Steam Refund under Australian Consumer Law not being considered

[The Mighty Mushka]

I've now sent two refund requests for Ark: Survival Evolved based on the lack of optimisation and performance increases as were said to have been undertaken before leaving Early Access. This, under Australian Consumer Law, can be said to fall under the section that allows for refunds of a good where the advertised standard or substance of a good differs significantly from the goods received and which would have stopped the purchase had it been known.

I have less than two hours playtime (enough to determine the poor performance and optimisation) but purchased Ark over two weeks ago. This cut-off is not actually lawful as a barrier to refunds, and as Steam has been found to sell goods to Australians from within the Australian marketplace they fall under consumer protections.

Seeing as there is no direct line to support or for refund reviews (i'm pretty sure both refunds were knocked back by bots and not actually seen by a human), is there any help people can provide about direct contact? If there isn't any way for making sure an actual human is able to review the circumstances around the refund, I suppose I'll get the ball rolling with Consumer Protections. Obviously I see that as a last resort, but Steam is not making it easy to actually have such things addressed.

[Hanomaly]

Originally posted by Harry:

I suppose I'll get the ball rolling with Consumer Protections. Obviously I see that as a last resort, but Steam is not making it easy to actually have such things addressed.

Go for it :)

i'm sure Steam's lawyers would love to talk to your lawyers. Once you do that actual steam support won't talk to you anymore. Only Steam's legal department.

i also think you should know Steam's legal department is very likely far more aware of Australia's refund laws than you are aware of laws and the legalese of how they really apply versus how the layman (like you or i) might want to interpret the laws and how they apply.

[FFL2and3rocks]

Refunds are considered by humans, not bots. They don't take the time to give personalized responses to anyone because people complained that Steam Support is too slow.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Not sure what issue you are having, but when I reinstalled are the other day and played it after over 6 months of letting it be, it ran far better then I ever hoped.

Game loads far faster, used to take several minutes to load a local server, not it is done in less then 10 seconds.

Performance has greatly improved as well. I used to only get decent frame rate at medium, but now I can go high with a good and steady frame rate.

i5-4570 @ 3.2 ghz
Geforce 970 4GB
16GB RAM
Windows 10, 64bit

What are your system specs? What settings are you setting it to? Server or local game?

Move to the ARK forum where other users and/or developers can offer assistance.

[The Mighty Mushka]

Originally posted by Hanomaly:

Originally posted by Harry:

I suppose I'll get the ball rolling with Consumer Protections. Obviously I see that as a last resort, but Steam is not making it easy to actually have such things addressed.

Go for it :)

i'm sure Steam's lawyers would love to talk to your lawyers. Once you do that actual steam support won't talk to you anymore. Only Steam's legal department.

i also think you should know Steam's legal department is very likely far more aware of Australia's refund laws than you, some complaining customer are aware of laws and the legalese of how they really apply versus how the layman (like you or i) might want to interpret the laws.

Valve was fined 3 million dollars by the ACCC because their interpretation of Consumer Protections, what constitutes 'goods' and when they would be considered to be liable as a seller to the Australian market was judged as being misguided and wrong. What they conclude are their obligations were not what they were legally obliged to actually do. So no, I'm not sure they have a better or more complete understanding of refund laws if their interpretations have already been tested and found wanting.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Harry:

Valve was fined 3 million dollars by the ACCC because their interpretation of Consumer Protections, what constitutes 'goods' and when they would be considered to be liable as a seller to the Australian market was judged as being misguided and wrong. What they conclude are their obligations were not what they were legally obliged to actually do. So no, I'm not sure they have a better or more complete understanding of refund laws if their interpretations have already been tested and found wanting.

No, they were finded because they said so refunds and that was not allowed. Also, it is still in the court system so the verdict isn't final.

The ACCC actualy agreed with Valve's refund policy.

But this is beside the point. The product is working fine for many, so the product is not the issue. Please check your system and/or better explain the issue you are having so some assistance can be offered.

[Jakeo10]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by Harry:

Valve was fined 3 million dollars by the ACCC because their interpretation of Consumer Protections, what constitutes 'goods' and when they would be considered to be liable as a seller to the Australian market was judged as being misguided and wrong. What they conclude are their obligations were not what they were legally obliged to actually do. So no, I'm not sure they have a better or more complete understanding of refund laws if their interpretations have already been tested and found wanting.

No, they were finded because they said so refunds and that was not allowed. Also, it is still in the court system so the verdict isn't final.

The ACCC actualy agreed with Valve's refund policy.

Directly from the Judge overseeing the case as of January 2017:

“Under the Australian Consumer Law, all goods or services supplied to consumers come with automatic consumer guarantees that they are of acceptable quality and fit for the purpose for which they were sold. If they’re not, consumers have a right to a remedy. These consumer rights cannot be excluded, restricted or modified.”

“We will continue to take action to ensure Australian consumers benefit from these Australian Consumer Law guarantees, regardless of whether the business which supplies them is based in Australia or overseas.”

The Court has also ordered Valve to:

publish information on Australian consumer rights on their website for 12 months,
implement a consumer compliance program for their system and staff, and
not make any similar representations to Australian consumers for three years.

It's pretty clear Valve was told they have to adhere to Australian Consumer Law (ACL).

The game doesn't run well on any particular PC setup = they should assist with getting it working, if not, provide a remedy suitable (refund).

[Photek]

what garbage is this

you need a 1000 €/$ pc thats it and ark runs well

i see no issue with that

i am sure you can buy some good pc parts online, seems like in your region is noone with a pc store. or a pc at all.

the jobs for money are in the news paper, with money you can buy things like computer parts. or a pc if that is the issue.

if you need anything else use www.google.com

software sells hardware.

[Vesuvius]

Originally posted by Harry:

I've now sent two refund requests for Ark: Survival Evolved based on the lack of optimisation and performance increases as were said to have been undertaken before leaving Early Access. This, under Australian Consumer Law, can be said to fall under the section that allows for refunds of a good where the advertised standard or substance of a good differs significantly from the goods received and which would have stopped the purchase had it been known.

I have less than two hours playtime (enough to determine the poor performance and optimisation) but purchased Ark over two weeks ago. This cut-off is not actually lawful as a barrier to refunds, and as Steam has been found to sell goods to Australians from within the Australian marketplace they fall under consumer protections.

Seeing as there is no direct line to support or for refund reviews (i'm pretty sure both refunds were knocked back by bots and not actually seen by a human), is there any help people can provide about direct contact? If there isn't any way for making sure an actual human is able to review the circumstances around the refund, I suppose I'll get the ball rolling with Consumer Protections. Obviously I see that as a last resort, but Steam is not making it easy to actually have such things addressed.

The Valve refund exists Because of Australian consumer law.... it didnt before the ACCC took them to court... and won.

You have every right to challenge them as a private citizen... but if the ACCC no longer sees legal grounds for a challenge..... good luck.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Fainstrider:

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

No, they were finded because they said so refunds and that was not allowed. Also, it is still in the court system so the verdict isn't final.

The ACCC actualy agreed with Valve's refund policy.

Directly from the Judge overseeing the case as of January 2017:

“Under the Australian Consumer Law, all goods or services supplied to consumers come with automatic consumer guarantees that they are of acceptable quality and fit for the purpose for which they were sold. If they’re not, consumers have a right to a remedy. These consumer rights cannot be excluded, restricted or modified.”

“We will continue to take action to ensure Australian consumers benefit from these Australian Consumer Law guarantees, regardless of whether the business which supplies them is based in Australia or overseas.”

The Court has also ordered Valve to:

publish information on Australian consumer rights on their website for 12 months,
implement a consumer compliance program for their system and staff, and
not make any similar representations to Australian consumers for three years.

Prove that is the issue and it is not the OP's system.

How many users are currently playing just fine?

29,810 In-Game at the time of this posting.

The problem is that it is highly subjective. There are no standards for it, in reguards to PC games since it is no real help to the OP in getting the game running correctly.

If this is just going to be a thread about law, then I may as well lock it up.

[The Mighty Mushka]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by Harry:

Valve was fined 3 million dollars by the ACCC because their interpretation of Consumer Protections, what constitutes 'goods' and when they would be considered to be liable as a seller to the Australian market was judged as being misguided and wrong. What they conclude are their obligations were not what they were legally obliged to actually do. So no, I'm not sure they have a better or more complete understanding of refund laws if their interpretations have already been tested and found wanting.

No, they were finded because they said so refunds and that was not allowed. Also, it is still in the court system so the verdict isn't final.

"The Court held that the terms and conditions in the Steam subscriber agreements, and Steam’s refund policies, included false or misleading representations about consumers’ rights to obtain a refund for games if they were not of acceptable quality." - ACCC

The issue was not simply the lack of refunds, but the lack of refunds as it relates to consumer laws in Australia. That law includes valid reasons for a refund or a remedy, and is not solved by offering refunds with caveats like a two week grace period.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Harry:

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

No, they were finded because they said so refunds and that was not allowed. Also, it is still in the court system so the verdict isn't final.

"The Court held that the terms and conditions in the Steam subscriber agreements, and Steam’s refund policies, included false or misleading representations about consumers’ rights to obtain a refund for games if they were not of acceptable quality." - ACCC

The issue was not simply the lack of refunds, but the lack of refunds as it relates to consumer laws in Australia. That law includes valid reasons for a refund or a remedy, and is not solved by offering refunds with caveats like a two week grace period.

So I see you don't want help with the issue, just to argue. I wish you luck.

On a final note, only one hour on record and over two weeks since played. You have to at least try to get it working to make such claims.