Is it time to recognize ARM64+Windows as a platform?

[肥皂泡]

Many games already support ARM architecture on Windows: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Windows_ARM_games

Steam already supports ARM64 on MacOS.

I think Steam would benefit from having a native ARM64 Windows build as it currently only runs emulated. More ARM64 devices will appear on PC ecosystem in upcoming years.

You don't even need to "port" the code if you don't want. Whole code can be made ARM64-native by simply compiling it with ARM64EC option enabled: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2021/06/28/announcing-arm64ec-building-native-and-interoperable-apps-for-windows-11-on-arm/

ARM64 CPU's on PC aren't known for their power currently, but they're getting better, and not all games require immense power either.

In fact, I own a windows device with a Qualcomm 850 processor, I can run steam and games through the dynamic binary translator and have shown good performance (40+fps) in some some games that are not intensive to work on.

But the x64 steam client is slowing down my device's running speed, if valve builds a steam client for windows arm, then I think it would benefit the steam client experience as well as improve game performance (since steam consumes cpu performance in the background even while the game is running)

What do you folks think?

[Cathulhu]

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/3802778829237258400/
Not even a month ago we had the same topic.

[肥皂泡]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Cathulhu:

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/3802778829237258400/
Not even a month ago we had the same topic.

In fact this issue doesn't matter, as I said I can run X86 & X86_64 games via dynamic binary translator, so it doesn't matter if there are even no ARM games in the STEAM store, because STEAM's X64 client is just too heavy for ARM devices, even if only STEAM's client is compiled to an ARM version, Windows on ARM users can benefit from it too!

If you still think this issue is important, well, I'll give you some lists
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2169220
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1358810
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2099050

And the game wiki site I mentioned in the main thread also includes a lot of ARM games, you can absolutely check out these included games in the list (but keep in mind that there are still ARM games that have not been included yet)
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Windows_ARM_games

BTW, this friend has spoken my mind
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/3802778829237258400/#c3802778829238169725

[Crashed]

Shared 64-bit DLLs you'd want to compile as ARM64X so they can be loaded by both original ARM64 and ARM64EC binaries, as well as x64 binaries.

[nullable]

Valve is aware of ARM, they'll support WinArm when it makes sense to them.

[Crashed]

Opprinnelig skrevet av nullable:

Valve is aware of ARM, they'll support WinArm when it makes sense to them.

Does it detect x64 support properly on Windows 11 ARM64 systems?

[nullable]

That would be a question for Valve. Either they do and they haven't decided to go for it yet. Or they don't, and they don't care because the the percentage of WinArm users from other sources isn't significant enough for them to worry about. Or, who knows, they could add it any day now.

All I'm saying is Valve is aware of ARM and ARM for Windows, and they'll probably add support when it makes sense to them. ARM isn't going away, and it's inevitable there will be WinArm support. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, and everyone is gonna have an opinion about the when.

[肥皂泡]

Opprinnelig skrevet av nullable:

That would be a question for Valve. Either they do and they haven't decided to go for it yet. Or they don't, and they don't care because the the percentage of WinArm users from other sources isn't significant enough for them to worry about. Or, who knows, they could add it any day now.

All I'm saying is Valve is aware of ARM and ARM for Windows, and they'll probably add support when it makes sense to them. ARM isn't going away, and it's inevitable there will be WinArm support. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, and everyone is gonna have an opinion about the when.

I definitely agree with this

So now all I'm doing is, letting Valve know that there are some people out there who desire an ARM version of STEAM, and pushing for it to move forward

[肥皂泡]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Crashed:

Shared 64-bit DLLs you'd want to compile as ARM64X so they can be loaded by both original ARM64 and ARM64EC binaries, as well as x64 binaries.

Yes, I've seen someone testing this and with ARM64EC
https://picx.zhimg.com/80/v2-2cf80dc480a974175a9064a076c8640e_720w.webp?source=1940ef5c

We can get almost all of the native performance out of it with not many changes required by the developer (compared to putting out a full ARM version), I know, it's still not an easy thing to do, but MS shows us the way and shortcuts!

[Moty]

Would LOVE to have an ability to use filter to see native ARM games.
Would make buying an ARM pc decision much easier.

[肥皂泡]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Moty:

Would LOVE to have an ability to use filter to see native ARM games.
Would make buying an ARM pc decision much easier.

Yes, this will give ARM a big boost

[Mad Scientist]

Opprinnelig skrevet av 肥皂泡:

because STEAM's X64 client is just too heavy for ARM devices, even if only STEAM's client is compiled to an ARM version

Isn't that sort of the flaw? They should be able to handle the client, the game, and still not be overwhelmed.

Arm just isn't popular for PCs so far, it they become popular they'll likely visit this option, but since it's mostly for cell phones, tablets, and proprietary machines I don't see this happening soon.

[肥皂泡]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Mad Scientist:

Opprinnelig skrevet av 肥皂泡:

because STEAM's X64 client is just too heavy for ARM devices, even if only STEAM's client is compiled to an ARM version

Isn't that sort of the flaw? They should be able to handle the client, the game, and still not be overwhelmed.

Arm just isn't popular for PCs so far, it they become popular they'll likely visit this option, but since it's mostly for cell phones, tablets, and proprietary machines I don't see this happening soon.

So can you tell me why STEAM on Mac on ARM is "necessary" but not on Windows on ARM? Rosetta is good enough for all this, isn't it?

STEAM and games on the MAC will work just fine without an ARM version of STEAM on the MAC, so what's "necessary" for Valve to release an ARM version of STEAM on the MAC? Everything works as you expect on the MAC as you think, there is every reason for Valve to do nothing, no? But they still did. Can you tell me why this is?

And it can be seen from the fact that people seek to solve the problem of high CPU usage and memory usage of the STEAM client. For X86 devices, the STEAM client itself also poses considerable resistance to running games, let alone through X86 to ARM binary conversion.

In addition to performance improvements, there are more benefits to STEAM launching an ARM version, I am too lazy to repeat it, please check this:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/3802778829237258400/#c3802778829238169725

I don't understand why you guys keep trying to keep things from getting better, am I trying to destroy STEAM and video games?

[Crashed]

Opprinnelig skrevet av 肥皂泡:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Crashed:

Shared 64-bit DLLs you'd want to compile as ARM64X so they can be loaded by both original ARM64 and ARM64EC binaries, as well as x64 binaries.

Yes, I've seen someone testing this and with ARM64EC
https://picx.zhimg.com/80/v2-2cf80dc480a974175a9064a076c8640e_720w.webp?source=1940ef5c

We can get almost all of the native performance out of it with not many changes required by the developer (compared to putting out a full ARM version), I know, it's still not an easy thing to do, but MS shows us the way and shortcuts!

The ARM64X ABI is actually a hybrid that has both ARM64 and ARM64EC ABIs. This is what system DLLs in Windows 11 ARM64 use so they are compatible with ARM64, ARM64EC, and x64 executables.

[肥皂泡]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Crashed:

Opprinnelig skrevet av 肥皂泡:

Yes, I've seen someone testing this and with ARM64EC
https://picx.zhimg.com/80/v2-2cf80dc480a974175a9064a076c8640e_720w.webp?source=1940ef5c

We can get almost all of the native performance out of it with not many changes required by the developer (compared to putting out a full ARM version), I know, it's still not an easy thing to do, but MS shows us the way and shortcuts!

The ARM64X ABI is actually a hybrid that has both ARM64 and ARM64EC ABIs. This is what system DLLs in Windows 11 ARM64 use so they are compatible with ARM64, ARM64EC, and x64 executables.

OK