Give me your thoughts on the ban of my credit card

[Slippyfish]

Ok look, I can use PayPal, a different credit card (which I do have but long ago decided that since it's credit limit is very high I will not use it online for any reason). So there you go, the issue I'm bringing here to the forums is not that I can't purchase things from Steam, it's about the fact that Steam has banned a credit card I have used since 1999 for all different reasons. I have used this card to make many purchases through Steam.

The ONLY issue ever with this card and Steam was a game I purchased for my son. We spent over 4 hours on the log-in screen of this game trying to get him in so he could play. After contacting the game devs and then Steam for help there was no way he could log in and all our attempts during these 4 hours did not work. I asked Steam to either get my son in the game and working or a refund. Plain and simple.

The next day Steam informed me they could not refund as it showed my son had "used" played the game already for over four hours. I thought "really"?You must be kidding me. I was mad. I called my bank and canceled payment for the game. Both my son and my Steam accounts were locked for 90 days. After the 90 day "punishment" I have tried to use my card. Nope, they are not accepting it and in fact are saying it's because of "unauthorized use". I'm thinking you have got to be kidding me.

Here is my ticket conversation so far with customer support. Give me your feedback and what you think. I am seriously considering never using Steam again at this point.

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Message from you on Mar 13, 2017 @ 9:25pm | 23 hours ago

As far as I know all information is correct as bank billing states. I do not know why this purchase for Black Wake will not go through. Any help is appreciated.

Message from Steam Support on Mar 14, 2017 @ 10:20am | 10 hours ago

This payment instrument has been banned in our system due to unauthorized use.

Steam Support is unable to provide further details regarding this matter or remove the ban on this specific payment instrument.

You will need to use an alternate credit card, account or other payment method to complete future transactions.

Best Regards,
Taylor

Message from you on Mar 14, 2017 @ 6:32pm | 2 hours ago
I see, thank you for your response. I see now that the issue would date back to the purchase (as a gift for my son) a game that we simply could not get to work. Steam refused a refund which I was absolutely entitled to so I canceled the payment. Now I have over a 6k credit line on this card. What would getting another credit card or using a different method do? Allow me, the customer to continue doing business with a company that stopped accepting payments from a source in which I have always used and once canceled payment because the service (a game) was not delivered as expected.

Buying games on Steam is like buying property. You only have the illusion that you own it. I will contemplate if I will do business with your company in the future. You should contemplate your business practices.

Message from you on Mar 14, 2017 @ 6:55pm | 1 hour and 43 minutes ago
At this point this matter is no longer about a game, it's about the ban on the card. I just called Chase bank and they informed me there has been no "unauthorized use" of the card and if there were, or ever will be they would call me. So that takes us back to Steam. You say the card in which I have used since 1999 is banned by Steam for unauthorized use. Who would know better about this issue Steam or Chase bank?

[Satoru]

My thoughts are:

Why are you magically surprised at the fact that your credit card is banned because you committed fraud?

Did you think your fraud would go unnoticed by steam?

Did you think your fraud would have no consequences?

The real world has consequences. When you commit financial fraud as you did, there are consequences for doing so.

You not liking them is not a problem

[FFL2and3rocks]

The refund policy is clear: 2 hours. You had 4 hours, so you didn't qualify for a refund. "I couldn't get the game to work" doesn't matter.

You should've taken no for an answer the first time.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

i stopped here...

"I called my bank and canceled payment for the game."

thats fraud.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6687-HJVM-8966

[Slippyfish]

Ok it's "fraud" . Wow, had no clue. I should be in Federal court under fraud charges! Steam is a joke and it seems to me you guys are as well. 2 hours? I giggled. Thank you all for helping make my mind up. Your input is (was) valued!

Edit:just went outside to have a smoke and think about this. I'm not an attorney but I have represented myself in court proceedings on three occasions. One of them being me suing the state of Indiana and a sheriff department there of. I have won all three times in court and now have a pending case going to the Indiana Supreme court concerning the custody of my son. I fully expect to win.

Fraud? I would love to see this go to court and I would love to represent myself! It never would though, the judge would throw it out the first time they seen it. Why? Because what I have done is not FRAUD under the consumer protection laws. In fact, just for giggles I'm going to call my bank tomorrow and stress how worried I am that I was informed by some (ignorant people, I'll just say people) that I have committed fraud. LMAO!!!!!!

[Slippyfish]

No replies to that?

[FFL2and3rocks]

What exactly was the problem with the game? And is the problem affecting anyone else?

People often complain that a game is "broken" or "not fit for purpose" when it works just fine for everyone else. There could be any number of conflicts with a person's computer that could cause a game to fail to run or connect. But they do make exceptions when there truly is a widespread problem with a game that affects everyone. I got a refund for that reason several years ago during their old "no refunds" policy.

[internaut]

Originally posted by cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

i stopped here...

"I called my bank and canceled payment for the game."

thats fraud.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6687-HJVM-8966

:qr:

The courts decide what "fraud" is, not a couch-judge, nor may Steam dictate what constitutes fraud. Only the judges and jurors can do that. Steam CAN, and do call it what they want and block any card from any purchase and that is their right. They don't have to sell to anyone and in Canada, don't need to have a reason.

The OP can take them to court, and that is where fraud or not will be decided.

Steam site is full of hundreds of rules and regulations, policies, and procedures that everyone is supposed to know. I fell in to the same predicament because I didn't understand this Steam system that seems to be operated by the Combine, but can make sense if one reads enough.

I empathize with the OP and would be upset too if I had only 2 hours to dload, install and test, and after several hours, as in my case once, unable to get a response from Steam. Fortunately, the game would not install, so I could not erroneously be accused of "fraud", or, in other words, couldn’t get a response in time before the hammer falls. 2 hours is just not fair unless Steam is prepared to respiond to a ticket within 1 1/2 hours to allow time for a query to be posted and responded to.

There is, as I discovered, a refund option buried where I couldn't find it at first. A bullying and rude response to my ticket mentioned a refund system, which I found and it worked great. I immediately got my refund and was immediately permitted to play the other games I bought before.

Do I like bullish companies like Steam? No. But it's their way of protecting their ass ets and piracy being what it was, and real fraud; I mean REAL, not Steam's version, is rampant so they need to protect themselves. I get it. In so doing, they are also protecting our accounts and our games we do get to play when servers are up ;)

Steam is what it is and they have the control, power and means. If one doesn’t like it, they can buy a different game from somewhere else. It’s how the business needs to operate. Just sayin…

[Snapjak]

It's still fraud.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback_fraud

[🎴 The Great Escape 🎴]

The refund policy is very clear, as stated above by someone else. You did not qualify for a refund because you went over the time limit. However, another user has pointed out that there are times when Steam may make an exception, depending on what the issue is.

All sorts of information is available on Steam for people to read. It is not Steam's fault when those people fail to read that information.

[Arghaab]

When you make any purchase on Steam, this message appears :
"By clicking the button below to proceed you agree that Valve provides you immediate access to digital content as soon as you complete your purchase, without waiting the 14-day withdrawal period. Therefore, you expressly waive your right to withdraw from this purchase."

You also have to click a box that explains you the contract made between you and Valve with every purchase, including
"You can request a refund for nearly any purchase on Steam—for any reason. Maybe your PC doesn't meet the hardware requirements; maybe you bought a game by mistake; maybe you played the title for an hour and just didn't like it.

It doesn't matter. Valve will, upon request via help.steampowered.com, issue a refund for any reason, if the request is made within fourteen days of purchase, and the title has been played for less than two hours"

I understand that from your point of vue, it was very frustrating to see your son not being able to enjoy his purchase, and, on top of that, to see Valve refuse your refund request. But these rules are made for a reason, and it was your responsability to acknowledge them before making a purchase.
As a customer you have rights, but Valve also has rights. In this case the right to deny the refund.

The act of withdrawing from your purchase constitues therefore a fraud. Are you gonna be sued or anything? No. Valve would have no interest to do that even if they can. But it's entirely normal for them to protect themselves from such things in the future.

[The Giving One]

Originally posted by Slippyfish:

Ok it's "fraud" . Wow, had no clue. I should be in Federal court under fraud charges! Steam is a joke and it seems to me you guys are as well. 2 hours? I giggled. Thank you all for helping make my mind up. Your input is (was) valued!

The policy is clear (at least to us), but you though you would just circumvent that and now you are paying the price. Why is Steam a joke ? The policy is clear, and you did not qualify for a refund. Simple.

http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/

You get 2 hours. Then, it is done on a case-by-case basis. They said no to your case. But you did not want to accept that.

Originally posted by Slippyfish:

We spent over 4 hours on the log-in screen of this game trying to get him in so he could play.

So you should have only spent 2 hours or less on the log in screen. Being on the "log in" screen, and the game is still running.

Hence, you are playing it. Playtime is playtime. If the .exe is running, you are playing it. Period.

It is perfectly normal to consider your payment mentod not trusted now.

If someone owed you money, and used this card to pay you but then cancel it, would you then accept it in the future from that person in order for them to pay you money that is owed ?

Of course not. So it is perfectly normal for a business to function the same way.

[Slippyfish]

I do truly appreciate the logical posts here. What I'm going on here is simply principal. Logical principle. The fact remains that I have at this time no problem buying anything from Steam. I have many ways to do so. The logical argument I have here is that they have banned my card for AND I QUOTE

" This payment instrument has been banned in our system due to unauthorized use "

There has been no unauthorized use of this card. Unauthorized use would be someone else using the card without permission and things of that nature. This has never happened and confirmed by my bank.

To address the fraud allegations further, yes, Steam may call it what ever they wish and can except or deny payment from any source of payment or any individual as they see fit. But in the end, PayPal, all banks and all other entities of payment fall toward the consumers side on digital non-perishable items. They do not insure nor guarantee anything to the seller of digital media. If a consumer purchases any form of digital media they are free to dispute any discrepancies. faults or non-delivery of said product and refund is automatically given to the consumer if desired. That's why this is not fraud and would never stand in court.

My card is banned for a falsified reason, plain and simple. If they told me something like "your card is banned because you made a charge-back and we don't allow that" I wouldn't have an argument here. It's principal, it's logic that I stand on.

[The Giving One]

"What if I disputed the purchase because of issues with the product?"

We encourage users to work Steam Support for technical issues with products. Users may also need to contact the developer/publisher of the product for specific technical support.
If issues are unable to be resolved through support, users are encouraged to submit a refund request through Steam.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6687-HJVM-8966

Did they authorize you to do a chargeback ? No ?

Then your use of the card in the way you used it was "unauthroized use".

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

3. BILLING, PAYMENT AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONS

B. Responsibility for Charges Associated With Your Account

As the Account holder, you are responsible for all charges incurred, including applicable taxes, and all purchases made by you or anyone that uses your Account, including your family or friends. If you cancel your Account, Valve reserves the right to collect fees, surcharges or costs incurred before cancellation. Any delinquent or unpaid Accounts must be settled before Valve will allow you to register again.

[Spawn of Totoro]

A chargeback is done for unauthorized use and is not a valid refund method. When you do a chargeback, the company loses that money + $20-$200 per a chargeback (depending on the bank). Valve black lists that payment method in order to protect it's self for future attacks and loss from those attacks. There is only one kind of chargeback. There is no distinction between a user wanting a refund or a fraudulent charge and both are treated the same way.

The type of fraud you commited cost retailers $11.8 billion a year.

When you made the account, you agreed to the SSA:
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

Valve was right blacklist the card and needs to do so in order to protect it's self and Steam.

If a company wished to go to court, then yes they would win. However, the cost to do so would more often then not, out weigh their gain. That is why most companies will simply blacklist the payment method and let it be.

I suggest discussing this with a lawer and not in the forums. This is not the place for it.