Steam and Windows XP/Vista legacy client - discussion

[rvn515]

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=1558-AFCM-4577
There are games sold on the Steam during XP and Vista era, which are more stable and bug-free on these older systems. Ability to use them in their original environment would be very useful. All I'm asking is simplified client without community features, which will be able to download games and verify your licenses.

[Lord of the Infinite Clouds]

引用自 Black Blade：

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Beside that DRzm free games have all of the files and all dependent on how the developer set it

GOG has indeed its own market but becouse of it, it also lacks in games

If a game has DRM -- well, that's that and end of discussion. However, if not... then Valve has discretion. Compare to GOG ....we're now talking about non-DRM games on Steam.

GOG will include manuals, printouts, guidebooks and all sorts of extras for many of their retro titles. Many times these are tracked down and provided by folks who own physical copies in their collections. GOG doesn't get permission because they already have it when publishers agree to put their game on their platform. Now if you're talking DLC, expansion packs or separate content then that would be different.

As for the installers, this isn't provided by the publishers, either. First of all, GOG does the work to reconfigure them for Windows 9x games so they can run on newer OS. In fact these installers will usually not run on Windows 98 even though they are Windows 98 games, for example. They also are clearly marked with GOG when the installer is running.

Valve can provide simple .exe installers for their DRM-free games here and we can simply download the installer, transfer it our retro XP machine and install it there - Problem solved, no Legacy client needed . If a publisher retained DRM for these titles THEN and only then would they be responsible because Valve cannot provide installers for games that publishers have not agreed to sell DRM-free.

[Black Blade]

引用自 Infinite Clouds：

If a game has DRM -- well, that's that and end of discussion. However, if not... then Valve has discretion. Compare to GOG ....we're now talking about non-DRM games on Steam.

GOG will include manuals, printouts, guidebooks and all sorts of extras for many of their retro titles. Many times these are tracked down and provided by folks who own physical copies in their collections. GOG doesn't get permission because they already have it when publishers agree to put their game on their platform. Now if you're talking DLC, expansion packs or separate content then that would be different.

As for the installers, this isn't provided by the publishers, either. First of all, GOG does the work to reconfigure them for Windows 9x games so they can run on newer OS. In fact these installers will usually not run on Windows 98 even though they are Windows 98 games, for example. They also are clearly marked with GOG when the installer is running.

Valve can provide simple .exe installers for their DRM-free games here and we can simply download the installer, transfer it our retro XP machine and install it there - Problem solved, no Legacy client needed . If a publisher retained DRM for these titles THEN and only then would they be responsible because Valve cannot provide installers for games that publishers have not agreed to sell DRM-free.

But why pass the mess for DRM free? Just copy paste its folder and you done
At worst may need to manualy install libarys that come with it

[Lord of the Infinite Clouds]

Sometimes installers make changes to the registry, as well. These aren't done when you just copy/paste the directory.

Would you really think it was a bad thing if Valve started including an option to download an offline installer for their DRM-free titles?

[Spawn of Totoro]

引用自 Infinite Clouds：

Would you really think it was a bad thing if Valve started including an option to download an offline installer for their DRM-free titles?

What would be up to the devleoper, not Valve. Valve does not own the games or have any control over how the developer packages it. I am sure the developers could do as such with their game and still have it downloadable through Steam.

引用自 Infinite Clouds：

Sometimes installers make changes to the registry, as well. These aren't done when you just copy/paste the directory.

That can be added to the game's .exe, so if you copy it and it can't find the entries when it runs, it can create them.

[Lord of the Infinite Clouds]

GOG does not own the (most) of the games on their platform and they are the ones that package them -- evident by the GOG logo/branding all over the setup wizards for their installers.

[rvn515]

引用自 Black Blade：

引用自 rvn515：

<cut to short post>

I already said why your example here is honestly picking is not relevant, and not the part that it can be updated but the part that it's very much the same system on 16,17,18 and mint and so on on the side of how maintaining a Steam client for it is
A client made for 18 will work on 16
A client made for Windows 10/7 will not work on Windows XP

Please don't play it dumb

"Dealing with the situation by a note placed silently within documentation"
What are you talking about? there is a notification on the top of the client to link you to the info about it if you are on Windows XP or Vista
It's not burry anywhere its show on the client itself

XP going away like 97 and 95 did is not the same as Steam closing down

On top of all that I am yet waiting to find a game that is not working on Windows 10 and worked on XP because so far anything that come up seem to be working on the newer OS

As for the first part, that's the point of support and not ducking away. Besides, it can work now and I'm sure that they won't redesign everything clientside and serverside right after January, it just proves that they want to chicken out easily.
Not mine, everyone should be informed by emails or message.
Why not, that's "great" prognostic factor for the future. If you can solve this by one cut and not caring anymore, then there is no doubt how entire Steam will end. Well, it may end eventually, but, style is important thing.
Availability and compatibility with XP/Vista not being the same thing, that's quite strange, but that's how it looks for many games now. Anyway, it's easier to run games without bugs on their original systems.

[Black Blade]

引用自 rvn515：

As for the first part, that's the point of support and not ducking away. Besides, it can work now and I'm sure that they won't redesign everything clientside and serverside right after January, it just proves that they want to chicken out easily.
Not mine, everyone should be informed by emails or message.
Why not, that's "great" prognostic factor for the future. If you can solve this by one cut and not caring anymore, then there is no doubt how entire Steam will end. Well, it may end eventually, but, style is important thing.
Availability and compatibility with XP/Vista not being the same thing, that's quite strange, but that's how it looks for many games now. Anyway, it's easier to run games without bugs on their original systems.

You mean for very few games
So far most of the games that raised as having issues where running fine (Fallout) or where fixable (Far Cry reflections)

So I have to say with that, is there any real point of keeping that XP if most to all of this games are fixable or just work as is?
Or can someone really give a list of games that really don't work outside of XP all ready XD

[Lord of the Infinite Clouds]

I prefer to play the original Splinter Cell on my XP machine since you can only used the proper shadow rendering mode with a Geforce 3/4. There are no drivers for those cards on Windows 7+ that I know of.

[nikiiv]

Given the fact that there are games not working well on Windows 7/10, XP client should be supported, albeit just a minimal one for downloading games.

[Black Blade]

引用自 nikiiv：

Given the fact that there are games not working well on Windows 7/10, XP client should be supported, albeit just a minimal one for downloading games.

I really like if more will just point to this games except of saying they exist, or pointing to games that work just fine on Windows 10

引用自 Infinite Clouds：

I prefer to play the original Splinter Cell on my XP machine since you can only used the proper shadow rendering mode with a Geforce 3/4. There are no drivers for those cards on Windows 7+ that I know of.

Well alright guess that is the next one for me to look over at (and see if there are fixs to make it work well on Windows 10 like Farcry had it seems)

And as it seems I forgot so here is that Farcry patch I got:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=499278#p499143
All I did was to get the 64bit one and it then get in and take that photo, seem to be working all good

Edit

This is what I got from the first part
https://steamcommunity.com/id/Black4Blade/screenshot/960838140986150228

Can you provide an image on how its suppose to look in Windows XP so il know what I am aiming for?

[rvn515]

Still, I think that they can do more with basic support for those systems instead of cutting after one annoucement and that's all.
Again, I must do whatever it takes and try as long as I can to fix a game, but I cannot ask for longer support for downloading/starting games on XP/Vista, marvelous.

[Black Blade]

引用自 rvn515：

Still, I think that they can do more with basic support for those systems instead of cutting after one annoucement and that's all.
Again, I must do whatever it takes and try as long as I can to fix a game, but I cannot ask for longer support for downloading/starting games on XP/Vista, marvelous.

You welcome to ask
And others are welcome to tell you why they don't think its likely to happen and recommend that you prepare as much as you can from the time that it will happen

[Lord of the Infinite Clouds]

引用自 Black Blade：

Edit

This is what I got from the first part
https://steamcommunity.com/id/Black4Blade/screenshot/960838140986150228

Can you provide an image on how its suppose to look in Windows XP so il know what I am aiming for?

https://www.nvidia.com/docs/io/3267/large4.jpg

https://www.nvidia.com/object/game_splintercell.html scroll down to the bottom for more.


https://youtu.be/nB9BTbtNyDw?t=1062

Here's a video showing with/without buffers -- skip to 17:41 if timestamp link doesn't work. The issue here isn't Windows XP vs Windows 7 as much as it is that you that this feature is not supported by hardware other than the Geforce 3/4 series. Even if you could build a pre-PCIexpress (AGP) system that is fast enough to run Windows 7 there won't be any drivers for these cards, to my knowledge.

Until dgVoodoo finishes their work on the G3/4 wrappers for this game a retro rig is still the best way to play this -- or an XBOX.

[AllTracTurbo]

This is going to be a big problem. There are hundreds of games on Steam that specifically state in their requirements that they only support up to Windows XP and do not work on newer operating systems.

Yes, you may be able to get some of these games to work with or without a user made patch, but the games usually still have bugs and do not run properly. Just go read the reviews on any Rockstar game older than LA Noire.

If you do a google search for: site:store.steampowered.com "XP Only", You can find tons of games on Steam that were only meant to work on systems up to XP. The results bring up the game manual, but if you just copy the game id from the URL, you can pull up the game on Steam. If you read the reviews of these games, there are tons of people complaining about bugs trying to run the games on newer operating systems.

I enjoy playing old games and I specifically keep a copy of Win XP installed that I can dual boot into. The only reason I keep XP around is so that I can play the older games without dealing with problems. I have bought a large number of these games that do not run properly on OS's newer than XP with the intention of running them on XP, but now Steam is saying that I will not be able to play them? How can Steam sell me a game that specifically states it only runs on a certain operating system and then lock me out of being able to install the game because Steam will not run on the operating system that the game runs on?

We need a very simple Steam client specifically for old operating systems. The client doesn't need any features other than just a list of your games and a button to install/uninstall them. It doesn't need a steam overlay, store, friends, messages, screenshots, achievements, cards, just the ability to connect and download a game.

[Black Blade]

引用自 Infinite Clouds：

https://www.nvidia.com/docs/io/3267/large4.jpg

https://www.nvidia.com/object/game_splintercell.html scroll down to the bottom for more.


https://youtu.be/nB9BTbtNyDw?t=1062

Here's a video showing with/without buffers -- skip to 17:41 if timestamp link doesn't work. The issue here isn't Windows XP vs Windows 7 as much as it is that you that this feature is not supported by hardware other than the Geforce 3/4 series. Even if you could build a pre-PCIexpress (AGP) system that is fast enough to run Windows 7 there won't be any drivers for these cards, to my knowledge.

Until dgVoodoo finishes their work on the G3/4 wrappers for this game a retro rig is still the best way to play this -- or an XBOX.

Thank you very much looking into it

引用自 AllTracTurbo：

This is going to be a big problem. There are hundreds of games on Steam that specifically state in their requirements that they only support up to Windows XP and do not work on newer operating systems.

Yes, you may be able to get some of these games to work with or without a user made patch, but the games usually still have bugs and do not run properly. Just go read the reviews on any Rockstar game older than LA Noire.

If you do a google search for: site:store.steampowered.com "XP Only", You can find tons of games on Steam that were only meant to work on systems up to XP. The results bring up the game manual, but if you just copy the game id from the URL, you can pull up the game on Steam. If you read the reviews of these games, there are tons of people complaining about bugs trying to run the games on newer operating systems.

I enjoy playing old games and I specifically keep a copy of Win XP installed that I can dual boot into. The only reason I keep XP around is so that I can play the older games without dealing with problems. I have bought a large number of these games that do not run properly on OS's newer than XP with the intention of running them on XP, but now Steam is saying that I will not be able to play them? How can Steam sell me a game that specifically states it only runs on a certain operating system and then lock me out of being able to install the game because Steam will not run on the operating system that the game runs on?

We need a very simple Steam client specifically for old operating systems. The client doesn't need any features other than just a list of your games and a button to install/uninstall them. It doesn't need a steam overlay, store, friends, messages, screenshots, achievements, cards, just the ability to connect and download a game.

Can you please point to this games?
I dont think I ever seen a game stating it dose not run after XP
And so most to all the tales about games not working where tested to be false at worst a small patch or edit of a file to get it working
Honstly looking for not working games

Besides GTA 1, 2, 3 work on Windows 10 so not sure what before LA you talking about