Integrated virtual private network System for multiplayer in older games.

[Gurrier]

There are hundreds of great old games on steam that only really support multiplayer through LAN. It would be great if there was a system in Steam similar to Hamachi which would allow you to create a VPN with anyone on your friends list.

Yah?

[Gwarsbane]

They don't want people using VPNs on their system to play/buy games, what makes you think they would integrate one into steam.

[Gurrier]

Same technology, very different application.

[Start_Running]

I get where you're going OP and while it would be nice, if we could get the multiplayer on some oldergames working, the sad truth is, it's not something that steam is going to undertake. They aren't steams games, steam really does not have the authority.

That said, you could lean on some publishers of the games you'd like tos ee multiplayer revived in and see if they'll bite.

[Gurrier]

Using VPN to enable multiplayer LAN wouldn't require changing anything in the games themselves. All these games already have LAN multiplayer enabled, they just need to be tricked into thinking your'e on the same local network as somebody over the internet. I don't mean to change anything in the games directly, just make use of the systems they already have.

[Start_Running]

引用自 Gurrier：

Using VPN to enable multiplayer LAN wouldn't require changing anything in the games themselves. All these games already have LAN multiplayer enabled, they just need to be tricked into thinking your'e on the same local network as somebody over the internet. I don't mean to change anything in the games directly, just make use of the systems they already have.

But that would be steam providing a feature that the publisher did not intend.
Again. bounce the idea to the publishers and they'll add it. That's the better avenue. There's also the problem that they is a limit to the ability to package third party software with a product you are selling.

[Muut]

I think this is a great idea, +1.

Wouldn't need any alterations to games, something like:

- Open Steam overlay
- "Start private network"
- Find somebody in the Friends list
- "Add Friend to private network"
- Temporary LAN IPs are displayed against names.
- Go go VPN LAN play.

It wouldn't be coercing the game into doing something that it's not supposed to - it's just a case of facilitating a game's existing LAN support by providing a (virtual) LAN.

Might be some technical challenges - Valve would need to provide infrastructure to support the traffic at low enough latency, with good enough up-time, to make it playable, and it might mean that the Steam client would have to install it's own network drivers.

From a user point of view it makes a lot of sense to me though - this would be a really nice feature, especially if it was set up to know what firewall settings the game needed and tunnelled those across as necessary to minimise messing about with routers etc.

[Gus the Crocodile]

引用自 Start_Running：

But that would be steam providing a feature that the publisher did not intend.

It absolutely would be, yes. Personally I only see that as a good thing; I'm glad we as a society don't limit ourselves to only creating things previous creators would have included at the time. Looking at something and seeing what you can build to complement it or improve access to it is wonderful.

[Fox]

引用自 Gus the Crocodile：

引用自 Start_Running：

But that would be steam providing a feature that the publisher did not intend.

It absolutely would be, yes. Personally I only see that as a good thing; I'm glad we as a society don't limit ourselves to only creating things previous creators would have included at the time. Looking at something and seeing what you can build to complement it or improve access to it is wonderful.

^This.

If the "publisher didn't intend that" argument is really a concern, it may be worth noting that "I only support multiplayer on LAN" may mean instead "I use a service that no longer exists for non-LAN multiplayer", Gamespy being the first example that came to mind.

[The_Driver]

引用自 Fox：

If the "publisher didn't intend that" argument is really a concern,

Why would it be? It's an environmental change. But as that doesn't change the game itself nor breaks the API, it should be of no concern. Heck, what would happen if windows would enable such a feature to the end-user via a few clicks? Would the publishers wreck havoc against microsoft for changing their set of features that the publisher didn't intend?

[Fox]

引用自 The_Driver：

Why would it be? It's an environmental change. But as that doesn't change the game itself nor breaks the API, it should be of no concern. [...]

...which is what I think, actually.

But since others may hold that as a concern, then it may be worth disproving that claim, as I've done following that sentence.

[Start_Running]

引用自 Gus the Crocodile：

引用自 Start_Running：

But that would be steam providing a feature that the publisher did not intend.

It absolutely would be, yes. Personally I only see that as a good thing; I'm glad we as a society don't limit ourselves to only creating things previous creators would have included at the time. Looking at something and seeing what you can build to complement it or improve access to it is wonderful.

No What I meant by that is, by integrating a featuire the publisher did not intend they open themselves up to having to solve every little provblem with the game thereafter. They will be taking on the role of the game's techsupport, Because they added something and thusly any problem can be deemed to be a result of what was added.

Also for some of these games the multiplayer feature was actually hardcoded out. I.e the actual parts that dealt with the multiplayer aspect no longer exist in the game's code.

hence why this sort of thing will always be the domain of third party apps.like hamachi.

[wuddih]

feel free to use 3rd party applications for this, integrated into steam, nope.

next to the thing that playing stuff over the internet that was not supposed to be played at higher latencies and given the point that some dev still do supporting for such titles, this is a usecase they dont have on their knowledgebase and costs time and money to please the customer, over something that probably already does not generate any proit anymore.

also a vpn environment is close to equal with a standard lan environment. in other words, you can access the local networking of all clients that are in the same vpn. the normal dumdum steam user does not know a flying poop about securing their local network in such usecases and the normal dumdum tends to do stuff with people on the internet they do not even know personally. so this is a security issue.

"b-b-but you could say they everyone is responsible for their..." .. doesn't work. the standard steam user has be caged in order to not make stupid crap. we know how well "freedom of choice" went with market confirmations.

[Gus the Crocodile]

引用自 Start_Running：

No What I meant by that is, by integrating a featuire the publisher did not intend they open themselves up to having to solve every little provblem with the game thereafter.

Well I would dispute the degree - I think they only really "open themselves up to" what they decide to open themselves up to - but sure, every feature comes with associated support costs. Valve might indeed decide it's not worth it for them. That's okay, that's their business, I'm not here to make predictions.

引用自 Start_Running：

Also for some of these games the multiplayer feature was actually hardcoded out. I.e the actual parts that dealt with the multiplayer aspect no longer exist in the game's code.

Sure, that's fine, I don't think anyone's expecting this feature to magically make every game multiplayer if it's not. If a game literally doesn't support LAN play then you wouldn't be using it with a feature like this, right?

[Start_Running]

引用自 Gus the Crocodile：

引用自 Start_Running：

No What I meant by that is, by integrating a featuire the publisher did not intend they open themselves up to having to solve every little provblem with the game thereafter.

Well I would dispute the degree - I think they only really "open themselves up to" what they decide to open themselves up to - but sure, every feature comes with associated support costs. Valve might indeed decide it's not worth it for them. That's okay, that's their business, I'm not here to make predictions.

Again. nope. Not quite how business works. This is why steam does not force things like cloudsaves which their system actually supports, because the devs have to willingly encode support for it. In fact every feature the steam API offers access to has to be willingly implemented by the developers. It's why not every game has VAC ... because the devs did not choose to implement it.

Once your forcibly implement something the devs did not. You basically assume all techsupport functions. This is actually a standing caveat with game mods. You mod it, you fix it.

Sure, that's fine, I don't think anyone's expecting this feature to magically make every game multiplayer if it's not. If a game literally doesn't support LAN play then you wouldn't be using it with a feature like this, right?

It doesn't support it becaus ethe dev chose not to support it. If a game does not have multiplayer listed in it's features on the store page then like wise the devs have chosen not to support it. and as I explained. Steam is not going to undertake the headache of being responsible for every thing that happens in games they force the vpn into..

As said. the user is free to do this themselves with third party apps like hamachio and thereby accept all the techsupport duties that come with getting it to work and troublshooting problems. The user wants it, so, the user do it.

[Muut]

Imo the value to us would be in Valve providing the technical facilities to play LAN games over Steam, and in making that fairly easy to do.

The value to Valve would be "Hey you can easily play [insert old classic game] multi-player on Steam now, if you join up and buy a copy from them".

Not everyone has the technical skills necessary to get a Hamachi install + server + client connections + router config working. The point of the feature would be to make it easy to do that.

I'd still argue that there's nothing about this which is against publisher intentions, or which would require any kind of modification to the games - if LAN play is supported already, it doesn't matter whether it's a physical LAN or a virtual-LAN that you're connecting over.

(Although of course there are caveats regarding latency and so on, but those are part and parcel of all VPN gaming services anyway).

But yes, it's probably kind of a commitment in terms of technical support ;)