use the system properly and in good faith. Those who choose not to use it in good faith or for outright trolling will certainly find issues with the system. And that's OK, because that in and of itself proves it is working.

It's amusing that there are people who participate in forums only do so by hiding behind alt accounts (who they themselves admit are only created to troll the forums) are looking for serious discussions, including how to improve Steam as a platform overall.

Serious discussions are being had, and are there for taking. One simply has to be here with honesty and good faith. Hiding beings alts and having no skin in the game shows just the opposite, so anything said can simply be dismissed out of hand because it holds no value.

If one wants to be taken seriously, then one does so on one's main account and does it without gaslighting, inane conspiracy theories, and lack of desire to back up one word with verifiable fact. The proof is always in the pudding. Serious discussions will be had, and one will be taken seriously when one acts in such a manner that they are deserving of such respect.

It's never been OK to be an arse to other people. It's just that in the good ole days, you would get knocked on your arse for doing so. So people learned to actually be civil to one another and treat each other with respect. When the Internet came along, the Edgelords found a place where they could make arses of themselves as much as they wanted with little consequence. They got used to, and comfortable in that fact that most of the society ignored their little parcel for a couple of decades.

But all that has changed. Now that more of the civil and respectful parts of society have joined this space, the Edgelords are finding that their infantile nonsense is not going to be tolerated here any more either. Of course they don't like that, so they have been lashing out, fueled of course, by certain elected officials that act like spoiled toddlers themselves.

Fortunately, however, the majority of the people hanging around and hosting global spaces, like Steam, are part of the civil and respectful part of society, so we're going to make sure those spaces remain civil and respectful. It's just that simple. Moderation is simply just the Edgelords getting knocked on their arses, just like the good ole days. As it should be.

Now, if one wants to discuss how moderation can be more consistent and better at handling the trolls. That is certainly an improvement worth discussing in good faith.