Suggestion - Require games to post if Anti Cheat Software is required.

[Deric Carter]

This is becoming a bigger problem than one would hope or expect. Anti Cheat Software being required in games and no information on the store page unless the publishers post it.

This should be required. Why purchase a game and it be assumed we also want the Anti Cheat garbage to go with it.

It's intrusive to one's system, and with the recent scandal with Chinese based companies, we should be aware of what software is required to play a game on the Steam platform.

Steam to me has always been a safe haven so to speak, I am very selective of what games i play and buy. I grudgingly accepted BattleEye, I'm currently rethinking my relationship with them.

However, from a business point of view, The hardware specs required are provided in the details, why aren't the software requirements short of O.S. Talk about false advertisement.

My recent example would be Rising Storm 2 which requires people to use their product to have EAC installed. EAC is created by Epic Games, Epic games is 40% owned by a Chinese company Tencent. Never mind the fact that the Chinese government owns their companies and companies are required to provide information to the Chinese government on demand. (Never mind that.)

But, Epic Games and Riot Games have been compromised numerous times affording talented hackers the ability to infiltrate people's personal computers for their own reasons. Converting personal computers into bitcoin miners, proxy for illegal activities, spoofing for scam calls, collecting sensitive information, etc.

I'm not asking anything drastic like removing games affiliated. I'm merely suggesting steam dodge a potential bullet, Let the players know what software is required to play a game. Mandate the publishers of these games to be transparent.

It saves steam on returns, it helps people be informed. And I can't see it being a very hard task for anyone to simply cite, "This game requires XYZ to run." As you already have in the Hardware selection. Win win for everyone.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Just a little correction in your post:

EAC was not created by Epic Games. It was created by KAMU and Epic letter bought them out in 2018.

[Zekiran]

You have a decision to make:

Play multiplayer games that come with the anti-cheat software allowing people to play against one another with a reasonable expectation of a less cheat-ridden experience,

or

Have a game that doesn't have a cheat detection and is absolutely *filled* with cheaters.

Have you taken a look at the Vac section here?

how about all the various threads about "THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING DONE OMG CHEATERS!!!" ?

Do you want a game where people play against one another?

Then you probably also want to play without a pack of cheaters. One might imagine that you need to understand that, before complaining that there are cheat detection systems on most multiplayer games, and that they do their job reasonably well. They aren't cumbersome, however as you've pointed out, some companies haven't implemented them very well.

Personally, I would *expect* an anti-cheat to come with any multiplayer game. Period. I'd rather know before hand, that it did NOT come with one: so I could avoid the crap out of it, I don't even play mp games, but even I know that would just be a craptastic waste of my money and time.

[Deric Carter]

Thank you Spawn of Totoro for the update.



Well I generally play on my own dedicated servers, If I personally suspect a hacker I just kick and or ban them. I don't need a third party software to govern my gaming experience multiplier or otherwise. Even if they aren't cheating, it's not my problem, nor is it their problem. They can jump onto someone elses server and be 1337 with their epicness. I disagree that games are producing games with exclusives to gaming server providers, I disagree that I'm forced to use "Official Servers", I disagree with me not having the freedom to play a game that I paid for the way I want to play it within the boundaries of the game. I'm not going to tell game designers they are required to produce those types of games. All I'm saying is, Give me a heads up that when I buy your product, I'm expected to also have XYZ installed.

And furthermore, I am not saying we do without. I'm simply suggesting more transparent through steam.

By allowing them to be more transparent, there would hopefully be a bit of consumer impact as to what players are willing to tolerate as far as intrusive software on our computers. I've looked into VAC and BE, both seem to be reasonable, even though they have also been bypassed. DayZ Servers have reported lower hacker participation due to BE/s efforts to reduce it.

However, I am still concerned that not every Anti cheat software are alike, and some have more influence over our computers than others.

I could go on and on about my personal thoughts, they will be challenged or argued by people that don't share my experiences. It isn't hard to simply mandate the publishers (Whom I assume post their games to steam) are required to put in an additional information.


Single Player
Multiplayer Online
Multiplayer Co-Op
Anti Cheat: VAC / EAC / BE / Etc.

It's not hard, it's not taxing, and if me as a consumer wants to avoid one flavor of Anti cheat vs another I should know that before I drop down money for a game. Likewise, Game designers may want to know that people aren't willing to play their games if they choose XYZ titles.

[crunchyfrog]

Yeah, but the thing is, asZekiran rightly points out, it's as good as the default to have anti cheat in an online game - it's EXPECTED.

So why list something that is a standard?

I appreciate YOUR particular situation it would be helpful, but sadly you are in a VERY small minority where these things apply.

So, sorry, it's not on the face of it a bad idea, it's just so small as to be WAY down near the back of the queue.

[Zekiran]

I do see the point in saying WHICH one of them they're using, however that is 100% up to the publisher of the game, and not steam, to put on their store page. In the end, it always comes down to each individual publisher. Steam cannot force them to divulge anything. It's their page, not Steam's.

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by Zekiran:

I do see the point in saying WHICH one of them they're using, however that is 100% up to the publisher of the game, and not steam, to put on their store page. In the end, it always comes down to each individual publisher. Steam cannot force them to divulge anything. It's their page, not Steam's.

I agree with that and support it. It would indeed be neat to see which method of anticheat it is using.

But yes, that would involve unity from publishers and devs, and I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by Zekiran:

I do see the point in saying WHICH one of them they're using.

Most of the time wanting to know 'which' AC a game is used is mostly rooted on FUD read about them over the internet and a lack of knowledge of how AC software operates.

It's kind of amusing how in the last years there's been a drift in how cheaters try to get around AC software and how lately there's a trend of simply smearing AC softwares and spread FUDs about it trying to get people's scared of having that piece of software installed.

(It's something you can see it reproduced almost point to point in regards DRM measures too.)

Originally posted by Zekiran:

Have a game that doesn't have a cheat detection and is absolutely *filled* with cheaters.

Any MP game without any AC is dead on the water, simply put. It's the equivalent of leaving a cake at a school's doorstep.

[crunchyfrog]

Originally posted by Tito Shivan:

Originally posted by Zekiran:

I do see the point in saying WHICH one of them they're using.

Most of the time wanting to know 'which' AC a game is used is mostly rooted on FUD read about them over the internet and a lack of knowledge of how AC software operates.

It's kind of amusing how in the last years there's been a drift in how cheaters try to get around AC software and how lately there's a trend of simply smearing AC softwares and spread FUDs about it trying to get people's scared of having that piece of software installed.

(It's something you can see it reproduced almost point to point in regards DRM measures too.)

Originally posted by Zekiran:

Have a game that doesn't have a cheat detection and is absolutely *filled* with cheaters.

Any MP game without any AC is dead on the water, simply put. It's the equivalent of leaving a cake at a school's doorstep.

Oh boy, do you hit a point about the pile on effect and myth-making when it comes to certain things like DRM.

There's some real issues, true, but you will ALWAYS find posts that it abused the user's grandmother while she was sleeping and other crap.

[zaphodikus]

Oh, lets also require games to specify how much RAM you need to play the game? We have this for VR and specific controllers in the library already, so one more way to confuse people for whom it's not a deal breaker, obfuscates.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Tito Shivan:

Any competitive MP game without any AC is dead on the water, simply put. It's the equivalent of leaving a cake at a school's doorstep.

Fixed.

Co-op games don't really need AC, imho.

[Zekiran]

Indeed, demonstrably misinformation and knee jerking is a huge component in this aversion.

Originally posted by zaphodikus:

Oh, lets also require games to specify how much RAM you need to play the game? We have this for VR and specific controllers in the library already, so one more way to confuse people for whom it's not a deal breaker, obfuscates.

Again, this is 100% up to the developer and publisher to put that information on their page AND keep it updated - which is part of the problem. Specs and requirements change, sometimes radically. If they don't dedicate a person to keep their store pages updated, it's still going to get complained to Steam about it - and they ... can still do *nothing*.

Google goes a long way. I am still absolutely of the opinion that a search online >>>>>>>> trusting a store page in any way for any of this. It's REALLY easy to find out all of this just... you know, *searching the damn internet*.

[Deric Carter]

I have no idea how any of you are coming up with this myth that we need to remove Anti Cheat Software, Not one word in my statements have suggested removing it. There is nothing wrong with transparency, In fact I would argue that this idea of a hidden agenda would strictly be in the hands of someone trying to push more Anti Cheat free rain, or more Anti Cheat suppression.


Steam is not responsible for the Information posted about a game. All of that is plugged in by the Publisher of the game. Steam is simply the Platform, the mode of information.

It's kinda like Ebay for PC Games with no auction option. Steam Provides the publisher Server Space and a Check box where information is input about the game.

In that check box list is Mandated Information, and Not mandated information, (Optional) Information. The Publisher plugs in the mandated section, "XYZ about a game, Like, Game Name, Game System Requirements." The Publisher chooses to plug in Optional information like, "Game is Multiplayer, Game has Awesome Epic XYZ of XYZ with new Unreal XYZ."

And what I'm suggesting, Which is information the Publisher would know, is, under the Mandated check boxes, Where it currently doesn't say, "Anti Cheat" there should be a box that says, "Anti Cheat" Where the publisher would put, XYZ. When us the consumer looks over the game, we would see, Anti Cheat.

Now you say I'm a small minority, Fair, VR community is still one of the smallest communities in the gaming world. We have their information posted, Retro Gamers are another extremely small portion of the gaming community, We have their information posted on games, Interactive Chinese Gaming books where they only attract 5 people to review it and 7 downloads, have their own platform and information to plug in.

So if the minority majority is a factor, How many people needs to sign a petition for this to be imbedded? This is a Suggestion box for updates to Steam client. And adding a check box to a fill out form, is not hard, but if a number of users want it, What is that number?

You say it's expected? Sure, no one is disputing that, I would still like to know which software is tied to a game to determine whether or not I would buy the game.

With the logic that is floating around, What is to stop game producers for Requiring your machine to have a Keylogger imbedded in your computer? Whats to stop them from just uploading fly by night early release games with Key Logging in the software? We shouldn't ask for transparency? At what point would it be intrusive and we should just "Accept it" I'm sorry, I enjoy gaming, but I don't enjoy it enough to sell my life to any tom ♥♥♥♥ and harry that wants my personal information. And I think it's extremely reasonable to know what third party software is being tied to a game I'm using my money to buy.

And there hasn't been 1 game any of us has played that hasn't been hacked. Every single form of Anti Cheat out there to date has been breached. So, disclosing which Anti Cheat a game has is meaningless, Since Hackers don't specifically zero in to hack games that they have access to. "Oh, Look, There is a game I don't have but I know how to hack, Lemme Buy that game and go hack it." That's simply stupid.

Check Box for publisher, "Hey does your game have Anti Cheat Software that the client needs to have?" Not hard, not even worth some Conspiracy theory.

[Zekiran]

Literally everything you just spewed is easily available information found online with a simple search.

And you aren't a coder, I can see that, by virtue of the "it's easy!" ... no, sir, it is not. it is never, EVER, that easy.

How would you handle the thousands of store pages that exist right now?

What if the publisher doesn't WANT to divulge that information? How could you tell based on a store page's information whether they purposefully or accidentally left it off or didn't participate in modifying their pages voluntarily?

And no, this is not a 'petition' area. Petitions are neither functional nor approved here, note that they don't exist as a posting option for a reason. Just because a lot of people think something, doesn't mean any company - from Steam to the smallest indie publisher - needs to use that thing.

[Deric Carter]

Mordhau posts "VAC Anti Cheat" Which tells me it's already an option. It should be Mandated.

Rising Storm Does not post Anti Cheat Software.

So literally, going into the server and mandating that information be provided.

So Yeah, It's not even hard work.

Second, "ITS ALL ONLINE GOOGLE IT" with all due respect, Is dumb. With that logic Remove all details about the game on Steam Store, None of it's required, you can Google it.

Like, Seriously stop trolling.

"What if the publisher doesn't WANT to divulge that information? How could you tell based on a store page's information whether they purposefully or accidentally left it off or didn't participate in modifying their pages voluntarily?" Is directly controdiction to "Literally everything you just spewed is easily available information found online with a simple search."


"How would you handle the thousands of store pages that exist right now?"

How most major platforms change information required. Periodically Retail side of software gets updated, New options are avaliable, When Steam Updates their processes they need to inform modders and publishers of changes so that they can adapt their games to continue working with steam. Games are offered and removed all the time on steam. In the same mode it informs modders and publishers that they are using a new client build adjust accordingly, they can also add, "These are the games that don't have listed Required software filled in, Do it by Said date."

Gradual implimentation generally works best with large scale projects. And Steam would have to go to their database, set the Anti Cheat section value required, Maybe adjust the client end, And send a memo through the same channels modders, developers and publishers receive. "Hey all, Changes coming, Just plug in what Third party Software is required with your games so our users know if they want to install that crap on their computers."

[Zekiran]

You really, REALLY overestimate the amount of control that Steam has over any of that.