Remove the Rusty Hearts community hub

[Phoenix (yes, another one)]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/36630

Rusty Hearts was a service based online game, where the hub in question was associated to the NA/EU release published/hosted by Perfect World Entertainment/Arc, who back in 2014 shut down their services for the game. THE GAME CAN NO LONGER BE PLAYED, it's over, dead, all the legal publishers on the planet have dropped it years ago, and the developers seem to be out of business as well. The function of that hub was to support the fore mentioned NA/EU release, and that service has long since ended, so the function of the hub has also ended. Although unlike other publishers of cancelled service based online games, the publisher never bothered to shut down the Steam hub for this game, and has also been completely ignoring it.

Leaving it up so people can discuss, and advertise illegal private servers, which has basically become the only thing it's used for, is against the rules of Steam forums, and even can be considered against the law, as they are illegal services. It serves no function, or value to Valve, or the former publisher to leave it up, but due to what it has been used to do for quite some time now, could be potentially detrimental to both. Since the publisher can't seem to be bothered to remove it, Valve should step up, and do so.

[Gwarsbane]

If you don't like whats going on there report it with the little flags on the threads. Otherwise just unsubscribe and ignore it.

The makers of the game and Valve have a contract and Valve just can't break that contract just because no one is playing the game anymore. The makers of the game would have had to break the contract in some way and if that did not happen, then removal of the hub will not happen.

[wuddih]

dunno anything about the state of this game but it wouldn't be the first time a game is actually kept alive by the playerbase despite the developer shutting down .. and it is not like this gamehub does cost anything.

simple thing, if you dont wanna see it, simply dont go there. no one forces you.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Please keep the game hub there. Many people, including myself, have fond memories of playing it on Steam.

[Phoenix (yes, another one)]

Originally posted by 999999999:

If users still have the game, the hub should still be available.

You don't get it, it's an online only game, and ALL the legal publishers on the planet have shut it down, with no publisher, you can't play it. It's not like for some offline game that had its publisher, and/or developer go out of business, so the game still works, and can be played, without a publisher of an online only game, you just flat out can't play it, at all.

Originally posted by Gwarsbane:

If you don't like whats going on there report it with the little flags on the threads. Otherwise just unsubscribe and ignore it.

The makers of the game and Valve have a contract and Valve just can't break that contract just because no one is playing the game anymore. The makers of the game would have had to break the contract in some way and if that did not happen, then removal of the hub will not happen.

The hub has no moderation, as it has been completely abandoned by the publisher of the game which dropped it years ago already, they just never bothered to remove the Steam hub of it. The developers of the game are also out of business, so there's no contracts involved at all, it's just a completely abandoned game hub that currently is pretty much only used to make posts/threads that are in violation of Steam rules, but without moderation, those posts/threads are never removed.

Originally posted by Quint the Glowing Bitter Oyster:

Please keep the game hub there. Many people, including myself, have fond memories of playing it on Steam.

Except the only thing it's really being used for is to discuss, and advertise illegal private servers. Steam rules indicate you can't use the forums of a game for the purpose of advertising, so that's one strike there. Then private servers of online games are illegal, as they have no legal rights to host that game, so there's another strike against it.

By leaving it up, and given the content of pretty much the only posts that seem to be made there, Valve is effectively indirectly supporting illegal activities. The thing clearly has no active moderation, since those sort of posts/threads which are in clear violation of Steam rules even when reported, aren't removed, so that just leaves Valve removing the whole thing as the proper course of action.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by Phoenix (yes, another one):

Originally posted by 999999999:

If users still have the game, the hub should still be available.

You don't get it, it's an online only game, and ALL the legal publishers on the planet have shut it down, with no publisher, you can't play it. It's not like for some offline game that had its publisher, and/or developer go out of business, so the game still works, and can be played, without a publisher of an online only game, you just flat out can't play it, at all.

Originally posted by Quint the Glowing Bitter Oyster:

Please keep the game hub there. Many people, including myself, have fond memories of playing it on Steam.

Except the only thing it's really being used for is to discuss, and advertise illegal private servers. Steam rules indicate you can't use the forums of a game for the purpose of advertising, so that's one strike there. Then private servers of online games are illegal, as they have no legal rights to host that game, so there's another strike against it. By leaving it up, and given the content of pretty much the only posts that seem to be made there, Valve is effectively indirectly supporting illegal activities.

Then I think this is something that the copyright holder should be addressing, not us. They'd actually have legal standing to claim to be hurt by such allegedly illegal activities.

Not to mention that copyright law and the entertainment business is a little more complicated than simply declaring things illegal and that's that. In fact, the copyright holder may even have an interest in allowing these allegedly illegal servers to flourish in order to see whether they should jump back into the game with a relaunch, remake, or spinoff game. This stuff may be useful for gauging potential market share/customer base.

[Phoenix (yes, another one)]

Originally posted by Quint the Glowing Bitter Oyster:

Then I think this is something that the copyright holder should be addressing, not us. They'd actually have legal standing to claim to be hurt by such allegedly illegal activities.

Not to mention that copyright law and the entertainment business is a little more complicated than simply declaring things illegal and that's that. In fact, the copyright holder may even have an interest in allowing these allegedly illegal servers to flourish in order to see whether they should jump back into the game with a relaunch, remake, or spinoff game. This stuff may be useful for gauging potential market share/customer base.

The developers are out of business too, and the NA/EU publisher (which is the one that put it on Steam) dropped the game years ago. Private servers of online service games are flat out illegal, there is no grey area, they have zero legal claim on the content they're releasing, and trying to make money from, and again, discussing/advertising such services is pretty much the only thing going on in that forum now for quite some time.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by Phoenix (yes, another one):

Originally posted by Quint the Glowing Bitter Oyster:

Then I think this is something that the copyright holder should be addressing, not us. They'd actually have legal standing to claim to be hurt by such allegedly illegal activities.

Not to mention that copyright law and the entertainment business is a little more complicated than simply declaring things illegal and that's that. In fact, the copyright holder may even have an interest in allowing these allegedly illegal servers to flourish in order to see whether they should jump back into the game with a relaunch, remake, or spinoff game. This stuff may be useful for gauging potential market share/customer base.

The developers are out of business too, and the NA/EU publisher (which is the one that put it on Steam) dropped the game years ago. Private servers of online service games are flat out illegal, there is no grey area, they have zero legal claim on the content they're releasing, and trying to make money from, and again, discussing/advertising such services is pretty much the only thing going on in that forum now for quite some time.

And someone out there is the copyright holder, not me, and presumably not you as well or else you'd have written up something more formal than a Steam forum thread complaining about this.

I'm simply saying that they're the ones with proper legal standing to rightfully complain about this.

[Phoenix (yes, another one)]

Originally posted by Quint the Glowing Bitter Oyster:

And someone out there is the copyright holder, not me, and presumably not you as well or else you'd have written up something more formal than a Steam forum thread complaining about this.

I'm simply saying that they're the ones with proper legal standing to rightfully complain about this.

This isn't some grey area issue. The game is dead, flat out dead, and the only thing really going on in the forums is activity against Steam forum rules. Then as private servers of online games are objectively illegal, by continuing to host that hub, Valve is effectively assisting in the matter by hosting what is likely the highest profile English language venue to advertise them. If illegal activity is going on in something you control, and you do nothing to stop it, you're effectively an accomplice to the act. There's just no value to Valve in leaving it up, but should some legal rights holder decide to take action, there is a potential amount of harm to Valve for leaving them up.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by Phoenix (yes, another one):

Originally posted by Quint the Glowing Bitter Oyster:

And someone out there is the copyright holder, not me, and presumably not you as well or else you'd have written up something more formal than a Steam forum thread complaining about this.

I'm simply saying that they're the ones with proper legal standing to rightfully complain about this.

This isn't some grey area issue. The game is dead, flat out dead, and the only thing really going on in the forums is activity against Steam forum rules. Then as private servers of online games are objectively illegal, by continuing to host that hub, Valve is effectively assisting in the matter by hosting what is likely the highest profile English language venue to advertise them. If illegal activity is going on in something you control, and you do nothing to stop it, you're effectively an accomplice to the act. There's just no value to Valve in leaving it up, but should some legal rights holder decide to take action, there is a potential amount of harm to Valve for leaving them up.

And the party with legal standing to actually take legal action does not seem to be either of us.

Not to mention that, as you observe, the game hub is basically advertising the game and keeping the playerbase alive, and in preparation for any re-release, remake, or spinoff that the current rights holder or a future rights holder may make. So even if it may be in their legal right to ask for the forum to be shut down, it may be against their economic interest to do so, which would be more important.

Do keep in mind that trademarks require regular legal defending to keep them active, but copyrights don't, and this is a copyright issue we're dealing with here.

[Phoenix (yes, another one)]

Originally posted by Quint the Glowing Bitter Oyster:

And the party with legal standing to actually take legal action does not seem to be either of us.

Not to mention that, as you observe, the game hub is basically advertising the game and keeping the playerbase alive, and in preparation for any re-release, remake, or spinoff that the current rights holder or a future rights holder may make. So even if it may be in their legal right to ask for the forum to be shut down, it may be against their economic interest to do so, which would be more important.

Do keep in mind that trademarks require regular legal defending to keep them active, but copyrights don't, and this is a copyright issue we're dealing with here.

The game is dead, dead, dead, dead, there is no player base, as there is no game to play. All the publishers around the world dropped it, and the developers in South Korea are out of business, it's dead. There's no contracts issue, and there's no copyright issue outside of the illegal private servers.

Then people are not discussing the game, people are really only advertising illegal private servers. If some drug dealer tried to set up shop in your backyard, would you just leave it as is, or would you call the cops? Valve is hosting the hub, and Valve ultimately is responsible for what goes on there, so if there is no value to Valve in leaving it up, but there is potential for harm by leaving it up, exactly how can it be argued that they should leave it up? Perfect World/Arc should have removed it years ago when they shut the servers down, like other companies in such a situation have, but they're lazy as heck, and took about a year to remove the forums for the game from their own servers.

[Moderate my posterior.]

If there's no contract and there's no copyright issue, and there's no one being harmed there is no crime by your logic. therefore there is no reason for Valve to remove it. The servers are not illegal if there's no copyright issue.

[Sovietball]

Originally posted by Phoenix (yes, another one):

Originally posted by Quint the Glowing Bitter Oyster:

And the party with legal standing to actually take legal action does not seem to be either of us.

Not to mention that, as you observe, the game hub is basically advertising the game and keeping the playerbase alive, and in preparation for any re-release, remake, or spinoff that the current rights holder or a future rights holder may make. So even if it may be in their legal right to ask for the forum to be shut down, it may be against their economic interest to do so, which would be more important.

Do keep in mind that trademarks require regular legal defending to keep them active, but copyrights don't, and this is a copyright issue we're dealing with here.

The game is dead, dead, dead, dead, there is no player base, as there is no game to play. All the publishers around the world dropped it, and the developers in South Korea are out of business, it's dead. There's no contracts issue, and there's no copyright issue outside of the illegal private servers.

Then people are not discussing the game, people are really only advertising illegal private servers. If some drug dealer tried to set up shop in your backyard, would you just leave it as is, or would you call the cops? Valve is hosting the hub, and Valve ultimately is responsible for what goes on there, so if there is no value to Valve in leaving it up, but there is potential for harm by leaving it up, exactly how can it be argued that they should leave it up? Perfect World/Arc should have removed it years ago when they shut the servers down, like other companies in such a situation have, but they're lazy as heck, and took about a year to remove the forums for the game from their own servers.

How are the servers illegal?

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by Phoenix (yes, another one):

Originally posted by Quint the Glowing Bitter Oyster:

And the party with legal standing to actually take legal action does not seem to be either of us.

Not to mention that, as you observe, the game hub is basically advertising the game and keeping the playerbase alive, and in preparation for any re-release, remake, or spinoff that the current rights holder or a future rights holder may make. So even if it may be in their legal right to ask for the forum to be shut down, it may be against their economic interest to do so, which would be more important.

Do keep in mind that trademarks require regular legal defending to keep them active, but copyrights don't, and this is a copyright issue we're dealing with here.

The game is dead, dead, dead, dead, there is no player base, as there is no game to play. All the publishers around the world dropped it, and the developers in South Korea are out of business, it's dead. There's no contracts issue, and there's no copyright issue outside of the illegal private servers.

Then people are not discussing the game, people are really only advertising illegal private servers. If some drug dealer tried to set up shop in your backyard, would you just leave it as is, or would you call the cops? Valve is hosting the hub, and Valve ultimately is responsible for what goes on there, so if there is no value to Valve in leaving it up, but there is potential for harm by leaving it up, exactly how can it be argued that they should leave it up? Perfect World/Arc should have removed it years ago when they shut the servers down, like other companies in such a situation have, but they're lazy as heck, and took about a year to remove the forums for the game from their own servers.

If the game is as dead as you say it is, then there would clearly be no more interest in or demand for it...which there is. You yourself have posted in that forum so you know it first hand.

Also you call the cops for criminal cases such as drug dealers, not for civil cases like this.

There's potential harm in a darn lot of things. At the very least, it should be someone with standing to complain. Not us.

Simply saying "it's illegal" ignores the context within which a thing exists, which can be very important.

[Smugass Braixen-Chan]

This thread is incredibly stupid. There is a hub for every single game that has ever been on Steam, even if it is no longer available anymore.

Even Watch Paint Dry's community hub is open, and that "game" was put up onto Steam via somebody hacking into the system
https://steamcommunity.com/app/445730

[Phoenix (yes, another one)]

Both the store page, and community game hub of a game can, and have been removed before when a game like this shuts down, such as for Dark Blood ( http://steamcommunity.com/app/267790/discussions/ ). If you were to use a saved direct link to such a hub/forums, you would instead bring up the Steam store main page.

If you left something you don't use out in your front/back yard, and someone took it without consent, it's still regarded as theft, which is illegal. The people hosting private servers of online games have no legal ownership of, or permission to publish the games in question, so yes, such private servers are illegal according to the law. If fans wanted legal ownership of shut down games there are channels to go through to obtain them, the people hosting private servers haven't done that though, so they have no legal grounds to publish such games, whether they are charged, or not is a separate issue. Many people love to pirate games, distribute fan sub videos of anime, and so forth, then try to claim it's legal, when it's not, what people publishing these private servers are doing is basically the same.

Steam forum rules state they can't be used for advertising, which is pretty much all people have been doing with it for the past few years, advertising private servers. When what is being advertised turns out to also be illegal, then they're made all that much worse.