Is it LEGAL to sell boxed games with MISSING install DVDs, Valve ?

[flowingriver777]

I am somebody who likes to walk into games shops and pick up physical copies of games. I like to put the game box on my shelf next to other games I have legally bought in the last 25 years. Unfortunately, just about any Steam-linked game comes with missing install DVDs in the box. Often there is just 1 install DVD in the box where there should be 3, 4 or 5. You have to download the rest of the game from Steam, which takes several hours on my slow internet connection and eats into my 50GB a month ADSL data download cap horribly.

These boxed games cost anywhere from 20 to 100 Dollars where I buy them. Install DVDs cost just a few cents a piece to press and include in a game box in 2018. Yet the install DVDs are ALWAYS - strangely - missing from the boxed Steam games I buy. You rattle the shrinkwrapped game box in the store a bit and think you hear the install DVDs included inside. You open the box post-purchase and it turns out there is just 1 DVD - the rest of the install DVDs are NOT in the box. About 80% of the game you just bought for 60 to 80 Dollars or so is NOT INCLUDED INSIDE THE PHYSICAL GAME BOX. It sits on an internet server operated by your company.

My question to you, Valve, is very simple. Is what you are doing actually LEGAL in the dozens of countries you appear to be doing this in?

You - the paying consumer - are being sold a physical box that APPEARS to include the full game on install DVDs. That is what you are paying money for in the store. Yet the install DVDs - costing just cents to include in the box - are NOT in the box when you open it.

Could a film studio sell a Blu-Ray collection called "The Complete Alien Films Collection" for 120 Dollars, and then get away with including just 1 Alien movie on Blu-Ray, and requiring you to download the rest of the Alien films from the Internet?

Might said film studio get SUED by consumers for trying to pull such a cheap stunt?

Then why do YOU, Valve, pull this exact stunt with just about every physical game box sold in bricks and mortar retail stores?

How many other products are there where you are sold something in a physical box that can perfectly hold 3 to 5 optical discs, and only the 1st install disc is included in the box?

Why does the box make a SOUND like several discs are in it when you shake it a bit, and then there is only 1 install disc included when you open it?

Have you people even CHECKED whether doing this is LEGAL in the countries you do this in?

Giving the APPEARANCE that you are buying a read-to-use physical copy of something, and then finding out AFTER opening the box that 80% of the GAME DATA you bought is NOT in the box?

Or did you just say "We are Steam. We are big now. We can do whatever we want."?

Please tell me, Valve. What does a man have to do these days to be able to get a complete set of install DVDs when buying a game in a store?

In the 1980s, you got all your game discs in the box.

In the 1990s, you got all your game discs in the box.

In the 2000s, you got all your game discs in the box.

In the 2010s, VALVE suddenly decided that there should only be 1 little disc in the box, and the other 3 or 4 or 5 floating somewhere in the Internet cloud.


One more time - Is what you are doing actually LEGAL, Valve?

Bonus question - If it is LEGAL in some countries - I'm guessing that in many it actually isn't - is doing business this way ETHICAL?

Is this how the game buying experience in a physical store should be? 60 to 100 Dollars for a physical game box with 3, 4, 5 install discs MISSING from the box?


Thank you for your time, Valve. Lets see if you people can provide an even halfway coherent answer to my questions.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

To be fair, you'd be surprised how many people still don't own a BD drive on their computers. It's the reason why -still- most of physical media is delivered on DVDs. You don't want to shoot you in the foot by deliver a physical media a good chunk of your userbase isn't even going to be able to read.

That is mainly due to the lack of software to play blu-ray movies with, due to the copyright protection on them. I know that is why I never got one. Would rather just keep the $20 DVD burner instead.

Then there are Computer Makers who have been removing drives optical drives from what they sell now and even sell computers with no bays for said drives.

The Hundredth Chlamydian님이 먼저 게시:

Yeah it's sad consoles have taken over the EB Games in my area. I remember in early 2000s there was a wall of pc games now I don't even bother walking into the stores.

Consoles are slowly heading the same way though and will be digital only in the future at some point.

cSg|mc-Hotsauce님이 먼저 게시:

Our Gamestops here have 1 shelf deticated to PC games. Only top selling ones though. So a few CODs, GTAs and a couple Blizzard games.

:claugh:

Same here. Most PC sales are cards you redeem as well. Not to mention similar cards for console games too are becoming the norm (mainly for DLC, but there are full games as such too).

[Space Coward]

You have every reason to be frustrated, but you're blaming the wrong people. Valve provides the keys for retailers, whether it gets used to stock Amazon or gets sold on the Humble Store/GMG. If you're getting cheap crap for packaging, the distributor is to blame.

THQ Nordic is pretty competent from my experience. My box for Quantum Break had nine discs, with the only download being 5GB of post launch patches. That said, on PC larger publishers love to cheap out on this. If The Division (an always-online RPG) can give you a full installation, Fallout 4 should definitely at least have you ready for launch day.

[cinedine]

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

Ganger님이 먼저 게시:

The PC selection at my local GAME store is pretty dire to say the least. There might have about 20 PC retail boxes and lots of over priced digital download games on sale and that it. I would say the PC gaming market has nearly made the full digital jump.

Ironically Retailers still hold a quite a grasp on the PC market despite not being their focus because of the cautiverio market that Retail console market represents.

If you're a publisher that releases both PC and console titles you don't want to bite the hand that feeds your console titles by undercutting them on PC digital sales.

And they will neverget common palce because there is no reason to have them.
It's driving me nuts when I shop for a notebook - either they have no optical drive at all or just a shaby DVD drives ...

And the worst thing is the shift to BluRay could have counter piracy back then. But of course they got bruned shiftingto DVD only when DVD burners where commonplace.And now people ask for 5+ discs in a box instead of single little disc like console games.

[Winged One]

Ganger님이 먼저 게시:

J4MESOX4D님이 먼저 게시:

Retailers don't want to waste shelf space, publishers don't want to waste money and packaging has to be kept down.

The PC selection at my local GAME store is pretty dire to say the least. There might have about 20 PC retail boxes and lots of over priced digital download games on sale and that it. I would say the PC gaming market has nearly made the full digital jump.

better than mine.. at my local EBGames they have an unsold copy of Diablo battle chest, some old yugioh game, hoyle card games, and a single copy of XCom enemy within..

aside from that, its just gaming keyboards, mice, headsets, and a huge rack of Steam cards..

The Hundredth Chlamydian님이 먼저 게시:

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

become mostly obsolete.

Not obsolete. Maybe in the future but the reason has to do with profits. It's quite obvious.
Meh. A Blu Ray drive costs around $80 same as a AAA video game and they are plug and play. "can't read" is right but everyone eventually upgrades.

except most computer manufacturers (be it prebuilts or a case for a custom) have been phasing out the actual bay in the chassis for the optical drive..

I supposed you could use a USB optical drive, but sorta hard to install a Blue Ray drive when the computer doesn't have a slot to put it

[Shredder]

"USB optical drive" I don't think USBs are optical. :D

[Winged One]

The Hundredth Chlamydian님이 먼저 게시:

"USB optical drive" I don't think USBs are optical. :D

you know what I meant: https://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=external+optical+drive&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1

[Spawn of Totoro]

theseraph1님이 먼저 게시:

The Hundredth Chlamydian님이 먼저 게시:

"USB optical drive" I don't think USBs are optical. :D

you know what I meant: https://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=external+optical+drive&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1

Too ban they don't work as well as an internal... and cost twice as much.

[Winged One]

Spawn of Totoro님이 먼저 게시:

theseraph1님이 먼저 게시:

you know what I meant: https://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=external+optical+drive&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1

Too ban they don't work as well as an internal... and cost twice as much.

no they really don't work as well (your reading Data over USB rather than SATA).. however, with alot of machines these days it would be your only option..



like I said in my first post, optical media is a dying format

[Spawn of Totoro]

theseraph1님이 먼저 게시:

no they really don't work as well (your reading Data over USB rather than SATA).. however, with alot of machines these days it would be your only option..

like I said in my first post, optical media is a dying format

True on both accounts. Eventualy storage devices may also die out too, then we will only be able to stream.

[Zekiran]

Black Blade님이 먼저 게시:

NS Plover님이 먼저 게시:

Personally, I think they should have to clearly indicate on the box that an internet connection is required to install the game.

I am pretty sure they do say that, sadly can't find the box of Prey I have here around to look at it

They do, and they have for many, many years.

But obviously most people haven't actually bothered to LOOK for that.

[Shredder]

Zekiran님이 먼저 게시:

Black Blade님이 먼저 게시:

I am pretty sure they do say that, sadly can't find the box of Prey I have here around to look at it

They do, and they have for many, many years.

But obviously most people haven't actually bothered to LOOK for that.

Oh it's there buried on the 12th line of micro print. <.<

[Zekiran]

It's literally at the bottom of every single game box. It's not microprint, it's right there.

Thing is: IT IS ALREADY WELL KNOWN and ACCEPTED that it will be online for activation, downloading patches and updates, and further content.

For a DECADE. It's been this way for a long, long time. People sometimes are just baffling - are you guys living in the 90s? When this wasn't a thing? Because for the 14 years that Steam has existed as a platform for distribution this is the way of the world. If your internet is crap, that's not their fault nor their problem. If you dont' read the box, that's not their fault nor their problem.

[Shredder]

Zekiran님이 먼저 게시:

It's literally at the bottom of every single game box. It's not microprint, it's right there.

Thing is: IT IS ALREADY WELL KNOWN and ACCEPTED that it will be online for activation, downloading patches and updates, and further content.

For a DECADE. It's been this way for a long, long time. People sometimes are just baffling - are you guys living in the 90s? When this wasn't a thing? Because for the 14 years that Steam has existed as a platform for distribution this is the way of the world. If your internet is crap, that's not their fault nor their problem. If you dont' read the box, that's not their fault nor their problem.

I looked at my boxed copy of Asscreed from 2010 and it was like 0.25 point printed on the BACK so... I don't know how well it's presented now. Don't give a ♥♥♥♥ really but the online warning was small as ♥♥♥♥ a while back.

[YoWutSup]

The Hundredth Chlamydian님이 먼저 게시:

Ganger님이 먼저 게시:

The PC selection at my local GAME store is pretty dire to say the least. There might have about 20 PC retail boxes and lots of over priced digital download games on sale and that it. I would say the PC gaming market has nearly made the full digital jump.

Yeah it's sad consoles have taken over the EB Games in my area. I remember in early 2000s there was a wall of pc games now I don't even bother walking into the stores.

Yea, I remember those days. The guy running the EB games store at metro Phoenix was purposely loading his shelves with PC games because he literally played everything and could answer just about any question for any game on all platforms. It was pretty impressive.

[Winged One]

Yo Wut Sup님이 먼저 게시:

The Hundredth Chlamydian님이 먼저 게시:

Yeah it's sad consoles have taken over the EB Games in my area. I remember in early 2000s there was a wall of pc games now I don't even bother walking into the stores.

Yea, I remember those days. The guy running the EB games store at metro Phoenix was purposely loading his shelves with PC games because he literally played everything and could answer just about any question for any game on all platforms. It was pretty impressive.

yeah, the manager at my local EB Games was like that to back in the day.. I used to frequent the shop often enough that he would just hand me any extra copies of pre-order bonuses they were sent (you know, when pre-order bonuses were still interesting.. art books, posters, sound tracks, etc)